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This week’s episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day Podcast is sponsored by Win The Hour, Win The Day’s Signature Coaching Program the Winners Circle. Kris Ward who helps entrepreneurs to stop working so hard interviews, Kim Kiel.


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Kim Kiel Podcast Transcription


[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day, and I am your host, Kris Ward. And today we have Kim Kiel in the house. She is a sales copy and brand voice expert. And today she’s going to talk to us about the hello formula. Oh my gosh. Can’t wait to dive into this. So first, hello, Kim.

[00:00:17] Kim Kiel: Hello, Kris. Nice to be here.

[00:00:21] Kris Ward: Okay, so let’s start off with the, we like to get right to it on this show. Let’s start off with the hello formula. What is it? Where do we use it? Why do we need it? Let’s go.

[00:00:32] Kim Kiel: Everyone struggles with writing their website.

[00:00:36] All of us go through it. Even some of the most gifted copywriters are really challenged to write about themselves. And especially that about page is super tricky because we’re like, we’re writing about ourselves, but are we really writing about ourselves? Are we writing about our audience? And in fact, the about page is the second most visited webpage on your website, typically. So I have researched all kinds of different formulas and frameworks to help people write that about page. And I created my own, which is called the hello framework because you want to have the met hello. And it breaks down the different sections that you want to have on your about page.

[00:01:15] And by having this formula or a framework to organize the copy or the words that you put on that about page, you’ll make sure that you’re capturing all of the information your audience needs to feel confident, to build trust with you and to want to be connected with you. So I’m okay. Before we dive into that, I have to close the loop.

[00:01:37] Kris Ward: The, you said it’s the second most visited page. It was the first, the

[00:01:40] landing page.

[00:01:41] Kim Kiel: Yeah. First would be your homepage typically, obviously if you’re running ads, it’ll go to whatever page the ad is direct.

[00:01:47] Kris Ward: And then the second most page, and I have to say, I was surprised. I really just think the about us page, I’ve put it up there because one should have it up there or whatever, but I would have thought it was like.

[00:02:00] I don’t know. It’s like the bio at the back of my book, who the heck really reads that? Like I thought they might skim it. Or I really, I guess I feel in this day of social media that somehow they already knew who I was and that’s why they’re on my page. So I wouldn’t have given it the ranking that you’re saying it has. That’s news to me.

[00:02:17] Kim Kiel: Yeah. So there are a few studies that show that the about page is the second most visited page. From my own experience, if I land on a business coaches page or I land on a LinkedIn specialist page, what’s going to differentiate them from all the other business coaches, LinkedIn coaches, time management coaches.

[00:02:35] So I go to the about page typically next to get a sense of. Who this person is, what’s their story, what’s their street cred. And then if I’m like, okay, I like the jive of this person, then I’ll go over and check their services. But for, but we are doing business human to human. So that about page is actually a very important piece of your website architecture and your customer journey.

[00:02:59] Kris Ward: And I do think it’s important and I do think a lot of us messed it up for the longest time because I know there was a thing back in the day where we were all trying to be very academic, right? Kris does this and Lala and you’re speaking third person and I know that’s now, not how it goes.

[00:03:13] So let’s dive into it. What does hello stand for? Where do we start?

[00:03:16] Kim Kiel: We start with hello. We start with hello. Let’s have them at hello. So we start at the very top of the web’s web page and the very first feature is that headline that what we call the hero section in copywriting. That’s where when someone lands on that page before you scroll down is what and you want to have a heck yes headline.

[00:03:37] A lot of people on their about page just simply have about me or about Kris or about Kim. That is wasted real estate. That hero section, you want to have a really juicy, powerful headline that really explains what you do, who you help, and maybe some of your genius. So you might want to say this is where entrepreneurs learn how to take back 20 hours of their week.

[00:04:01] Have that right in your headline as a chance for people to be like, okay, I’m in the right place and now I’m going to keep scrolling.

[00:04:08] Kris Ward: Doesn’t that push back to cause you’re right. I’m now searching my brain. I don’t have it memorized, but I’m pretty sure it just says about Kris Ward or whatever.

[00:04:15] So I wouldn’t have done that. And it makes sense, but also does it not push back a little bit where I don’t know, like we went back and forth to tell us what you’ve done. And then nobody cares what you’ve done. Cause it’s, if you solve a problem, but then I guess that is the problem I’m solving in the headline.

[00:04:31] So I guess I was thinking that was salesy or whatever, but so let’s get to, this is what she’s known for. Here’s the hook. And this is why you’re here. You’re not here. Cause you want to make friends with me. You’re here for a problem, right?

[00:04:44] Kim Kiel: Okay. And there’s all kinds of different formulas you can use for that headline section.

[00:04:48] Sometimes I like to use a customer testimonial. In that headline you could also use I help entrepreneurs and coaches create better time management systems. So you could just keep it really simple or caution working with me may cause more time in your calendar than you know what to do with.

[00:05:08] And then you’ll be like, Oh, let me see what’s going on. And then they’ll scroll. So you want a headline that’s going to capture attention and make people want to read the next line. So that’s what the heck yes. Headline that H in our framework is.

[00:05:21] Kris Ward: Okay. All right. That is awesome. Okay. Everybody, if you’re driving, pull over and make a note because that’s worthy.

[00:05:28] Kim Kiel: And the E is for empathize. Yeah. So even though it’s our about page, we still want to use it to let the visitors to our web page know we understand their problems. So you want to have a little section that shows you empathize with your reader, that you understand the problems that they’re facing. And it’s probably because those are similar problems that you had in your life or some kind of transformation story that led you to this place.

[00:05:57] So you definitely want to have a little section there that empathizes with your reader and lets them know they’re in the right place.

[00:06:03] Kris Ward: Okay. So a little bit of Why you’re doing the work, the passion, whatever that your story, whatever, however led you to this career or business.

[00:06:13] Kim Kiel: Yeah, it could be something like if you’re here, it’s might be because you’re struggling with X, Y, and Z or a lot of the a lot of the people who I support are struggling with these different challenges.

[00:06:25] So you can like getting a pain agitation section here.

[00:06:29] Kris Ward: Okay. I had that wrong. I thought it had to be my story of my journey to get me into this business, but that’s about me, not about them.

[00:06:36] Kim Kiel: So we’re empathizing with the reader. Yeah.

[00:06:39] Kris Ward: Clearly. I don’t know what empathy means. Okay. Back the truck up.

[00:06:44] We have a bigger problem. All right. Yeah. Okay. I got it. Because then I was, my brain was racing thinking what if you’re a marketer? It’s like how you don’t, everybody doesn’t have a big dynamic, painful story that led them to this journey. And okay. So the empathize with, if you’re here, so this is really changing the angle.

[00:07:01] The vibe of the dry stuff that’s out there, mine included, with the About Us page, because I think we’ve been ping ponging back and forth between two schools of thought, right? Speak about yourself, I’m important, make myself look important, say academic things in third person, and then cut to, oh yes, you’re here, and I get you, and here’s a little bit about me, and more conversational and direct.

[00:07:23] But adding this empathizing part is a whole other thing. So if you’re here, it may be because you’re tired of being tired. And like my clients, you’re like, listen, you’ve been grinding it out and you’re doing amazing. You look good on paper. You have a podcast, you have a book, but you’re still working way too many hours for this point in the journey.

[00:07:40] So that would be part, even though it’s not about me, I guess it’s about me and what I do.

[00:07:45] Kim Kiel: Yeah. You just, it’s just a soft little introduction. If you want to think of it that way, just to once again, remind people, okay, I got you. Like I get you and I got you and that’s why after you reflect that you understand why they’re here, then you get into your story, which is the first L, which is lean into your personal story.

[00:08:07] Okay. Your expertise show some proof. If you have a unique framework, this is where you’re going to highlight that. So yeah, so that’s the next section, which is be, how do I know all this? Because I’ve been there too. And then you could go through your story.

[00:08:24] Kris Ward: Okay. All right. And then we lighten up.

[00:08:28] Kim Kiel: Yes. I think too many of us are way too serious on our web pages and in our marketing in general. And when you think I’m connecting from one human to another human, I want to make sure I’m going to jive with this coach. I want to jive with this marketing expert. So you want a section where you can share some of your quirky stories, personal tidbits.

[00:08:49] A lot of people might have 10 fun facts. You might not know about me or people might include a timeline at this point. Something that’s just less heavy on copy and more fun and connecting. It could be like your favorite brands of coffee or your playlists that you’re listening to right now, or the books you’re reading right now, just something to, if we’re not going to connect professionally, maybe I can connect with you personally.

[00:09:17] Kris Ward: Okay. I’ve just had an awakening, a huge aha moment. Okay. So I was thinking as you’re talking, at first I was like nodding going, okay, cause for the longest time we were taught like, oh my gosh, I went to college, I went to university, let’s be a professional. And I had a veneer finished when I first reluctantly went on social media cause I thought shoulders back, let’s look like we’re a professional, right?

[00:09:39] And so when I gave that up, I’m like, here I am flawed and fun. And cause people would tell me all the time, Oh, you’re really fun to work with and la I figured that’s a fifth date thing and I’m supposed to be more serious online. So I gave that up. And then now I get a lot of compliments for how fun I am and vibe and it’d be great to work with you.

[00:09:55] Great. No problem. So I’m thinking, as you were talking about this, I’m like, Oh, I got this down pat, this lightening up stuff. And I really lean into that now, but what I’m hearing to you, the awakening I’m having is that I think we’re all treating, or maybe I should just speak for myself. I’m treating my about us page is still a different version of a resume.

[00:10:15] So when you say add 10 fun facts about me, this is an element for us to be personable, be fun because clearly we know there’s other people doing what we do. So what’s going to make it better to work with us. So it’s getting to know someone. And we’re, I think we’re misusing this is like a tag or again, like a bio at the back of a book.

[00:10:39] So you’re saying this is a connecting opportunity.

[00:10:42] Kim Kiel: This you’re every, most every page on your web page website is a mini sales page. It’s a chance to lead someone through a journey and convert them into a customer, a follower, a subscriber. So when you frame up your about page in this way, it just, you have this more clear customer journey.

[00:11:03] You make sure you’re including some of those expertise levers, some social proof. Yes. I’m a great at what I do. Here’s how I am. And also here’s a few fun facts.

[00:11:15] Kris Ward: Okay. That is interesting. Oh my gosh. I could end this right now and start working on my about us page. I got, I don’t have time to talk to you, Kim. I got stuff to do. Okay. And then we lean into, Oh, stands

[00:11:28] for offer.

[00:11:30] Kim Kiel: This is one of the biggest mistakes people make or it’s one of the biggest things people often forget on your each web page. You need to think about what is the next step I want my person to take on my website. Where do I want them to go next?

[00:11:45] If someone’s on my about page, and they’re connecting with me, and they’re jiving with me, what do I want them to go see next on my site? I want them to go view my services. So you’ve connected with me personally. So now at the bottom of my about page, I have, are you ready to work with me now? Click here to view my services.

[00:12:05] So you actually tell people what you want them to do. For others, it might be go listen to my podcast. For others, it might be download my free resource to help you do X, Y, or Z, but you get to decide what next step you want your audience to take. Don’t just leave it up to them to the side, because we’re distracted.

[00:12:28] We’re confused. We don’t know what we want to do. So you tell me what step is next. You give me the, Oh, the offer.

[00:12:35] Kris Ward: That’s so interesting for the longest time, I made the, I don’t know why I thought like this. I guess when you put such heart and soul into your website, you get sucked into that.

[00:12:47] This is really, back in the day I looked at like a book Oh, they’re going to go through page one to 10, which why would I ever think that I’ve never done that on a single other website? You’re popping in for a price. You’re popping over here. You’re looking for confirmation of information, but yet I thought, Oh, they’re going to read this in sequence.

[00:13:03] So I guess leaning into that still, I was thinking, Oh, they’re on my about us page because they’re verifying something or they bounce from another page or they came from social media. So I thought it was like the end of the journey or something. I, it never occurred to me then to say, okay, this is where you should go next. You’re right. Could never thought of that ever

[00:13:24] Kim Kiel: that and that is as a sales copywriter. That’s something that I find a lot of people are missing from their, yes, their LinkedIn profiles your social media captions. You can always give somebody a next step, tell them what to do with the information that you just gave them.

[00:13:43] So I’ve just shared with you a little bit about me. What is the next step that you want me to take?

[00:13:50] Kris Ward: So in my case, should we, the next step, we have so many options, but one is we do have what we call a power personality quiz. Cause it really does help you with your business. So it’s takes like 30 seconds.

[00:14:00] It gives you customized results. Do you have focusitis? Are you a rushaholic like myself, whatever. So would the best bet be to get them to take the quiz? Cause then they’re in our pipeline and a more importantly than anything, I can help them a little bit and awaken them to some things. Or would I be sending them over to us I, I know it’s personal preference, but is it better to engage them in that way versus sending them to another page?

[00:14:25] Kim Kiel: You can have a couple of different options. So you could, I think because yours is a personality quiz, you could say something like, now that I’ve shared a little bit about me, why don’t we find out a little more about you?

[00:14:37] I’ve got this fabulous quiz that you can take that will help you understand what kind of a time manager you are or whatever the promise is. And then you could have even another section. Don’t want to mess around with a quiz and get straight to work. Head over here for my services. Head over here to work with me directly.

[00:14:56] Kris Ward: Okay. Excellent. All right. All right. Okay. Oh my gosh. I’m so often amazed by my amazing guests because, you have people on the show and you think, all right, let’s go over this and I’m sure you’ll have some tips that were like, and sometimes if nothing else, I often say, Oh, I forgot I knew that.

[00:15:13] A refresher is just Oh, I forgot. But this really is a fresh perspective on something that I think we’ve neglected for a really long time and left it to really just be dry information, almost like verifying our identification. Yeah, here’s my passport. Here’s my business passport, boom.

[00:15:30] What next instead of it using it as opportunity to engage?

[00:15:34] Kim Kiel: Yes, for sure. And it’s okay. If you have had a very me focused resume type just fact checking about page just didn’t start to infuse a little bit more. So like over the weekend, what would be a great headline that I could optimize?

[00:15:50] Could I throw in a couple of quirky facts here and there? And then where do I want my people to take a next step?

[00:15:56] Kris Ward: I’m so excited. Okay. This is a fantastic framework. I’m suspecting someone like you has other frameworks.

[00:16:05] Kim Kiel: I love frameworks. I love them there. When I Kris, like when I started working as in my career, I am a great writer, but I always struggled to write fast, write quickly.

[00:16:17] I would overthink, I would agonize. And when I became a copywriter about six years ago, I discovered copywriting formulas and frameworks. And then it’s like a light bulb went off in my head and it’s Oh my gosh, writing is so much easier when you’re starting with a blueprint. Yeah. And the blueprints are so customizable.

[00:16:36] So yes, I love frameworks and I have formulas for all kinds of things.

[00:16:39] Kris Ward: And they make it memorable for everybody else too. Like when people talk about our super toolkits. which they say are like systems and processes on steroids. And one of the fundamental things about the super tool kits is you’re always CUEing them, create, use, and edit.

[00:16:53] And so what happens is, it, it creates a dialogue for everybody that works with you. It’s very memorable. They’re like, Oh, I’m supposed to cue this, create, use, and edit. See you eat boom. So yeah, I’m a big fan of frameworks as well. It just, it simplifies and clarifies anything you’re teaching and makes it memorable for others.

[00:17:07] So I’m a fan. So which framework should we go to next week? The hello one is beautiful. Where should we go?

[00:17:13] Kim Kiel: Why don’t we go to something that’s related, but maybe mini something you could do like in an hour today, you could refresh this and it’s your bio. So it’s related to our about page, but here’s a bio.

[00:17:25] So whether you’re going to speak on a podcast, speak on a stage to a guest expert session you want to update the bio on LinkedIn. Here is a really simple five sentence structure. So I’m going to go through the five sentences and then we can maybe pick a pick them apart if you want. Okay. So the first sentence is powerfully claim who you are.

[00:17:47] This is a power statement about who you are. Sentence two, build credibility and make it relevant to your audience. Sentence three, why is this important to the reader? Show me the transformation. Okay. Sentence four is share something personal and light to connect human to human. And sentence five is share a next step.

[00:18:13] Okay. So there’s. Really only five sentences in this bio, and I find a lot of entrepreneurs tend to get a little wordy in those bios and they go on and on. And this really challenges you to focus in on what’s most important and what’s most important to my audience. And pro tip, you want different bios for different things.

[00:18:33] So if you’re speaking on a podcast, you want a certain kind of a bio. If you’re speaking on a stage. You want to write a different bio because that next step, that audience that you’re talking to is going to be different every time. So these five sentences will help you refresh that.

[00:18:50] Kris Ward: My pet peeve about bios. So I get pitched a lot to be on this show. We have a waiting list and everything. And then I get these bios, which I will tell you all, please forgive me. Most of them come from PR companies and it’s just copy and paste. In fact, I got one that said, we loved your amazing show. And then it had a bracket insert show name here.

[00:19:09] They forgot. I was like, talk about copying basic, couldn’t even do that. And they have been trained and I don’t, please, okay, it doesn’t work because when you see it come through a PR company, it’s done. But also then they tell me right up front, Steve is an amazing father and he adores his three kids and seven dogs and he’s a great, so I don’t care that we’re not on a dating website.

[00:19:34] I’m not here in that. So the people give us a lot of personal information a at the top and I don’t care, I don’t care. It has no relevance to what we’re going to engage on or what value you can bring to me. So I do think you’re right. The bio is often, I don’t know, I don’t know where their head is, but it’s irrelevant information and not useful.

[00:19:54] Kim Kiel: Yes. And I do like to include some personal detail. But you’ll notice I put it towards the bottom of the bio, right? Because if somebody we’re business to business here, we want to connect, we want to get a customer, we want to get a speaking engagement. So you want to make sure you’re leading with your professional outcomes.

[00:20:12] And then again, you want to have that quick hit of a personal connection. So that again, if I’ve, okay, I’m bought into your expertise, but how do I know I really want to work with you? Then you hit them with a really soft personal sentence.

[00:20:28] Kris Ward: Or even if you said, Steve loves to run marathons with his wife.

[00:20:34] Oh my God. Okay. That’s something I couldn’t do that with my husband. It gives you something to think about, but to say on paper that, you have a loving wife, which by the way, most of them like,

[00:20:44] Really? It’s like when people on Facebook say that’s too much. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite is on Facebook.

[00:20:50] Spending the day with my family. Are you? You’re on the computer. You’re on your phone. So it just seems so generic and non meaning. Okay, so in the interest of time, which sentence do you think of this bio that we should pick apart? Let’s pick one. Let’s pick one.

[00:21:05] Kim Kiel: Okay. So the first sentence should be pretty easy.

[00:21:08] A lot of us have it. It’s like a power statement. Kim Kiel is an in demand brand voice and sales copy expert copywriting agency. So that’s very simple. I think sentence two is where you want to build credibility and make it relevant to your audience. Okay. So this is where you might say, I’ve Kim Kris has been in business for 20 years, helping entrepreneurs take back 20 hours of their week.

[00:21:30] She helps them transform from overworked to enjoying their life again. So this is where you include some of that credibility, the 20 years, the 20 hours, and why it’s important to my audience. Okay. And then I think that sort of personal statement sentence for, here’s mine. When she’s not nerding out on sales psychology in her home of Edmonton, you can find her tromping through the Canadian wilderness with her kids or continuing her quest to find her favorite whiskey.

[00:22:00] Kris Ward: So now that’s a little bit more interesting. That’s how she’s nestled in the cabin with her loving husband and two dogs that adore her three children. It’s I don’t think

[00:22:08] Kim Kiel: they are a single sentence. Okay. A little bit of closeness and connection.

[00:22:13] Kris Ward: Okay. And does that share is that in with the personal light there?

[00:22:20] Kim Kiel: Yeah. So that’s, that is the connect with and share something personal, add a little levity. If you funny, you could add something funny there. And then again, just like we did with the about page, hello framework at the bottom of your bio, give people a next step. If you want to hear more about Kris subscribe to her podcast Win The Hour Win The Day.

[00:22:42] So you give people that next step at the bottom of your bio. And again, you change that every time depending on what your audience is, so on a podcast, you might have a different bio than when you’re speaking on the stage on a stage, the bio might end with connect with her by subscribing to her her newsletter or get your free gift.

[00:23:06] Kris Ward: I think again, where I’m really hearing you differently is I just thought it was so harsh that again, you go to school, you try to do all that book learning, right? And so I went to college, went to university. And then when I wrote my book, the Win The Hour Win The Day book, one of the biggest criticisms I got from my editor, she said, Kris, you have to stop saying I cannot, I will not, it has to be can’t won’t, it has to be, like grade three, grade five level.

[00:23:28] I’m like, what the hell was all that school for then? I didn’t know. I my, and I knew not to make it dry and then it had to be conversational. One of the biggest compliments I get about my book is it’s easy to read, they can’t put it down and I get it. I get it. It’s conversational and to be at a lower grade level.

[00:23:44] So that’s fine. I get that. So I think I knew not to do that again with my bio, don’t make it dry and academic and third person stuff. But I do think you are infusing much more personality, much making it more conversational as if you, like we’re talking now. It’s more fun where, there’s a flow to it and adding that life and vibe to the other documents, your bio, your about page is something, all I saw the goal was to take it from dry and academic and make it conversational and get rid of the academia, but you’re really breathing a whole new life into it.

[00:24:19] Kim Kiel: It’s bringing your personality, your unique essence into this because Again, there are so many different business coaches out there. There are so many accountants out there. There are so many bookkeepers out there, but what is, makes you unique? What’s your personality? Because if I know that I’m going to connect with you because we both have a shared love of music, we both love coffee, we both have dogs, like it doesn’t matter whatever that point of connection is that builds no

[00:24:47] like and trust makes me want to work with you.

[00:24:49] And even if I don’t work with you, I’m going to remember, Oh yeah, that’s the lady who loves dogs. I’m going to refer her to my friend.

[00:24:56] I

[00:24:56] Kris Ward: Remember years ago, I was talking to this woman at a business thing and she used to be one of the producers on Oprah. And she was saying the biggest mistake people made.

[00:25:04] And this was so interesting to me is they call the pitch to be on the show and I get it. She said, they’re trying to be professional cause it was such a big show and it’s all this stuff. And she said, we’re not looking for personal professional, we’re looking for personality. And back in the day I was doing local TV shows and things like that.

[00:25:20] And I would have for sure think, Oh, look, I like, yes, I will be professional. I will show up on time. I will be prepared. Let me show you when we get on the phone, but there, it’s I know it’s a silly comparison, but those people on game shows and stuff, they, they’re not looking for smart people.

[00:25:34] They’re looking for personality, unless I think you’re on Jeopardy. I’ve only seen 20 minutes of Jeopardy, but it’s not safe. There’s a lot of personality going there, but so I think you’re right. If I were saying, Hey, bring me on board. When I do speaking gigs, then my sample of writing should be reflection.

[00:25:51] It’s a a paperwork, a trailer of who I am that should be transparent in all the touch points.

[00:25:58] Kim Kiel: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And let’s be let’s give ourselves a little grace. We, as you said, we went to school, we learned all these proper grammar structures and there is a time and place for that.

[00:26:11] But in everyday language and in business communications, it is no longer like that. And for a lot of us who are on that sort of middle life spectrum, we have had 20 years of working in that kind of language. So it is a little bit hard to slough off and instead of writing, I cannot write, I can’t, it takes a bit of practice.

[00:26:32] Yeah. But it is so important because even though we may be serving a very high level client, who’s very academic, very smart, maybe I’m very academic, very smart. When you’re writing on social media on your website, it has to be quick. It has to land fast. The best way to do that is with like really easy to read language and infusing your personality.

[00:26:53] So you really stand out.

[00:26:55] Kris Ward: Yeah. Wow. Great words to end on. Oh my gosh. Kim, where can we find more of your excellence?

[00:27:02] Kim Kiel: If you like these kind of quick formulas, quick tips, definitely subscribe to my podcast. It’s called ill communication. It’s copywriting tips and sales strategies for small business.

[00:27:13] So that would be the best way. And there is an episode all about that five sentence bioformula and you can check me out on all the socials and you can basically connect with me for everything from my website, which is

[00:27:28] Kris Ward: And everyone else, please share this show with one business buddy because you, business buddies do not let other business buddies suffer.

[00:27:34] And there’s a lot of really helpful, tangible takeaways here. Oh my gosh. I learned a lot. Kim. Thank you so much. It was a great hello. I hate to say goodbye, but everyone else, we will see you in the next episode.