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Mike Moll Podcast Transcription
[00:02:55]Kris Ward: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day and today I am excited with another great guest we have is Mike Moll. Now, Mike, welcome to the show, Mike.
[00:03:06]Mike Moll: Thanks Kris. I appreciate it.
[00:03:08]Kris Ward: Okay. We’d like to dive in here really quickly. No fluff. No must just get to the good stuff. And so today we’re going to talk about LinkedIn and we’re going to really explore it, how we’re going to do this.
[00:03:19] I think dive deeper than we have before on the show and talk about outreach. And is LinkedIn somewhere where you should spend a little bit of money, because I’m all about things that work efficiently, you know, a lot of the biggest platforms in the world that are the most effective are free or next to free.
[00:03:35] So we really want to be purposeful and strategic when we start investing. So Mike, why don’t you talk to us or start us off? And what you think is like, what should we be doing on LinkedIn and why should we be doing it?
[00:03:56]Mike Moll: Absolutely. So, for a little bit of context, for me, I’m primarily reaching out business to business.
[00:03:56] So I’m trying to get a hold of a decision maker at a particular company who holds a certain role, that they do a certain service within that business. And LinkedIn genuinely is the most robust in terms of data about organizational size. It’s where people are actually honest about what they do. And what I mean by that is if you filter people by their job title on Facebook, there’s
[00:04:21] I think 20 million people that work at Facebook because you can self-identify where you work 30, 40 jobs. I mean, it’s a bit of a mess, whereas LinkedIn, because it’s a professional network because people are trying to be there to be recruited or meet other people in their space. They’re pretty honest about who they are. It’s very direct.
[00:04:42]Kris Ward: Yeah. Okay. So our audience are entrepreneurs reaching out to other entrepreneurs. So what should we be doing?
[00:04:50]Mike Moll: Great. So I think the number one thing is, LinkedIn has all the information, but again, on the free platform, is it streamlined enough?
[00:05:00] Is it effective enough to get to the people that you want to at scale? In my opinion, the answer is no. What I like to do is I like to use a tool called LinkedIn Sales Navigator. So it’s about a hundred bucks a month. But I find the amount of time it saves me on searching and compiling lists of people that I want to reach out to. It’s always, always, always worth the money.
[00:05:24]Kris Ward: Okay. So let me just stop you there for a second and pause you. So I know this free, and then I think there’s two platforms. There’s sales navigator, and I think there is another paid option. Is it less robust than sales navigator? Could you, are you familiar with that? Can you distinguish that for us?
[00:05:42]Mike Moll: Yeah. So they all work very, very, very similar. I think there are four paid products. So there’s Sales Navigator. There’s a recruiter. And then there’s at least one other one. I have never, I’ve never used it. What I know is they all are about 90% the same.
[00:06:02] And then there’s 10% variation in the function of them because they’re being used for a different function. So Sales Navigator, for example, is dedicated to doing sales outreach. So it comes with the ability to search in great detail. It comes with the ability to send messages to people you’re not connected with, et cetera.
[00:06:21] Versus recruiter, which is more for if you’re in the recruitment field, you’re trying to build the network of people that you could play gigs into a job. And so the products that they make are dedicated to the sales or the profession that you’re in, they are really specially made.
[00:06:36]Kris Ward: Okay. I got it now. Okay. So I, and this is, I’ll look this up and after, cause I knew there was, I didn’t even count recruiter cause obviously I’m not recruiting and then sales navigator for sure. And I thought there was one before sales navigator. I could never tell the difference. So let’s… that’s okay.
[00:06:52]Mike Moll: So that one is LinkedIn Premium. My apologies.
[00:06:55]Kris Ward: Oh, okay. There we go. So what’s the difference between Premium and Sales navigator?
[00:07:00]Mike Moll: So similar to a lot of… I’m comparing it to dating apps because that’s what they do know. They kind of say, ‘Hey, a bunch of people are looking at you on your basic one, right on your fruit plant.
[00:07:09] A bunch of people are looking at you’, you know, from these types of job titles, from these types of areas, but they’re not giving you who the person is necessarily. LinkedIn Premiums as, okay. We’re going to let you send a handful of messages for free every month to people you’re not connected with. We’re also going to tell you every single person that
[00:07:26] looks at your content. We’re going to look, show you every single person that looks at your profile. So if you’ve got somebody that’s keeping an eye on you, you can easily vet and figure out who that person is. That’s the difference between free and premium. It’s access to who’s engaging with you.
[00:07:39]Kris Ward: Okay. So on the free they’ll say, oh, you had whatever 45 people review your profile.
But here’s two of them and the premium they’ll give you that. But if we’re coming into the premium, which I don’t think there’s a big price difference between premium sales navigator, what you’re suggesting is we should just go for big, go home and get the sales navigator because then we can do outreach.
[00:08:00] And we could, in my case, I would maybe then be looking at PR people or researching things where I could be writing articles or, you know, producers of shows for more media opportunities. So I could do that in sales navigator but I couldn’t on premium.
[00:08:17]Mike Moll: Correct.
[00:08:18]Kris Ward: Okay.
[00:08:19]Mike Moll:And so, and it’s not to say that you can not on premium and free. The degree of difficulty is exponentially higher and the amount of time it takes is crazy. Sales navigator literally takes everything into a 32nd plug. And you’re done. You have all the data you’ll ever need.
[00:08:38]Kris Ward: So it’s not like I can’t cut and sew my own clothes, but why would I? It’s a bit time consuming, right?
[00:08:44]Mike Moll: Yeah. And if you, I don’t know if you’ve ever done a search for like, so for example, when you do a search on the free one for a certain job title in a certain niche, you know, it’ll pull up the different filters within your search and you can kind of go through it, but it’s very scattered and you’ll get searches that are outside of your filtered rules or what you actually want, because it’s just not organized well, and it’s designed to not be organized well so that you feel like you need to buy it.
[00:09:10]Kris Ward: Right. It’s a company too. They want money. They want to keep moving forward. They’ve got competitors as well as we all know. So all right. So we’re going to make a purchase. Let’s assume we are, because this is one place we say, okay, let’s get serious. And tell me, what should we be doing and what works well?
[00:09:30]Mike Moll: Yeah, absolutely. So, my biggest thing with it is its ability to filter down people in the most specific way you can, as in terms of your buyer persona. So as an example, if I go in and I say, I’m selling to VPs and directors of marketing in companies that are in biotech
[00:09:57] who are located in the United States whose company size is over a hundred people who have gone to a particular school. I mean, it’s incredible. So a couple of main things that you can do with it is obviously job title, job function. You can also narrow that down within an individual company, which is, again, that’s a very narrow scope, but you can say what industry you want their business to be in.
[00:10:23] You can say what company size, like the headcount of the company. You can also layer in education level. You can layer in a ton of different variables to really narrow down like the exact person you’re trying to reach.
[00:10:37]Kris Ward: Okay, let’s say obviously we’re entrepreneurs, as I mentioned before, so we’re dealing with… I’m an entrepreneur and I’m going to be looking for my ideal client or people really constantly, just working too much.
You guys all know that, I’m all about your business should support your life instead of consume it. So I might be dealing with entrepreneurs that have a team of zero to five, have been in business at least five years. Cause we don’t traditionally deal with new companies for a variety of reasons.
[00:11:03] So I’m doing all that, but you know what? My back goes up a little bit. Cause that’s great. We filter down and I don’t know if this is the area you cover, but now I hear this all great. Am I going to be one of those annoying people on LinkedIn before you say hello? And they’re giving me this great big pitch, which I’ll tell you.
[00:11:20] I just disconnect from like, before they’re selling me before they say hello, or they say hello in a sort of I don’t want to say seductive, but they’re luring me in with some hello. And then I say, hello back. And then all of a sudden, here we go. We’re off to the races with selling me. I just disconnect. So I’m paying for this because it can do all these cool things. But when I get to it, am I just going to be annoying?
[00:11:43]Mike Moll: This is my favorite part of the conversation. I think the vast majority of people. And I see it. It’s so funny. There’s these cycles. Cause you can always see who sold an online course, how to do LinkedIn outreach because the messaging cadence and there’s like, oh, okay.
[00:11:59] You know, these people all came from this person, write the script for them to use. And I mean, it’s infuriating. And when you have founder or owner or CEO in your job title, I mean, they just, they come in a mile a minute, so I understand that pain and I understand the frustration there cause I perceive it too.
[00:12:17] So something I like to do, it’s the least scalable, but most effective marketing method I’ve ever used. And I’ve actually used it in my coaching to help other people grow their business, but I’ve actually used it to grow all of my own companies. Okay. So what I do is I send them a video. Okay.
Now, I’ve tried a lot of different ways. I’ve sent.. I was trying to calculate it a few months ago. I think I’ve sent over 10,000 videos.
[00:12:44]Kris Ward: Whole. Wow. Okay.
[00:12:46]Mike Moll: I actually had it to a point where I could do 40 a day. So recently, like okay 40 times that I was like, okay, this has been a lot.
[00:12:55] There’s been a lot of videos going out. So here’s kind of like what I’ve distilled down to the most effective way and the best delivery. So one cool thing about social media platforms, including LinkedIn.When you’re in the messaging function, you have the ability to send them a text. You also, if you click the little attachment button, right beside where you enter the text, it pops up with a whole bunch of different options.
[00:13:22] So you can attach pictures. You can attach a video, you can record a video, you can record an audio message. And so all you do is you either click. I sometimes will just do it on audio, but sometimes with video, click the little bit…
[00:13:35]Kris Ward: I’ve done audio, and those are really well-received and I’ve done. I’m known for my videos.
[00:13:40] I’ll tell you, Mike. But what I’ve been doing is I’ve been using them on BombBomb. And so I’ll send a video and I’ve got a little thing with their name on it. So they know it’s custom. So I’m all about the custom videos. So why would I want to use LinkedIn video instead of my BombBomb video?
[00:13:56]Mike Moll: Got it. Yeah. And I mean, look, they can both work and if you can hold them on LinkedIn and you have to send an email, you’re stuck with BombBomb like, cause it’s got to get out there somehow.
[00:14:04] But the reason I like it is on first contact, if I don’t know who you are and you’re just some random that’s reached out and I’m expecting something bad to happen. Cause that’s really what it’s come down to Sandy, right? Yeah. Either a pitch or something. Some negative interaction. So by sending somebody a link, I think people get a little bit reluctant, a little trigger shy to click on a link.
[00:14:28]Kris Ward: Now mine, let me just jump in there with the BombBomb. There is a gift, that’s the whole thing. So the gift pops up and they see me holding their name. So I’m not advocating for BombBomb. I just want to know. So I think obviously LinkedIn would have a video, so they’d have features that would benefit them versus my BombBomb video.
[00:14:45] So I’m all about the video. How can we tweak this even more? So what would be the advantage of me using the LinkedIn video?
[00:14:53]Mike Moll: I just think so. So I think what I’ve seen in terms of attaching versus recording in platform, the video is just as like, it’s just a massive, I mean, it takes up the whole screen and again, the way that you’ve set the gift is, is great with your, with the name with saying hi, so that I think that’s, you know, that’s 90% of what needs to be done to make it effective.
[00:15:16] But there’s just something about that big play button, the video can be as long as you want it to be. So mine are usually between 40 seconds and a minute and 20 seconds. When I go through my system of outreach…
[00:15:27]Kris Ward: It pops up differently.
[00:15:29]Mike Moll: It pops up differently. It pops up really tall with a big play button and it just feels to me when I see it, it feels very inviting.
[00:15:36]Kris Ward: Okay. ’cause then you kind of have to hit play versus go into the email. Okay. So we’re doing the video. I like that. I would’ve never thought to do that. And again, the audio I’ve sent audio all the time and people make it seem like I sat down and I had a Quill and I wrote a big, like, it’s this big thing.
[00:15:51] They so appreciate it. But first of all, it’s quicker. And then they hear your voice and there is a more of a person to person thing. And they’re hearing it in your tone versus the tone they’re reading it where, oh, she’s trying to sell me something, whatever. Right. Okay. So we’re going to send video or audio.
[00:16:05] We’re going to do that. Now I, this is our first contact. So how are you going to charm me, Mike?
[00:16:12]Mike Moll: Great question. Not a problem. So, there’s kind of, there’s five main pieces I like to encompass and incorporate into this. One is to say Hi. I think a lot of people…
[00:16:26]Kris Ward: Write that down, people. Hello? Yeah, it sounds silly, but it’s important, you know?
[00:16:33]Mike Moll: Yeah. And then, there’s two pieces that I like to add onto the high. So my first 20 seconds looks like this, you know, ‘Hey Kris, I just wanted to reach out and thank you for connecting.’ So that’s the second part. Thank you for connecting, which is thank you for the time that you’re going to spend watching this video.
[00:16:49] But I think, people’s time is precious and you haven’t earned their time yet. And here’s the thing. The psychological trick of a video with a button is like you, can’t not push that button. You’re going to push. Everyone pushes the button. Cause what is this going to be? Is it going to be like, I don’t know.
[00:17:08] So, the temptation is there. So to me it’s like thanking them for their time and their energy to participate. And what I do is I just say, Hey, I just wanted to thank you for connecting with me and you can’t send the video unless you’re connected with the person. Right. So taking the time to connect, thank them for connecting.
[00:17:25] And then what I like to do is I like to disarm them. So automatically they think it’s a sales pitch, they’ve got their backup, they’re waiting for the ball to drop. They’re thinking, what does this person want? Right. So, I never denied that I’m trying to sell anything. But what I do is I disarm them in a bit of a different way.
[00:17:43] ‘Hey, I’m sure you get a ton of automated lazy outreach messages on here all the time. I just wanted to stand out and do something different.’ So, I kind of take their mind off of like the fact that I’m going to pitch. Cause I am pitching. Now I’m not going to pitch a certain right now. I’m going to pitch them on a conversation.
[00:18:02] It’s really important to keep this video short, keep this video concise and keep the goal just to get them to the next level, whether that’s, ‘I want to send you some more information about this, whether that’s, I want to book a call with you, whether that’s, you know, whatever that thing is.’ But I think where a lot of people get stuck, especially with these long form outreaches, is they tell them how their products sell amazing and how they got it.
[00:18:26] They have to use it. And then, you know, when are we going to talk about it? And it’s like, well…
[00:18:31]Kris Ward: Okay, so hold on. So I hear you. So we’re going to say with the first 20 seconds, you’re going to say hello, because that does matter. I mean, I’ve even seen jokes like that, where you’re like, Hey, whatever, he’s watching a TV show and somebody likes somebody and like, what do I say?
[00:18:43] Go say hello? Like, hello, but we always skip the hello. So say hello. Thank you for opening this. We’re going to disarm them. Now, I’m not sure if I got over excited and got distracted with your messaging there, but we’re going to disarm them. But you said, yes, we will. We’re not.. we’re going to be honest. Okay.
[00:18:59] We’re not going to be like the other lazy people sending a generic stuff, but we are going to be honest that whatever we have something for them, how do we lead into that effectively without saying we’re not like them, but here I am like them?
[00:19:13]Mike Moll: Got it. Yeah. And so I leave that out of the disarm part. The disarm is just like, ‘Hey, I thought I’d come up with a unique way of reaching out to you.
[00:19:20] So whatever.’ So that’s kind of like first 20 seconds, then I think what’s most important next in sales is they don’t need to understand you. They don’t know you. They don’t care about you. They don’t care about your service or your product. In sales, people need to feel understood. What I do now is I spend the next, at least 20 seconds.
[00:19:45] So the majority of this video is focused on them. Okay. Now we’re going to make some assumptions. But we want to keep those assumptions as safe as possible because we do not want to get too narrow and have them say, well, that’s not my exact case. So that’s now your credibility.
[00:20:05]Kris Ward: So in my case, my clients tend to do well, they look fine online, but they are still working way more hours than they should.
[00:20:15] And they always think once they get past this next thing, right. So it’s almost like they’ve got this dark secret. Cause they’re working later at night when the family goes to bed, they’re getting up earlier in the morning and you know, they’re still grinding it out way more than they should be at this point.
[00:20:28] Right. So. You know, wanting to get to the real work and they’re trapped in the web of admin. So would I lead in when I get to that point? I guess I’m trying to figure out, cause I know how to do it when I’m talking to somebody here, but when I’m now in this video, Ihow do I soften that? So it doesn’t go slide into a sales. Like I would in a sales call?
[00:20:51]Mike Moll: Yeah. So there’s a couple of things. To me, the two most effective tools are people like you and feel felt found. So those are two sales mechanisms, because here’s the thing. If you tell someone that they’re struggling with this, they’re going to get their backup.
[00:21:08] They’re going to rebel. People don’t like being told what to do. People don’t like being told what they need. They’d like, I can make that decision for me. Never take away the autonomy by saying, you’re struggling with this, or you’re probably struggling with this because they’re like, no, they’re instantly feeling rebellious about your statement and they don’t want to do it.
[00:21:29] So the way I would kind of broach this is, ‘Hey, the reason that I’m reaching out is that we work with companies that are of your size. In your type of industry. So it’s like, okay, you’ve got experience with people that my size company, my industry, so that’s okay. Great. It means that you know how to service this type of thing without saying that you do, you know, we generally work with people in this industry of companies of this size.
[00:21:54] A majority of the people that we work with, tend to feel in that fourth and fifth year of business, that they are feeling a little bit stuck. They feel like they’re working too many hours and they have struggled with trying to get out of that grind. And what we do is we actually help guide them through that process, build systems, that, that, that, that. So you’re not saying they are people like them.
[00:22:23]Kris Ward: Which I’m fine within the sales process. I just didn’t know here. How do I do that without like making a soft, so that was a really great example. So it’s often fluid, so we go, okay. Try people like you trying to still get out of the grind and then do I offer them something in that video?
[00:22:42]Mike Moll: Yeah. So the second last part, and again, it’s short is what about you? Why you, why should they talk to you? So keep in mind that all you’re doing here is you’re selling a conversation. You want to, you want them to communicate with you, whether you call it a discovery call, whether you call it, sending them an info pack, whatever that thing is, just that one next step, not getting them to sign up with you, just that one next step.
[00:23:07] So, ‘Hey, if any of this resonates with you. And you wanted to learn more about the way that we do it?’ Kind of hears like a ten second spiel. ‘What we do is we take a really deep dive in. We build systems, we get the data. If this sounds interesting to you, I would love to continue the conversation.’
[00:23:26] So you’re giving a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of what you do, but you really want to simplify it and you want to contextualize it to one to two sentences, max. Pitches should be in that block because what you don’t want to do is the more you explain, and the more you express how your product and your service works, the more objections start popping up into their head that you can’t answer because they’re just listening to a one-way message.
[00:23:52] If you’re talking to them on the phone, they could say, oh, I don’t think I need that. And then you can dive in and dissect. If you give all those things in a video, it’s the same thing. If your sales page is too long, right. Someone comes in and they said, oh, well, well, this isn’t me and that’s not me. So this whole thing is not me.
[00:24:07] So giving them really consolidated. We help people by doing this. One to two sentences. Let them feel a little bit of a mystery of, okay, well that sounds intriguing, but what happens? What do you do? How does it work? Right? That’s how you get them on the phone. That’s the hook is leave them wanting more because they resonate with the problem.
[00:24:29] Your solution sounds interesting, but there’s not enough information for them to make a decision that’s where you want to leave them to get them to say yes to a call.
[00:24:37]Kris Ward: I think you do a couple of things very well. I’m sure you do many, but I’ll point out the last couple. And I think what you’re saying here is first of all, there’s many things that I know to do or not do in the sales process, but we have all been sort of amped up on video time.
[00:24:52] Like you only got so much seconds and it’s really great if you do videos. So if you’re not careful, the video hit play and all of a sudden you’re like, oh, like someone Xena warrior princess here, just like words are coming out because you think, oh, I’ve got 30 seconds to get their attention. And it’s a blast coming at you.
[00:25:08] So I think your dialogue here makes it a very smooth and relaxed transition, which is really what I want. Anyone wants. I have no interest in convincing and that’s why we don’t work with new businesses. For so many reasons, but one is, I’m not here to convince you of anything and we many times have an application to work with us.
[00:25:29] So, it just doesn’t work when you try to drag somebody in, you know, to get that next sale, it doesn’t work. So the people who’ve been in business five, eight years know that now. Right? So, what you’re doing here through this process is you are making it very relaxed and very inviting. So we got some really soft language that will protect us from just doing that video blitz and getting all hopped up because you’ve got them to open it.
[00:25:58] Now, when you say here at the end, we’re selling a conversation. So if this sounds like you, have you Mike, in the past, you take them just to, if this sounds like you let me know, and we could do a strategy call and we dive deeper, or then you mentioned a video with five things that we do, we take them right.To try to get that contact. Is that too much of a leap through this video for you?
[00:26:21]Mike Moll: So I always pitch a phone call or next steps conversation because for me a discovery call is pertinent to know if this person’s anywhere. Like, that’s the only way I’m going to know if I can work with the person. So what I generally tend to do
[00:26:38] Pardon me as I say that, I say, so the last piece is to ask for the conversation, but again, it’s that idea of leaving the autonomy to them,a lot I’ll try and force the issue and say, ‘Hey, you know, this is perfect for businesses like you.’ You got to do this and or they even push the like, ‘Hey, you know, let’s talk next Wednesday, what works better?’
[00:27:02] Three or five? Like that, that corner and honestly, I just think that’s such an old school way to do it. Not to say it doesn’t work, not to say it cannot be effective, but it’s just, here’s the thing when I’ve sent a video and I say, ‘Hey, you know, I don’t know if this connects with you. But if it does, I’d love to have a conversation about what we do and if we’re a great fit, I would love to look at working together.
[00:27:28] And if we can’t help you do what you’re trying to do. At least,you could grab some free information from me.’ Use it as like, almost like a little..
[00:27:37]Kris Ward: Mike time is flying by so fast that you were almost at a time, but I do want to ask two quick questions. One is if they don’t respond or whatever, do you follow up with them?
[00:27:47]Mike Moll: Yeah, so I do a two and then a three and then a four week followup. So I put it in my CRM after two weeks real quick poke and then three weeks and then four weeks, I don’t like rapid follow up.
[00:27:59]Kris Ward:Okay. And when you follow up, is it just a softer, shorter version of what you just did?
[00:28:06]Mike Moll: I usually just go to text from there. I’ve put in the…
[00:28:08]Kris Ward: Okay. And when you say texts, just, ‘Hey, I want to make sure you saw the previous video or?’ Okay.
[00:28:06]Mike Moll: My and my last one. So I’ve got one follow up, one follow up to my third followup, which actually is probably the highest converting follow-up is, ‘Hey, you may have seen this. You may have not either way.
[00:28:29] I don’t want to be that person on here that pesters you. So I will leave the ball in your court. If you decide that this is something you want to chat with me about letting me know.’ And I say, I’m not, as soon as I say, I’m not going to reach out to you anymore, then they’re like, oh, well, hold on. I don’t want to miss out on the opportunity.
[00:28:44]Kris Ward: That’s how my husband got me. He was like, okay, I’ve asked you enough times. This is, this is the last time the ball’s in your court. I’m not doing this again. I’m like, oh, okay, hold on. Let me think. Okay. So then, okay, so just to go back a quick loop to the front. When we talked about the premium, the premium from we got LinkedIn for your LinkedIn premium gives you the opportunity to reach out and see who’s checking out your page and you can, there’s this whole credit system where you can reach out to people you’re not connected with emails, but in order to do this process, well, no, you, I guess you can do the video in any of these, but the sales navigator gives us the information to make sure these videos are effective.
[00:29:22]Mike Moll: Yes. It allows you to really pinpoint the exact way you want to reach.
[00:29:28]Kris Ward: Well, fantastic, Mike, this was time well spent for us. I have to say, oh my heavens. Okay, man. I’m just trying to figure out how, what can we do? People will have to come up with a new title and have you back so awesome. All right, Mike, where can they find more of your brilliance?
[00:29:44]Mike Moll: You can find me on Instagram at, The Mike Moll or you can find me on LinkedIn, send me a video. Mike Moll, M. O. L. L.
[00:29:52]Kris Ward:Well, that was funny. After 25 minutes of LinkedIn, you mentioned Instagram first.
[00:29:57]Mike Moll: You know what it is? It’s because it was, I travel full-time with my work and I like, I have this, I don’t know.
[00:30:01] I’m just so active on it. Cause it’s fun. But yeah, I would go to LinkedIn I guess.
[00:30:05]Kris Ward: Gotcha. Gotcha. All right, Mike. Well, thank you so much. We so appreciate it. And everyone else, we will see you in the next episode.
END[00:30:13]Mike Moll: All right. Thank you.