Rosa Ponce De Leon talks to us about leadership but we go deep quickly! Listen in as you hear practical examples, big aha moments, and useful solutions.
-What truly makes you a leader (and it’s not what you think)
-The most important thing to do when delivering bad news.
-The biggest mistakes most leaders make regularly and how to avoid them!
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Rosa Ponce De Leon Transcription
[00:10:28]Kris Ward: Can’t hear you yet.
[00:10:30]Rosa Ponce De Leon: All right, now I’m here.
[00:10:31]Kris Ward: Oh, there we go.
[00:10:32]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Sorry about that. I just texted Anza. So, if she doesn’t send it over before our meetings overall, I’ll click on click it and send it to you.
[00:10:40]Kris Ward: Okay. So there’s the bio and the headshot, which I need before we can start today. And then the other stuff, my team, when you go into the pipeline, I’ve lost control of it.
[00:10:48] So the other thing isn’t completed, they’ll just put you further down the pipe. Your show would keep getting bumped. So if she can follow up with that would be fantastic.
[00:10:56]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Did they send it? Cause I haven’t seen anything from the team.
[00:11:00]Kris Ward: Oh, I sent it to you that day, I forwarded it to you again. See the email I forwarded to you. I said I never got that. It was sent about eight days ago.
[00:11:10]Rosa Ponce De Leon: I told him I misunderstood that email.
[00:11:11]Kris Ward: Oh, that’s okay.
[00:11:13]Rosa Ponce De Leon: What is it? I’ll have to… Do you need me to look at that now? Or can I jump in?
[00:11:19]Kris Ward: No, I just need it done to follow up with, yeah.
[00:11:21]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Okay. All right. Got it.
[00:11:26]Kris Ward: Okay. Alrighty. Okay. So while we wait, let’s just make sure I pronounce your last name correctly. Can you throw that at me?
[00:11:32]Rosa Ponce De Leon: I just say Ponce De Leon but honestly, whatever.
[00:11:39]Kris Ward: I’m not going to sit near these elegant.
[00:11:41]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Don’t worry about it.
[00:11:43]Kris Ward: It doesn’t roll. Okay. Let’s see what we have here. Okay. What we’re reading here?
[00:11:49]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Let me just send you the bio on a chop right now. Cause it’s definitely easy to do.
[00:11:57]Kris Ward: Can you say that email for some reason? My zoom, I can’t copy paste right now.
[00:12:15] Okay, while we’re waiting. Hold on and do a big smile. Cause you’re going to be on the show. Is there a selfie? What’s that noise there?
[00:12:29] Perfect. Okay. Perfect. Okay.
[00:12:48]Rosa Ponce De Leon: My computer’s a little slow while streaming apparently .
[00:12:52]Kris Ward: Always slower when people are waiting.
[00:13:06] Okay. So we talked a little bit about how we were going to talk about conflict and leadership, but you were going to send me some talking points. So I didn’t get those either. So can you just give me, like, let’s say five things people don’t do well.
[00:12:21]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Okay. So first of all, people don’t speak up when they should.
[00:13:23] There’s no issue that is too small to talk about. People assume they know what the other person, how the other person will respond instead of giving them the chance.
[00:13:41] People don’t take the time to have a strategy or an objective in mind and they fail to be effective in the conversation. And then, being direct is huge. Get to the point, don’t dance around it.
[00:14:04]Kris Ward: Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Here we go.
[00:14:32]Rosa Ponce De Leon: All right. It looks like we’re working here. Okay, good.
[00:14:04]Kris Ward: Yeah, I think I just got, I think she just sent it to me right now.
[00:14:36]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Oh, perfect. So…
[00:14:55]Kris Ward: Rosa Ponce De Leon
[00:15:02]Rosa Ponce De Leon: You know what? Everybody calls me PDL at work.
[00:15:08]Kris Ward: I’ll do my best.
[00:15:09]Rosa Ponce De Leon: It’s all good. Whatever you say is going to be just fine.
[00:15:19]Kris Ward: Okay.
[00:15:27] All right. So what we have here, we have the selfie. Okay. So just very much like yours, it’s very conversational. My audience tends to be entrepreneurs and business people at least five years. Service-based they’re really looking for things that they can listen to the show and then go try it out. Right. Big deal.
[00:15:46] Sometimes, when you say something brilliant, I will definitely jump in. I promise to interrupt you, but I try not to, when I can I put my hand up, so, you know, I’m going to jump in, cause I want to ask you something which makes sense. But one person I put my hand up to jump in and then she said, yes, go ahead and speak.
[00:16:03] I’m like, oh my gosh. Okay. And I told her about the finger thing before we started anyhow. Okay. Let’s see. I think we’re good. Use a timer, gallery view. Oh yeah.
[00:16:20] Okay, there we go.
[00:16:31] Okay. Perfect.
START[00:16:47]Kris Ward: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day. I am your host, Kris Ward, and today in the house we have Rosa. It’s like shear. We’re just going to call her Rosa. No, that’s..
[00:16:59]Rosa Ponce De Leon: I like it.
[00:17:00]Kris Ward: Okay. Cause she’s got a beautifully flowing elegant name. I’m thinking it’s Italian. Is it Italian?
[00:17:06]Rosa Ponce De Leon: I think it’s Spanish.
[00:17:09]Kris Ward: Okay. There we go. Ponce De Leon. Yeah. Okay. I just don’t have the flowing ares or anything like that. I just knew it was elegant. Alright, Rosa’s in the house. And today we’re going to dive in, we’re going to talk about leadership now. Not just a broad thing of leadership, because that’s kind of vague. So let’s get to the good stuff.
[00:17:25] We’re going to talk about conflict. Now here’s my pet peeve, Rosa. One of my pet peeves, all the times people say something like, oh, you know what? I don’t enjoy conflict or I don’t, you know, I don’t like confronting people. And I think who jumps up and says, oh, yay. Guess what? Today, I had a conflict and confronted somebody about it.
[00:17:45] Right. So it has to be done. But when done poorly, it’s a mess. And when you don’t do it, I always say doing nothing is still a choice. Like you’re making a choice by not doing something. That’s a decision. That’s still a decision. Making no decision is a decision. Right? So let’s just dive in. Let’s talk about what are some of the biggest mistakes when people are dealing with conflict and maybe we need to back up for a second and say, well, let’s qualify this with what kind of conflict are we talking about?
[00:18:14]Rosa Ponce De Leon: I think it’s very simple confronting issues. Let’s keep it at that. If there’s an issue that isn’t confronted, you know, it requires a little bit of conflict to confront an issue. And I think people are afraid of the emotions behind it. And I think we’re talking about leadership and leaders who abdicate their role in any area as a leader, it’s on you, you’re the leader, you have to take steps and take action where you’re needed as a leader.
[00:18:38] And there are certain things you should not advocate. You should not phone call the men, you should not delegate certain things. And conflict is one of them. Because if you set the example and set the tone in your organization, that conflict is a good thing and it can be done correctly. And you can demonstrate how to do that.
[00:18:55] People will find the value in it. And the value is that these emotional exchanges become very healthy. There’s a lot of creativity that results when you confront issues, there’s a lot of understanding of each other that happens when we confront issues in a healthy manner. And there’s a lot of teamwork that happens because if I understand you better, I can support you better.
[00:19:16] And if I failed to ask for understanding, and I just assume that I know what happened here and I don’t talk to you about it, then it’s going to keep happening. And then resentment pops up, resentment pops up, all kinds of things could pop up that I made, created that situation by bye.
[00:19:34]Kris Ward: Yeah. And you know, right away, I’m starting to think of a whole bunch of different examples where it, you know, one of my favorites is, of course I address every issue.
[00:19:43] There is like, because here’s the thing, when you do that in a timely and effective manner, not only does the team feel safe because there’s no lingering or head games or anything like that, but I’ll find more often than not that I miscommunicated something like, ah, You know, so, and I always say to them, I enjoy being wrong.
[00:20:00] Like, okay, great. I’d rather that I can fix me. And rather than being disappointed you, I think it’s great when you gently point out that. No, no, this was on you. Oh, okay. Great. And recently I had an example of someone on my team and we were trying to decide between these two platforms that we’re going to use for our different courses that we have.
[00:20:18] Right. And I wasn’t really thrilled with teachable, sorry, teachable. I wasn’t really thrilled, repeatable for a couple of reasons. And I was thinking about going to this other platform. Now he didn’t really like it for a number of reasons. And he’s kind of funny. I always say that Evan is much like, it’s hard.
[00:20:35] I can’t, I have to convince Evan, spend my own money. Like, I always say, Evan, I’m so glad we’re not married, but, so I was like, I think we need to make a move. And here’s why, so a couple of weeks later came back and then we were adding to this. And I thought we had moved some of the videos over to the new platform.
[00:20:51] And so I came back, and I said he didn’t do it. And he goes, Kris had just put them on, spend your money. I just don’t think that’s a platform. And let me explain why, he said I moved a couple of videos over, but it’s still in a free capacity. And here’s why I still don’t think it’s good. So I said to him, okay, here’s the deal you should have given me more pushback.
[00:21:10] He said, well, I told you a little bit and I said, you didn’t push hard enough. Because, now you move some videos over there, which somebody had to move. So it was, yeah, it’s a waste of time. We didn’t, he said I didn’t move them all over because again, he’s waiting to convince me. I’m like, yeah, but still somebody did it.
[00:21:24] So it was, we didn’t see it work. Evan, your opinion matters. I will listen to you. You have to push back harder and he does on many things, but in this case he didn’t, because he said, you just seem like you’re really focused on that. And I said, okay, well then say, look, do we come back tomorrow? Because I think you’re really focused on this and you’re not hearing me.
[00:21:42] And I think, I really think we need to address this. So you also, I feel have to equip them with the same skills, like, you know, as they say, leaders create leaders.
[00:21:53]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Right. And I think you’re hitting on a big point because he may have been a little bit afraid to confront you. And I think when you throw fear out the window and it becomes clear that none of us are afraid of conflict with one another, whatever conflict we have, it’s going to end in a good place and a good way, then people feel more free to confront.
[00:22:12] And that’s what you want, because I think there’s a clear example of he wasn’t one way or another. He was namby-pamby about it. I was like, I gave you what he wanted to do, but meanwhile, the business is in a holding pattern and that’s not what we want.
[00:22:25]Kris Ward: Yeah. And the thing is he had my best interest in mind and I guess that’s another thing, like sometimes word conflict.
[00:22:32] It just sounds like there’s going to be a followed negativity drama when it’s really, I guess I’m always about picking language apart. It’s really about resolving or minimizing conflict, right? It’s really about communication and figuring out, like, as I said to him, I will hear you. If you push, if you say, look, I’m going to push back harder than I usually do.
[00:22:53] And this is uncomfortable for me. Even if you say those things, I’ll slow down and say, okay, all right. You know, cause I know I taught you to say this. I’ll have to listen.
[00:23:02]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes we need that because we get so focused and we’re also passionate. I mean, I would love to have a team of passionate people.
[00:23:09] I think we all appreciate people that are self-starters and motivated and wanna get things done for you. And those are the kinds of people that sometimes we need to go, Hey, pause, pause. Let’s back up a little bit. And I think until we get each other’s attention, we may not have the conversation that we want to have because we’re not listening. And it’s just a matter of hitting pause.
[00:23:30]Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. I’m really big as you know, about creating what I call your, “What is next team?” And that’s part of the fundamentals of how we hire, onboard and train people. We really do train them to have ideas to think, and that it is a safe place, right? And because we rely so heavily on our super tool kits.
[00:23:45] More often than not, when there is a discrepancy of any sort, the first thing we look at is the system and go, okay, where did the system not communicate this? Right. So people I find too are not as in a defensive mode because they know my problem solving, you know, approaches. So I think that is very different.
[00:24:03] Then a lot of things out there, and especially sometimes I’ve worked for small business people over the years and sometimes it can be a little bit more. I don’t know, dramatic because they see the direct correlation of money you’re taking out of their pocket. And that’s just not how we operate.
[00:24:17] So you’re right. I think it’s fear-based is everything. So if you learn to communicate, I know being direct is one of your passions, but I think that also gets tied up in being rude or blunt.
[00:24:29]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Totally. And I think that’s the biggest fear that people have and they talk themselves out of that directness.
[00:24:34] And it’s not a good thing to talk yourself out because when you have to deliver let’s just say bad news or challenging news, just get to the point. Because people get confused. They’re already feeling like, oh man, I screwed up. There’s some emotions tied to that that are very natural. Like either I feel bad for wronging you or I feel like a failure.
[00:24:53] I feel like, you know, whatever emotions are going to surface up, they’re not going to be happy emotions probably. So we need to be able to get to the point, let those emotions happen. They’re going to happen, expect them, welcome them and let the person have their moment. But if you’re dancing around there, you’re just creating all this added confusion and anxiety for the person on the receiving end that does not help the situation at all.
[00:25:14] So you have to be very clear on what is the issue I’m confronting. What is the result that I want? What objective do I have in confronting this issue? What would be my happy place at the end of this? And if you’re clear on those things, when you come in, that’s your responsibility, when you’re clear on those things, you’re going to set up, set yourself up to succeed in that conversation and to be able to be direct, Hey Rosa, when this happened, I really felt that this was wrong because… Why did you do it that way?
[00:25:41] I want to know. I want to understand. And it’s that simple and Rosa might go, oh, I didn’t even know that happened. Yeah. Let me think about that. Let me give me a minute or whatever I need at that moment, but it gives me a chance to really not be confused and only deal with the natural emotions that I have. Not any added stress that you brought.
[00:26:00]Kris Ward: Yeah. And that’s a really good point too, because what happens then is you find out how they think, like, even if there’s faults and thinking like, oh, okay. I see, I don’t know. I don’t agree with it, but I see how you got there. And I think too is I know, like, I know I have a lot of WPS words per minute, so I know sometimes I had to work on in the past.
[00:26:21] When somebody’s standing there, stammering trying to get to a point, they think they’re trying to tell me something that I won’t want to hear. And then of course my mind is racing because they’re going well, you know how last week, and now I’m just talking quickly in my mind, in between their big dramatic gaps, William Schaffner, Shatner gaps.
[00:26:37] Hello. And so then I, you know, I know it’s rude to say, please. Talk quicker. What is the point? But I have had to say to them, and, and you know, I won’t name you all. Cause you know who you are. If you’re listening to the show, you know, you talk slow and I had to say to him, listen, it’s not that I expect you to speak quickly like me, but the dramatic pauses and stutters and stuff, just buildings.
[00:27:02] I, even for me, like what’s the bad news, right? Because then I get to it’s like, that was it. That’s what you stammered for 30 seconds. Like, oh my gosh. Okay. I can deal with that. It really, even when I, you know, I don’t work for them, you still have this, like what’s happening? What is it? You’re so afraid to tell me.
[00:27:20] So being clear and I’ve worked with them on that and now they get it like, cause it does take a little bit of confidence because they do see it as a little bit of rudeness to it. And it’s like, no, you just have to tell me, tell me what’s happening now. And we can make a decision to move on.
[00:27:35]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Yeah. And let’s requalify that because I think the rude thing is some assumed that if I’m direct, I’m going to be rude. But the reality is when you confront someone on an issue that is not working for them or that there’s confusion around, it’s the most caring thing you can do for them. If you see somebody walking around and their shirt is buttoned offset, right? If you didn’t button your shirt correctly and you’re walking around all day and no one tells you, you’re going to feel like no one cared enough to tell you, and you walked around that way all day, somebody spoke up and said something, right?
[00:28:05] It’s awkward. But like I needed to hear that, right? So I think we need to adopt the idea that this is a very caring gesture on my part, and that I should take my time with it and I should do it well for that person.
[00:28:17]Kris Ward: Yeah. And I think, I always say the kindest thing I can give you is the truth and some clarity.
And I know someone on my team and they have been diagnosed with anxiety disorder and, you know, that’s a whole nother kettle of fish with, cause I always think exercise and stuff can help you there. But anyhow, so I thought in the beginning I’m like, I don’t think I’m in a place for somebody with anxiety issues.
[00:28:40] She was trying to think, I don’t think this is where you want to be. And he said to me, no, ’cause you’re so clear. There’s no head games. Like I know like here’s what’s happening. Here’s why it’s happening. And I never have to wonder about your humor. And I also believe too, if there is an issue to be addressed, you address it; it’s been addressed.
[00:28:58] You move on. There’s no emotional luggage. There’s no, you know, there’s no fighting about this later. We’re not married. And even if we were, that would be a bad way. That would be a bad way to handle it. That’s the, you know, as I used to say to my husband who moved on to things really quickly, like when the fight was over and I’d say, damn later, I’m still secretly mad at you.
[00:29:16] Like he moved, he recovered. Like he was able to let things go quicker than I was. I said, I’m still secretly mad at you. And he said, well, you’re not the secret. Like it’s not a secret. You moved on. And I still think you should be sorry. So that’s what I get from my team is they know, like, I also believe you’re responsible for the energy you bring in the room. So they know if there’s something to be addressed, I’m not interested in making them feel bad about themselves. No one.
[00:29:44]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, we hired a great person either they became bad in our business or something changed. Right. So we would hope we could keep people that are good. Being great. And I want to go back to the issue of anxiety because people who do struggle are more prone to anxiety.
[00:30:00] They do want to talk about things and they have this buildup that happens inside of them. And as leaders, we have to be willing to hear bad news. And I think sometimes people are afraid to come to us with bad news or what they think is bad news. They may not even be bad in this once we talked about it, but they feel that way.
[00:30:14] And I think when we project that, that openness about bad news, that there’s no trouble that we can’t get through together. Just go ahead and talk about it. I think that for someone who struggles with anxiety, that’s a very welcomed situation because they want to talk. They want to get it out in the open and resolve it.
[00:30:33]Kris Ward: Now you are an entrepreneur and you’re doing wonderful work with all kinds of businesses and leaders, but you have a background that came from a very different experience, correct?
[00:30:42]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Yes. So the funny thing is, I’ve been in law enforcement. Was technically still on the job. I’m looking to retire here in the next five years.
[00:30:50] But the funny thing that I realized early in my career is that, as law enforcement professionals, we deal with conflict all the time. But then I looked internally at it, at how we dealt with conflict with each other and I realized how bad we are at it. So, this human tendency of thinking, oh my gosh, conflict, you know, it’s just natural for some people.
[00:31:11] No, even for some of us that are trained in conflict, it’s not easy because it’s that one-on-one relationship. And we have to get real vulnerable with each other and share our emotions around a certain thing. It’s hard to say, Hey, listen, I feel like you wronged me. I feel hurt by what you did, or I feel like you really let me down.
[00:31:28] Or I feel really disappointed, or I really don’t understand this. I have to get vulnerable with you to say that. And I think people think for conflict, you have to be a strong character and the opposite is actually true. You have to be willing to share where you’re hurt and where you’re feeling, you know, some, some very vulnerable thoughts. So I think that’s the biggest issue where people might struggle.
[00:31:49]Kris Ward: That is interesting. That makes so much sense when you say it, because although you’re dealing with law enforcement, the outside world is you’re called in only because there’s a conflict. Nobody calls you because things are going well.
[00:32:00] Right. And so you’re called in for conflict. And then it’s also so emotionally charged because so many variations of that situation can happen. And then if you feel whatever, somebody didn’t serve you or protect you or back you up in a certain way, that moment has passed. So it’s kind of really hard to, you know, we’re not talking about paperwork that I didn’t get.
[00:32:20] Right? So that is very interesting. A number of years back, our business took a real turn. Honestly, I fired a bunch of clients. I was just like, it was after my husband passed away. And I just, I needed to love every moment of every day, a hundred percent. I didn’t have it in me to humor people in any capacity anymore.
[00:32:39] Whatever. So we fired a bunch of clients and then we sort of revamped and we’re taking a more focused direction. And I know there was somebody in my team that had been with me a while, but we really, now this is it. I’m not messing around. And I mean, we were good before, but now I felt like I was trying to get to the Olympics.
[00:32:57] And I said to her, look. You know, I helped her with her time management. I wrote a book on it. We worked on some stuff, but she was still kind of struggling. And I said, I’m going to be honest with you. I hope you make the climb, but I’m not sure you will. And I will not sacrifice any aspect of my new vision.
[00:33:13] For anyone, including you. So this is what you have to do. And so it definitely was not a threat. It was.. here’s where we’re going. Kind of like going to the Olympics, your numbers better be good. You may be the best track star in your region, but here’s what I need from you to get like, to stay on the team.
[00:33:31] Right. And, she, you know it didn’t beat her up. She didn’t feel bad. She’s like, okay, I get it now. I hear you. Whatever. And I think still, it’s always shocking to me because I did for a number of years soften that or could curtail it or dance around it because I was always told I was so direct and I wasn’t sure that was a compliment, but it really does seem to be one of the better things that serve my business.
[00:33:58]Rosa Ponce De Leon: It really is. And, that’s a huge one because as leaders, especially with employee performance. We struggle so much. And I know in law enforcement, I learned this very quickly because when we train a brand new officer out of the academy, we were one-on-one constant feedback every day. And there’s a lot going on.
[00:34:14] And a lot of processing it’s very overwhelming, but you’ll have time to dance around it. So you really, have to be direct, but it doesn’t mean you don’t also take that person into consideration. And when, what works for them. So I can be direct, but that directness has different forms and there’s value to knowing who’s in front of me.
[00:34:33] What do they need? Less communication for me and just the little stuff and they take it and run with it and they need to go and explore and figure it out themselves. Or are they the type of person that needs to sit down with me after that feedback and go, let’s set up a plan together because there’s people that operate very differently.
[00:34:48] As leaders, we not only are being directed and then just that’s it. We’re done. We walk away. No, there’s still some follow up there that we need to be mindful of. Whether, again, it’s just stepping back and observing and adding more value when, where it’s needed or grabbing the person by the hand and going let’s work through this together. There’s a lot of options after that.
[00:35:08]Kris Ward: Yeah. And I think leaders too. You know, I think it might’ve even been you. I was talking about this where I have a team and I see it sort of as a circular thing, like we’re in this together and the rowboat rowing together. And then I. You know, I know one time somebody on the team was struggling with communicating with somebody new and, and he said to me, okay, I need to talk to you.
[00:35:28] I need some more leadership skills. And I thought, oh, I guess I’m a leader. Like I was like, oh, okay. I never thought of it. Me as a leader. I mean, I guess I am, but it, I guess, I’d like to think, I don’t want to, I was going to say, I like to think a good leader doesn’t even see that they’re a leader, but then I was applying, I was a good leader, but I didn’t see that role there.
[00:35:48] And, but what I will say is people get confused when you said, as I always say, having a VA does not make it a team, it’s just somebody who is dumping work off, but understand, you can have one person or two people working for you. You’re how you start. It’s like baby steps. It’s how you learn how to, as a toddler to walk, allows you to run. So sometimes people have this idea too, that you’re a leader when you have 10, 20 or 30 people.
[00:36:13]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Yeah, no, I think people. You can choose to be a leader right now in any aspect of your life, right? And so you get to decide whether you want to advocate that role. I go back to that because many people do, they let other externals decide for them what their life should be like.
[00:36:30] And that’s not a leader. That’s somebody who defaults to others. The things that are meant to be their own responsibility. So there is no marking or milestone that makes you a leader for me. I’ll tell you a quick story. I was a peer to other officers. And I had gone to a special assignment. And in that special assignment, I was allowed to come to patrol, to support some of the staffing issues they were having.
[00:36:52] And so I was not as well known to everybody and I was still treating them like a peer, but I was older and more senior and they saw me as a leader. And so even though I was their peer, technically in rank and by role, the way that I was communicating with them was no longer serving me well, because they saw me in a different capacity and I had to really step back and own my leadership style and say, you know what, they see me as this.
[00:37:18] So I need to understand. My role has changed. I’m more of a mentor now I’m more of a guidance person. And I really thank those officers because they provided me feedback that I just had basically molded over with my comments. The feedback was good, but the delivery sucked and I needed to know that. And I really thank them for letting me know, because I was able to step back and go, I’m a leader now.
I need to understand that that means that I need to consider others first and deliver the news accordingly.
[00:37:49]Kris Ward: That makes sense. And that’s exactly what we’re talking about here. When you could have one person on your team, you’re now officially a leader and you think you’re just trying to get through the day, but those you know, how I always talk to people, onboarding and training, and they were profound legs, you know, giving your sea legs.
[00:38:07] It’s how you start to become a leader. And you’re going to lead. Here’s the thing. You’re making decisions. So you are leading. Whether you see yourself as a leader. Cause we all attribute that to really important, impactful people, but you are the one leading the decision. So I guess, you know, by default you are the leader.
So tell me some other things that you think people just don’t pay enough attention to in a leadership role?
[00:38:31]Rosa Ponce De Leon: I think the biggest thing is that we dismiss little things. If something bothers you, it matters. Talk about it. And I think sometimes we think, you know, you have to be curious. Why did that matter?
[00:38:44] Right. And when we dismiss that curiosity, we’ve overcome a set of issues to reveal something’s wrong, and we shouldn’t wait until that issue gets stagnant and becomes worse. We should fix it sooner, leaders address issues quickly. And I think the sooner, the better. And so don’t dismiss a small issue.
[00:39:03] Oh, that’s just petty. I shouldn’t really bring that up. That was just me having a bad day. That was just me being in a bad mood. That was just, well, if it was you being in a bad mood, then let’s talk about that. Let’s understand why that jeopardizes your relationship with this person.
[00:39:18] Cause ultimately that’s really what it’s about. We’re working with people and we need to connect and we need to stay relational. So when you open up and tell somebody, Hey, this may seem petty, but this really bothered me because of ABMC. And going back to your point that you said earlier, it was probably me.
[00:39:33] I was the issue, but wouldn’t it be great to get the insight from the other person so that now I’m not just assuming that I’m having a bad day. Maybe they say no, Rosa, actually I think you’re right. I think you have a point. It wasn’t offensive, but here’s why I think it wasn’t offensive. And now I’ve got this deeper understanding of the issue and I don’t have to try and resolve it all in my head.
[00:39:54] Somebody actually added value to someone who’s very smart, who I respect, who has helped me work through a little issue that now doesn’t have to become a bigger issue later down the line.
[00:40:03]Kris Ward: Yeah, that’s a really good point. Cause like that early conversation I had with Evan, where we were talking with the platforms and he, you know, he could’ve stewed over that.
[00:40:11] If he was in a different work environment, like I told her twice, I didn’t really think that was a good idea. But then when I come back and say, well, you told me, but you still didn’t act upon it. So it wasn’t resolved. So you have to stand up tall and make sure it’s resolved, that allows you to move forward.
[00:40:27] So, you know, he could’ve been like, if we weren’t so heavy in the communication, he could have been like, you know, scuffing knees all the way home kicking the dirt. Same. But I told her twice, blah, blah, blah. It’s like, yeah. Well, all right. I hear you totally right here. And I hear that. I didn’t listen. So what are we going to do the next time when you think I’m not listening?
[00:40:45] So I’m willing to say, okay. Yeah, I didn’t listen well, so what’s our new strategy when we think I’m not listening well. Right. Otherwise that would just stew and get victimized. And you know, it, you know, like when. And when I say a bad fight with your spouse, it means a poorly strategized fight with your spouse, where you pull in another thing, pull up.
[00:41:07]Rosa Ponce De Leon: I want to acknowledge something about that example though, because you’re giving that person ownership of that project. And if you own that project, you’re the leader. You supersede me in that. That’s your project. I’m just supporting you. I’m a supportive role in that project. You’re the leader.
[00:41:22] I answer to you in that project. And I think that sometimes get confusing with people, because even though I’m the leader, the owner, the president, whatever, I’m not the owner of every single task. If you own it, you own it. I answer to you in some cases. And I think that’s a big distinction that sometimes we forget.
[00:41:39]Kris Ward: I think that’s a huge distinction. I didn’t see it. And I thought I was, you know, doing everything as well as it could be done, but you’re right. Because we all know what that feels like when we’ve had jobs where they said I was in charge at the last second, somebody from whatever department who doesn’t even, you know, isn’t the end user says, we’re going to do it this way.
[00:41:57] It’s like, oh, great. Do you even know what that means, right? So even though the lines are, the two sides are much closer when we had that discussion. You’re right. And if I’m saying you’re in charge of that, then I should’ve listened carefully more quicker and also bowed down to the fact that you are leading this project. Not me. That is.. everybody write that down. Yeah. Right.
[00:42:21]Rosa Ponce De Leon: And you asked her about some of the assumptions. The other assumption that we make when we are going to confront an issue is we assume we know the person’s going to react. We assume they’re going to be upset or we assume, and it could be the person who maybe does have a tendency to get upset with things, but people surprise you sometimes.
[00:42:37] And it’s all in the delivery. Again, if you care enough and people know it, they might have an outburst in the moment, but maybe give them a chance to process because you had time to process it. And they’re just hearing about it now. And I think even in the worst case scenario where someone might be a little bit more abrasive or irritable, they’ll come around.
[00:42:55] If you do it correctly. Because they’ll know. And how you act after the fact, like, even if they outburst and you stay calm and you just give them their space. You’re respecting the fact that I just dropped a bomb on their plate. Let me have a moment to let them collect themselves. And if you treat them well through that, they will come around and they’ll remember how you treated them in their moment.
[00:43:18]Kris Ward: Yeah, because too, you’re putting stuff on them, like the drama, like, which I believe in energy too. So also if you’re bringing that into the room, expecting it and building it up in your head, that’s one thing. And then the moment they don’t handle it as best as they would like to now, you know, if you react, you’re just adding fuel to the fire.
[00:43:35] So I know, you know, I think of the movie Moneyball, I’d seen a number of times and he was teaching the other guy how to fire somebody, don’t beat around the bush, you’re going to get shot. You don’t wanna be shot in the head and the chest and leg just do it, whatever. And so he finally had to fire somebody and the guy was like, you know, fire somebody, I guess, trade them, he was traded to another team and the guy’s like, oh, okay.
[00:43:57] And he’s like, oh, I was waiting for like a big drama and stuff. So it really is. If you just stay true to the course and do it as effectively as you can, it just does everybody a favor.
[00:44:09]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Right. Right. So, so yeah, picture the worst case scenario and just know that whatever the worst case scenario might be, I’m not going to close off. I’m not going to get defensive. It’s not about me. I’m going to let the person have their moment. Yeah.
[00:44:20]Kris Ward: ‘Cause the end result is we are all working towards success. Especially you guys out there. We’re talking. We are, you know, Rosa, like we all have a, I don’t love the word, but a small business, right? We’re not talking about large corporations.
[00:44:33] That’s not who we’re talking about. So the end goal is for us to have a really effective day to have fun with who we work with to have success, to get more work done in less time. So, you know, all this other stuff really would just get in the way, especially when it is such a small team. And there is such intimacy.
[00:44:49] You really, you want this to be a place where people love to work. And I find too for me, then they really over-deliver like the team really steps up cause they want to do right by me because they feel like they treat them well. And you know, issues are resolved. It’s just, you know, they really over-commit.So if you’ve nowhere to go, but up.
[00:45:10]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Yeah, and I want to point out the fact that listening is such a great quality. And I think all of us are well-intended in listening, but when our team supports us in our defects, if I’m not a great listener at all times, but I know that my team is going to call me out when I’m not being a great listener, that really gives me the freedom to not fret over, you know, all that self-improvement and self. Like I have a team that carries me. I have a team that supports me that understands my weaknesses and I don’t have to hide them. And I know that when the going gets tough, they’re going to add value to my life and to my leadership. And they’re totally good with the person that I get out of leadership.
[00:45:46] But they’re also good with picking up the slack where I fall apart. And that’s the beauty of having a full-time team. We talked about having those VA’s and those people, we should obviously invest in those relationships as well, because there are people and we want them to be happy in that working relationship that we have.
[00:46:01] But those team members that you have on board, they really become just a force multiplier for you in your leadership. I think a lot of leaders get overwhelmed. They feel expanded. They feel like if it has to be done well, it has to be done by me. But when you invest in your team, all man, there’s nothing like it. It really is a liberating experience because you’re free to be you.
[00:46:22]Kris Ward: Yeah. And it’s so funny. One of, I work really hard. I call myself a recovering Russia Holick and from time to time, there’ll be times where I know when I rush in, if I overbook myself, then I’m going at a pace that everybody else can’t keep up with.
[00:46:36] And then my tone, it comes out a little sharper than I mean to, so I work on that and I was doing this training thing with omebody who is on my team and she was there because that’s how we do it. Anyway. That’s another story. Cause you, people shouldn’t be doing all your training either by yourself, have them do it for you or with you.
[00:46:51] But anyhow, so there were some situations involved where I felt after the training was some I’m like I think, and this person was newest on our team and a lovely much softer human being than, than the rest of us. And I said to her afterwards, you know what? I think my tone wasn’t coming out, right. I was asking questions.
[00:47:10] Cause there had been some frustration with how this onboarding had gone with this person that was training us. And so I think I carried that forward, which again, you’re talking about, I let that stew. Right. And so then I said to someone on my team, I think my tone could have been better. And I honestly was expecting because she was new, but I train them to talk to me and each other and communication be very clear, but I still expected cause she’s new going.
[00:47:33] Oh no, it was okay. Whatever, I was expecting something. And she said, yeah, I think you’re right. It was like
[00:47:42] You’re not even here and pretend. Okay. I did need to hear the truth, but honestly I was looking for it to make me feel better, but okay. So, but I’m proud of that. I’m proud that she felt safe to go. Yeah. I think you could have done a better job. Cause I asked her, so it was an emotional low for 30 seconds, but then I was like, look at that, look at the team I have that she’ll call me out, you know, especially when I asked.
[00:48:05] Right. So it works. Yes. Okay. I can talk to you all day, Rosa. Where can people find you? Where should they learn more about your brilliance?
[00:48:15]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Well, my website has access to everything. You can get social media, my podcast I need it just scrolls up. It’s roseuponown.com and we’re doing a quick little overhaul of it, but nevertheless, all the links are accurate. You can find me there.
[00:48:26]Kris Ward: Perfect. And we’ll make sure to put that in the show links because I can’t even say it. So I’m sure you guys can. Right. So, Rosa, you’re awesome. And thank you so much, everyone else we’ll see you in the next episode.
END[00:48:38]Rosa Ponce De Leon: Thank you, Kris.