You can find Rachel Eubanks at:
Win The Hour Win The Day
Rachel Eubanks Podcast Transcription
[00:15:54]Kris Ward: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day. And I am your host, Kris Ward. And today we have Rachel Eubanks in the house. Now Rachel is a copywriter and this is gonna be a fantastic time because she really has some goods for us.
[00:16:09] Now I’m not gonna lie. I think copywriter really lack some luster and under sale it under sells Rachel’s I don’t know, exuberance and for what we can do for our business. So welcome to the show, Rachel, we’re thrilled to have you.
[00:16:23]Rachel Eubanks: Hey, I am so excited to be here and I kind of agree with you about the copywriting term. I get a lot of questions about it. So just really quickly, I tell people that I write for businesses and by my writing, I help make them money and build lasting relationships through that rotting so.
[00:16:42]Kris Ward: Well, that does take it up a notch. You can see you’re a writer already. okay. Yeah. Okay. There she wrote that better than I said it.
[00:16:50] Okay. Excellent. All right. So Rachel, we’re gonna talk about today. I mean, the dream is at some point during maybe your entrepreneurial journey, at some point you may have someone like yourself that we can hire and say. Hey, help me out with writing so I can make more money and lasting relationships with other businesses grow my business.
[00:17:09] But for many of us, that’s something further down the road, possibly if at all. And what we’re gonna talk about today is couple of things we’re gonna talk about how can we write better copy for ourselves and then why that’s so important we do that before we hire a copywriter. Anyhow. So let’s dive in, let’s talk about some of the biggest mistakes people make when writing copy for their business.
[00:17:33]Rachel Eubanks: Okay. First of all, before we go any further, I wanna go back to something you said just now about having to define that voice yourself. This was an old, old episode of an Amy Porterfield podcast. It was years ago. I can’t even tell you the number, but she was talking about the fact that her first three years of business, she had to write her own copy and look, before she ever hired anybody.
[00:17:54] She said, looking back, that was one of the best things I did for my business, because I had to find my voice. So I wanna say to anybody that’s listening, and I know Kris understands this as well, that this is such an integral part of your business if you are writing your own copy right now. When you do hire somebody to write for you, you are going to be able to speak to them in a way about your business
[00:18:18] that prior to that you would not have been ready. You’re going to get more bang for your buck. So I just want you to almost enjoy the journey. That’s what I’m asking to do is to enjoy the journey lean in and realize that this is just as important building your business, as it is talking about your packages and thinking about the products that you’re creating. So I just wanted to make that point.
[00:18:40]Kris Ward: No, let me, yeah. Let’s dive into that a little deeper, cuz I think your point is at very salient one because here’s the thing, copywriting is a way to maximize your communication in a marketing tone and efficiency and that’s putting a twist on something that matters to you to sell to your consumer.
[00:19:01] It’s not creating your voice. Right. So, there’s words I would use or would use. So I help entrepreneurs stop working so hard. Right. Great. Yes. And I’m all about your business should support your life instead of consume it. Excellent. So those are two things that really matter to me, but that came from all the times that I was writing my copy and talking to people and started realizing like, it’s that simple.
[00:19:24] They’re just working too hard. They’ve been in business a number of years and they thought they would be working less hours by now. But if I came to you and then I’m saying, well, when people come to me, they’re all stressed out. They’re exhausted. They’ve been recycling burnout, you blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:19:38] You’re not creating my voice. You’re just taking the language I’m already saying. And then making it sound more efficient and more dynamic and more catchy and hooks and all that other stuff. And I think that’s the big thing is I’ve seen people do this over and over again, hire a writer and they don’t like the writer. Well, the writer can’t create your personality or your brand. Right?
[00:20:00]Rachel Eubanks: No. And they can’t. And let me speak to this too, because that is a huge hole in the copywriting world. And I have built scaffolds in my business to overcome that gap. But like, for example, I have an onboarding process where I have to speak to your customers and things like that.
[00:20:16] So I do have, I recognize that as a hole, but like you’re saying. We have… and it actually leads. Let me just stop for a second. And it leads into one of my very first points. And you mentioned a second ago too. The best thing that we can do as business owners is to spend time with our customers or potential customers.
[00:20:34] And I tell that’s what I do when someone hires me like I’m gonna need a list of loyal customers because I’m gonna be talking to them. And then I tell business owners who cannot, who aren’t ready to hire me yet. Hey, the best thing you can do is to get on the phone once a month with one or two customers. Even better
[00:20:54] now that we’re kind of out in the world again, go have coffee with them because you do have it. You want to ask some very serious questions. Like, why do you love my service? Have you told anybody else about my product? What could I do differently to make this even better? You want to ask those businesslike questions, but you also wanna spend some time with them because when you
[00:21:16] see them in their rush to get things done, or you hear them go, oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. I’m running late. My son, I had to drop him off at soccer practice. And then all of a sudden, my husband called me and said that he couldn’t, you start to see how your product and service actually fits into their life.
[00:21:37] And I’m telling you as a writer and as a business owner, you can take that understanding to the bank because when you fill in someone’s pain or you meet a desire they’ve had, you can you make money off of that. And I mean that in a very earnest and sincere way, I’m not talking about it in a sleazy marketing way.
[00:22:00] So my very first point to all anybody listening is if you’re not checking in on loyal customers with a process like once a month I blah, blah, blah, blah. I think I heard Pat Flyn. This was an old podcast too. And you may have even heard this one too, Kris. But I’ve heard Pat, Flyn talk about that
[00:22:19] one of the processes he has in his business is that he calls 10 of his customers every month. Now, of course, he’s got a bunch of systems in place to help with that. So we just need to bring that down percentage wise to what our business looks like. It it’s probably not 10. It may be one or two. But there needs to be a system in place that you were spending time with customers.
[00:22:43]Kris Ward: Let me jump in. Hold on. Cause you’re making some really salient points and I wanna unpack all of them. Okay. So hold. First of all. I love your scaffolds, cuz I could tell you’re a writer. I’m like, that’s a good word. Write that down scaffolds. Okay. So that creeps in. Okay. So a couple things that you said, I think are super powerful is it’s kind of like when I wrote my book,Win The Hour Win The Day and the first time I wrote it, I wrote it from a marketing angle, which I think coming, looking behind it came off too, like in the face kind of deal.
[00:23:10] So I gave it to my mother and somebody else and said, read this, what do you think? And they both came back and said, yeah, this is not, this is just not probably the tone you want. Right. so I had kind of done it upside down and I listened to them and I like, but your instinct is like my mother said, well, I’m not your ideal client.
[00:23:29] I’m like, oh yeah, you should still get it though. You should still get it right. If I have to explain it to you, it’s like a joke. It’s not funny. Right? Yeah. So then I sobered up and said, okay, fine. I gotta do this. Right. But what I realized at that point though, had I sent that to my editor, who I paid a lot for.
[00:23:44] She would’ve corrected the grammar and made it effectively edited, but she wouldn’t have said this book is not a great read, Kris and I find she wouldn’t have, so if I hadn’t have done that step, which is so important is to your earlier point is, I can’t be your voice because I wrote my voice and the first draft of the book and it didn’t work, but the editor would not, she would’ve taken my money.
[00:24:09] Understandably, cuz that’s not her job and corrected all the grammar and tightened up the paragraphs, even though they weren’t interesting. So super important point is you do have to have your own voice for someone like you to take it up a notch. And I do wanna just give you accolades. That is a powerful technique that you have to speak to their clients to get the real words, because you’re right.
[00:24:30] You’re getting it through a filter when you’re getting it through the person that hired you. Because sadly, I’m here to tell you, we’re all about systems and working less and less, but one of the things it took me years to catch on and I’m ashamed of myself, but not even just clients, but when I’m having prospect calls or discovery call or a strategy call, they will say things like, one person said, Kris, I feel like I’m a pilot, but I’m driving a bus.
[00:24:56] And I’m like, oh, I gotta write that down. Okay. Great. Speaking to their pain, whereas before we’re all talking to other… we’re talking above our clients because I’m not the… last week somebody said, Kris, I feel like I’m trying to throw darts at a dark board, but the lights aren’t on. I don’t even know if I’m hitting the board.
[00:25:13]Rachel Eubanks: And you’re like, so need that right there.
[00:25:15]Kris Ward: Yes. So now I keep those. So that’s the point too, because I think to your other point is sometimes you, when you even, I like I’ve been doing this a really long time, but when you say, okay, ask your clients what you could do better. Oh, I don’t need to ask them.
[00:25:27] I already know. And I don’t need to hear that. So I was like asking your husband, oh, do you think I can lose weight? I don’t, we don’t really want that answer. Right. So I think even just hearing, being more purposeful about how you grasp the information you’re getting from them, instead of always looking over them of how you can do better. So some really powerful points, I’m sorry. I had to unpack those continue, Rachel.
[00:25:49]Rachel Eubanks: Well now no, I wanted to go some to back to the customer thing too, is what happens as business owners, we get really wrapped up in the behind the curtains. Yeah. And here’s an example right now, there’s a lot of our product based friends who are scrambling with logistics of their… how are they gonna get their sources, their resources to their
[00:26:10] warehouse, get it created and then get it sold. Well, let me tell you something. That is what is taking 75% of your work brain right now is the supply chain. Well, the issue here is if you spend a lot of time talking about that on social media, on your blog post, I don’t wanna hurt your feelings, but your customers don’t give a dang
[00:26:31] about your supply chain. I mean, they might wanna post here and there about it, but if you’re spending a ton of time talking about supply chain issues, they don’t care. They just wanna know that they can buy their product from you. And like I said…
[00:26:43]Kris Ward: So let’s nail that down for our service based entrepreneurs. Cause yes, I don’t… we’ve got very few product base, but okay. What you’re saying is if you’re always talking about the problem you’re having with the new tech thing or this or that, or whatever pain you have behind, let’s not dive into that. We wanna make it client facing.
[00:27:00]Rachel Eubanks: Exactly. And what happens is when we have conversations with customers, it’s a good reminder to us business owners of like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
That’s what I’m fixing, because you know this, Kris, there are two sides to our business. There’s the customer facing. And then there’s behind the scenes. And when we’re writing content, we really need to be focusing on majority that needs to be customer facing. And that’s all that those customer conversations do for us is it reminds us what it is that they really care about.
[00:27:29] And then, like you said, it’s giving us the exact language of what it is that they’re worried about because someone said it very well. I can’t think of the name of the book and I feel bad because I can’t give this person credit, but it was about, she started asking on their sales calls, they were having a horrible, horrible
[00:27:48] close rate. It was a tech company that she was in charge of. They were having a horrible close rate and she was trying to figure out what was wrong. And they started asking a list of.. they started adding a list of questions. And one of the questions that they started adding to their conversations with potential customers was, well, what other products like ours are you looking at?
[00:28:12] And you know what they found when they started asking those questions, that their potential clients were listing products and opportunities that they had not even considered as competitors. So they were so wrapped up in the business. They thought they knew who their competitors were and who they were competing against in the market.
And when they actually talked to people who were going to buy from them, those companies weren’t even on their radar.
[00:28:41]Kris Ward: That’s interesting. That’s interesting too, because again, these conversations, they just remind you how you get so busy rushing to the next thing. Even I still call myself recovering rushaholic, and I’m not rushing compared to any of my clients of the Winners Circle, but you get so focused on what you’re gonna deliver next, but it really reminds me of, when we talk about service based businesses, a lot of times I’ll hear somebody say, well, you know, I started to hear people say, well, it’s my mindset.
[00:29:14] I need to my no, no, you’re in overwhelmed because you don’t have systems in play that move you forward. Don’t start buying into that mindset. Or you should be more disciplined or you should be, you’re not lazy. Listen, I’ve never met a small business owner. Or entrepreneur that was lazy.
[00:29:29] You’re just frigging can’t keep up. Right. So then I started to realize that these mindset people were my competitors, because, well, I’ve tried everything else and it’s not working is what they think. So then they think it’s a mindset thing, which to me, sorry, people I think is like chasing fog, but anyhow, so, okay.
[00:29:46] So now we also talk about too, and I know we’ve all said this before, but boy, oh boy, every time it gets brought up, I’m reminded how much I don’t tap into it is the frequently asked question.
[00:29:59]Rachel Eubanks: Yes. Okay. So this is a great lead in, because once again, we talked, customers are a treasure trove of information for you guess where these frequently asked questions come from.
[00:30:09] Oh, your customers. So yeah, I’m telling you, these are treasure trove of where you can get content ideas. Now I wanna speak to business owners most of you that are listening, you’ve been five years into this, but in case there’s someone brand new and, and this is even for anybody who’s been in business and they’re really still struggling about what content do I write on my website and in my blog or in my emails or on my social media.
[00:30:33] I do wanna tell you too, that sometimes if you’re struggling with your FAQs, look at what other people in your niche or your industry are writing about on their FAQs. because those are also fantastic pieces of resources for you. But I do have to stand on my soapbox for a second too here.
[00:30:53] And you may not plagiarize. You may not plagiarize. For some reason we believe now that think we can find things on Google. We believe that it’s just everybody. You can just copy and paste from anybody’s website. And I’m just here to tell you that’s plagiarism. Most people have either, they have fought hours and hours and hours in their brain to get those answers written in a very concise manner on their website, or they’ve paid somebody like me to do it. So when you’re taking from their website, you were stealing. I’ve just gotta say that for a second, because that is very common. Kris, I can.
[00:31:28]Kris Ward: I didn’t think that. I think I didn’t understand. You could grab pictures off the internet and that was still a problem. But I did not think you hello. Like I did not think you could copy and paste off somebody’s website, but oh.
[00:31:39]Rachel Eubanks: People do it. It’s insane. There are several of my clients. I’m not kidding. It’s insane what people do. And so I feel like I have to say that, oh, it’s you are looking for a creative, inspiration, but you’re not looking for, to steal somebody’s content.
[00:31:55]Kris Ward: No, because for me too, all what I found when I looked at other people is frequently asked questions or anything like that.
[00:32:00] If they were deemed what I wish there was a friendly word than competitor. Cause it sounds so like we’re right. Like we’re trying, it’s not enough to go around, but we’re not. Yeah. yeah. Somebody. So somebody deemed my competitor. What I found was sometimes they would mention something that I do, but I never talked about, I was like, oh, I just do that anyhow.
[00:32:18] And they’re making that sound like a big deal. So I didn’t have any interest in stealing their copy, but I was like, oh, well I get that’s up there. Yeah. I should mention that. I do that. To me, that’s just part of the package, right?
[00:32:29]Kris Ward: Exactly. Yeah. It, maybe it’s something like, I don’t know, whatever. I won’t give an example, but it really, it does open your eyes and I do the same thing.
[00:32:37] If you can read books in your niche of anyone that’s written anything similar, sometimes they’ll break down things and you can even quote the book. You can say, well, I read this book and that’s fine, but it also helps me realize, oh yeah, they’re talking about this. And I just took that as a given. Maybe I guess people don’t understand that.
[00:32:55] Or maybe I should be celebrating that point that we drive home more often. So. Okay. Yes. So frequently asked questions super important and you know, a common topic that we all dive into and has some, can sometimes sound stressing is repurposing your copy.
[00:33:12]Rachel Eubanks: No, it is so important. And I, from someone who teaches business owners not to be so stressed out, I cannot.
[00:33:20] I cannot stress enough how important repurposing your content is. And let’s just go back to this frequently asked questions for just a second. They’re frequently asked for a reason. So here, here’s what I hear sometimes. So I wanna say, well, I don’t understand, Rachel. I wrote about my onboarding process.
[00:33:37] Two months ago on a social media post. And can you believe I’m still getting questions all the time about it? Yes. Yes. I can still believe that you’re getting questions about it all the time, because let’s think about just from a learning standpoint, we have to hear things seven to a hundred times in order for us to understand it.
[00:33:58] So when I mean repurposing, I mean, sometimes you’re telling the same thing. Every two or three weeks, there is no shame in the game of taking a question that is asked often. And you talk about the beginning of June and guess what you talk about it again at the end of June on your social media, you just, you switch it up a little bit about how you address it.
[00:34:20] It doesn’t matter to me. Same thing. Take a frequently asked question and expand it out, pull it out for an actual blog post on your website. That is a huge time saver too, because then when you get that frequently asked question, you have a template set in your DMs. If you’re hot and heavy in social media, or you have a template set in your inbox and boom, you link, you are pushing them back to your website and you have it.
[00:34:48] You have it expanded and expanded on your website. So when I say repurpose, I do not say this slightly. I do not say this slightly. It’s like, I mean, I don’t know. You can just reuse it again. I’m like, no, use your stuff again and again and again, because the thing is, nobody is reading every single email, nobody is list is, is watching every single social media post that you put out there and nobody is gonna read your website and think to themselves, oh my gosh, I can’t believe she just keeps saying the same thing.
[00:35:21] And you know what if they do, if they do, you know what say thank you. I’m a fantastic educator because that’s what it takes to educate people about your business. Because that’s when they’re finally gonna start understanding, oh my gosh, this is how she onboard somebody. Or, oh my gosh, this is the middle package.
And this is really what she delivers on this package. That’s the best compliment anybody could tell you is that they’ve read it over and over again. Good.
[00:35:47]Kris Ward: You know what you’re so right, because Rachel, the thing is like, even now we’re talking about frequently asked questions a minute ago.
[00:35:53] It’s like, oh, you know what? I forgot I knew that. I forgot how important that was.How did that slip through the cracks again? I know that, right. And so sometimes you need to hear it at different points in your journey, or I often say, I thought I got it now. I really think I got it. And the next week, like, no, no, I really got it.
[00:36:08] But here’s a funny story that drives home your point. When I wrote my book, Win The Hour Win The Day. Great. Then a couple months, I dunno, maybe six months later, I had to do the audio version of my book. So there I am sitting, reading my book for the audio version. Now the funny part is why I laugh is I’m reading this book now with fresh eyes, cuz it’s been six months.
[00:36:27] Right. And of course, you’ve worked on it and you can’t even see straight by the time you proofread it so many times, right? Yes. So now I’m reading the book and I stopped. Cause I’m like, that’s a good point. So I go to write this down. I’m like, Kris, this is your book. You have written that like it’s done.
[00:36:43] So then I realize, oh my gosh, this sounds like insanity. Like you would know better, but I could just go into my book and copy and paste and do things that I made these points. But I think social media kind of makes us a little bit crazy, cuz we’re always looking at like, what’s the next thing I can do, but I was starting to make notes on my own book and the audio read, going like, oh, I should remember this.
[00:37:04] Remember it, you wrote it. You like talk about repurposing, but yes, I’m pretty heavy now. Or we’ve been passionate about TikTok the last couple of months. And one of the things I learned from somebody there, which was really profound to me, he was talking that the three in one formula. Okay. And so what he was saying is let’s say, I say here’s the three ways to save time in your day, use your calendars, time bank account, whatever, do the most important work, first thing the morning, shut off your alerts.
[00:37:30] Right? So there’s whatever, there’s a video, a post, whatever. Do the three things then do each one of them separately. So do a three and then a one, right? You’re like, oh, so I could do a 32nd video on all three. Then I could do another 32nd video on the first one and expand on it. So all of a sudden, now I’ve got four or five videos out of one concept.
[00:37:54]Rachel Eubanks: That’s brilliant. And that’s what we’re talking about with written content as well, because this brings to a point that consistency, Kris and anything. Sales and build relationships, consistency. And so I’m constantly hearing from my colleagues and from clients. So they’re like, Rachel, I just don’t know what to write.
[00:38:18] I’m like, that’s not true. That is not true. Yeah. Number one, your customers are gonna tell you, number two, you mean no one is asking those frequently asked questions really? And number three, you don’t have a bank of content already on social media webs your website. That’s not true. What you’re telling me is you think I need to write something brand new.
[00:38:37] that’s never been said before. Yes. And I’m like, hmm, maybe, but probably not because you’re in business to sell, right? You’re in business to make money. So let’s lean into, what’s gonna make money and so consistency over anything, whether it’s on TikTok, whether it’s in your email, whether it’s on your social media, whether it’s constantly updating your website, consistency over everything is what is going to sell. And I don’t care if it’s written content or video content. Consistency sells.
[00:39:06]Kris Ward: Yeah. You know what it reminds me of. I find it very powerful. And this is what I try to remember because you get so caught up in producing for your business and you go, okay, I put this post up. I didn’t get any whatever magic on it.
[00:39:19] So then you think that’s didn’t work. So you have to create something new, but you’re right. It’s about consistency. And for me, I always remember snowflakes. If you have one or two snowflakes in the palm of your hand, they just melt, but enough snowflakes in a short period of time, consistency of falling come together, you can shut down a city. So it was.
[00:39:39]Rachel Eubanks: That’s a powerful analogy, Kris, that’s a powerful…
[00:39:41]Kris Ward: Thank you. I thought of that one day during snowstorm.
[00:39:44]Rachel Eubanks: And you were like, this is beautiful.
[00:39:46]Kris Ward: Well, it is melting your hand, but the consistency of them all falling at the same time you go from, I can control you and you melt within seconds of my hand to you have shut down an airport and a city. Yes. It’s consistency. Yeah.
[00:39:56]Rachel Eubanks: And that’s a great analogy for us to see as business owners that it does take more than two snowflakes and you’re right. Yeah. Especially on social media, we’ll just get so wrapped up on that one post and believe me, I have been there. So I’m talking a really big game right here on the podcast. But I want everybody to understand that Kris, and I know that.
[00:40:19] And then at the same time, we just have to work past it that we’ve gotta get beyond those two snowflakes. Let me give you a really simple example. I was thinking about this morning, we have a local strawberry farm. They actually raise a lot of stuff, but they’re really big right now in June and July in our area.
[00:40:37] And you wanna talk about consistency. They have a Facebook page and they do not post pictures during June. Cuz you can imagine they’re in the middle of harvesting and selling the mess out of their harvest. So they are super busy, but you wanna talk about consistent every single morning, Monday through Saturday, the owner posts on Facebook about what markets they’re gonna make that day.
[00:41:03] And do you know, through her consistency that she has trained every single one of us that love her strawberries to check Facebook in the morning, to figure out which markets she’s going to be at that day and about at what time. And she will even say things like, oh guys, it rained so much yesterday. We will not be able to be in the straw patch today.
[00:41:25] But we’ll be in Madison and Dreher tomorrow by 11, with 40 gallons of strawberries. And what I’ve thought about as from my marketing brain, I’m like, you know what? This lady has done consistency so well, she sells out every day that they hit their markets. She’s done consistency so well. And she does it without all of the bells and whistles that we’re taught to do.
[00:41:49] She doesn’t do it with pictures. She’s not even doing TikToks. She has just leaned in on where her customers are at there on Facebook. They wanna know is she gonna be at that market that day? And it works. Now I know that that doesn’t work for every single business, but I just wanna lean in it. It talks about those, like those, that snowflake example that you gave where she has consistency consistent year after year after year, we know how to figure out if she’s gonna be open that day.
[00:42:17]Kris Ward: Well, yeah, because it, you know, everybody thinks your business is unique. Of course, mm-hmm we all think it’s different. And I hear that from clients. All you don’t understand my business is different. Sure. Okay. And what I would say to you though, I can see if I was a strawberry farmer and I’d be thinking, well, Rachel, there’s only so much I can do when we talk about strawberries.
[00:42:33] Like it’s only a couple weeks and here’s the strawberries. Like we can only dice this up so many different ways, there’s strawberries and you know, there’s whatever, here’s your dessert. So I can see for us, that would be our plea of what do you expect me to do with one strawberry? Right. So excellent. Okay. We are, gosh, darn it.
We are all like at a time, Rachel man, time flies with you. It’s all kinds of fun. Yeah. Okay. Tell people where they can find more of your brilliance.
[00:42:57]Rachel Eubanks: Okay, well, so I have a website Inspire To Engage. I’m the owner and founder of that. So you can head there inspire to engage on my website. Also, my email is really the best way to get ahold of me. Okay. So it’s Rachel. firstname.lastname@example.org. It’s all spelled out no spaces. That’s the best way to get ahold of me.
[00:43:21]Kris Ward: And we’ll put that in the show notes as well. All right, Rachel, you’ve been a blast, everyone else who will see you in the next episode.
END[00:43:28]Rachel Eubanks: Bye. [00:43:28]