Turn Sales Calls and Testimonials into Messaging That Converts! with Stacy Eleczko

Episode Summary

You can find Stacy Eleczko at:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/copybystacy/
Website: https://stacyeleczko.com/

Stacy Eleczko Podcast Interview

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day. And I am your host, Kris Ward. And today in the house we have Stacy Eleczko and she is a Messaging Strategist, so we’re gonna get right into it real fast. Welcome to the show, Stacy. 

[00:00:14] Stacy Eleczko: Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here, Kris. 

[00:00:16] Kris Ward: Okay. So where do we start messaging? I think it’s a powerful conversation that I think is not discussed enough. Like we just get into it and we try to put our stuff out there and we don’t even really call it messaging.

It’s like this is what I do, but the big disconnect of what I think I do or what my clients are telling me I do, or the words they’re using versus the words I’m using. We often don’t see how misaligned they are. So what are the signs? Where do we start? 

[00:00:45] Stacy Eleczko: Yeah. So most businesses, like you said, start in the wrong place.

Okay? So we tend to start with tactics instead of strategy and jump straight to things like posting more content or rewriting a website, running ads, tweaking the funnel. But those messaging tactics, when we build in, start that way, we’re usually building those based on assumptions, okay? And we start with what we think our clients value and what they want and care about what they struggle with.

Our buyers aren’t making decisions based on assumptions. They make decisions based on their own thinking. So instead of brainstorming the messaging, what we really need to do is start with evidence. 

[00:01:19] Kris Ward: Okay, so what does that look like? Where do we get that? 

[00:01:22] Stacy Eleczko: Yeah it’s literally everywhere. And so first thing before we even start gathering that messaging insight, there’s a layer underneath.

So we need a clear understanding of what positioning is first. And so I like to think of that as like a three-legged stool. So it’s understanding how you show up as a brand, right? What’s your mission, your vision, your values, your voice, all of those things. Understanding your audience deeply, which is, what we’ll talk about.

And then also understanding the market and the alternatives. Okay. And most businesses tend to focus on the two, but at a superficial level. 

[00:01:53] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:01:53] Stacy Eleczko: But when you start listening to that buyer language, that’s when you really understand like. What alternatives they considered, why those [00:02:00] alternatives didn’t work, and that’s where the differentiation comes from.

So to answer your question, most of those businesses like that insight comes from your sales conversations. Dms, email inquiries, really anywhere where you’re talking or engaged in any kind of communication with clients. 

[00:02:17] Kris Ward: Yeah, so I’ve given this example before, but I think it’s an important one where, so we find, hire and onboard virtual assistants and put them in our Leadership Program and help our entrepreneurs have, get rid of the income instability and stop working 16 hours a day and all that stuff.

And then sometimes I would get questions that to me, seemed silly. I’ve said this before, it’s like somebody said I’ve got really high end clients. I can’t have people that don’t speak English very well. I’m like why would I hire somebody doesn’t speak English very well? And then also in our own countries, we’ve got, you go to the bank and there’s somebody that doesn’t speak English very well.

So what are we talking about here? People, so I felt like I was stepping over that question, and I have marketing and background, but of course you can’t see the prescription when you’re in the bottle. So you just oh, that’s a silly question [00:03:00] because let me explain this to you. And it’s makes sense.

But if I’m getting that question, that’s the roadblock for people. That’s where my content should be, but we just go, oh, no. Let me tell you the really important stuff because it’s almost like I know the journey. You haven’t started the journey yet, so I know the highlights of it. Almost like I just saw this right now.

If you’re watching a movie with someone that hasn’t seen the movie and you’re really excited about the movie, you want them to see it and then you’re almost like, sh, no, don’t talk now. And then you’re looking at them to see what they perceive as this exciting part of the movie. But it just changes everything.

So I, I think your point, sometimes I think we minimize it when we say oh, messaging, whatever. I know what I’m talking about, but I really think we’re our own worst enemy there. 

[00:03:43] Stacy Eleczko: Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I love, I actually recently used a similar movie analogy. There’s a very different way you’ve talked about a movie after you’ve seen it. 

[00:03:51] Kris Ward: Right.

[00:03:51] Stacy Eleczko: Than when you talk about why you’re going to go see a movie. 

[00:03:54] Kris Ward: Oh, okay. 

[00:03:54] Stacy Eleczko: And so I think it’s really that same thing. And even when businesses are [00:04:00] strategic like you said, we often miss so much language and it’s not, it’s the pre-decision language and the post-decision language that we need to pay attention to.

And what we tend to do is exactly what you said like you already know where they’re headed and so that’s what we talk about, but we have to meet them where they are. The moment they’re making a decision, and that language sounds really different and it’s often not the things that we think are important, but it’s what’s showing up in their day to day.

It’s what’s causing bottlenecks, keeping him up at night. 

[00:04:29] Kris Ward: What about when it’s not in our language? Because I had someone, just a new client this week, and I thought it was really funny and she very elegant, very sophisticated, spoke, just wonderfully. And she said something to me that this other client had said a while back, and he was a very, again, articulate human being and stuff.

But he said, Kris, I’ve been doing this for 16 years, and most of the coaches out there are just like bull crap. That’s the edited version, PGE version of it, she said to me, I don’t normally believe in business coaches or anything like that, but she said, I saw your stuff and I could just see like you were no nonsense.

It was none [00:05:00] of this bull crap. And I said, oh my gosh, that’s so funny. That’s the exact same sentence as somebody else said to me. But it’s not my language. I just edited it for this show. So I wouldn’t say that. I’m not saying I never curse, it’s just not part of my, I try to avoid it. I think there’s better ways to be articulate, right?

I guess I could dance around and say how, no fluff, I’m all about no fluff, big results and stuff. But sometimes you hear things that either you misunderstand as a compliment and you’ll say, oh, that’s nice. And you don’t realize it’s messaging or it’s yeah, you’d say that about me, but I wouldn’t say that about me.

[00:05:33] Stacy Eleczko: Yeah. I love this question ’cause this is where, when I go back to that three-legged stool for positioning. Really the clearest, most precise and resonant language is a mix of all of those things. Okay? Your brand, your audience, and the market. And yes, voice of customer language, how they say things is really important ’cause you wanna resonate, but it has to sound like you or else.

That’s the quickest way to lose trust is to have inconsistent messaging and not sound like yourself and what people expect. So I think, in that case, you look at what’s the underlying thing they’re trying to get at here? Okay. Nonsense, garbage or other language that you would use because the ultimate goal with voice of customer language is you’re really just paying attention to, what are the things that are really important to them and that they value that they need to hear? Because what buyers are looking for before they make a decision is, okay, this person, I have a problem. They can solve it. They get me. They know and understand what I’m dealing with, and that builds trust. So it’s important that we speak, to in a way that they would speak, but it has to be true to your brand too. Absolutely. 

[00:06:40] Kris Ward: Okay, that makes sense. Okay, so where are some other places that we can get a pulse on? Almost hearing ourselves more clearly, because sometimes we just don’t, we, what we’re presenting or what people are saying to us or what we’re saying to ourselves are all different languages. 

[00:06:56] Stacy Eleczko: Yeah. Yeah. So I think one of my favorite places to [00:07:00] gather these customer insights is during sales or discovery calls.

[00:07:03] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:07:03] Stacy Eleczko: And that’s also the place where that disconnect shows up. So if you’ve been saying something and then you’re getting those same questions that people are asking you on sales calls or LinkedIn posts or whatever it is, you’re not saying it in the way that’s connecting. So that’s your first signal that maybe they’re not hearing what I’m putting out there.

The other thing I love is when you’re saying something you can see, especially if you’re on a video call, there’s a point where somebody kind of leans in right? Or there’s this shift and you know that what you just said resonated. And so I’m just constantly, I sit with a notebook next to me all the time and I’m jotting down like a phrase that I said, or a phrase that they said.

I’m like, oh, I would’ve never thought to say it that way. But yes, I could totally hear, other people describing it and that might be language that you wanna capture. My two favorite places to find this language are sales calls and then also in testimonials. And I have frameworks that I use for both of those to analyze and figure out what insights to pull.

[00:07:55] Kris Ward: Yeah, we do that a lot too. We have what we call a question bank, so we get the transcript, we go through [00:08:00] and pull the questions out because then they can become content, right? Yes. And also too, to your point, there’s sometimes where I’ll say something to someone and you’re like, oh, that was a good one.

Like, all right, hold on. Yes. Lemme I just heard what I said and because somebody asked me a question differently. I pulled up a different answer and then it was either a more powerful analogy or it was just like, oh, that was a good tie down, right? Yes. And so that, oh, make a note of that. Listen to yourself talk, frankly, is it.

[00:08:29] Stacy Eleczko: It’s true. And just even think about those introductions, right? When you’re at a networking event or introducing yourself, there’s a very different response if you pay attention. It could be subtle, but it’s a huge difference where people, they just nod yeah, that’s nice.

[00:08:41] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:08:41] Stacy Eleczko: Or they’re really engaged and they start asking relevant questions when you get the, that’s nice nod. That’s yep. I have no idea what you just said. 

[00:08:48] Kris Ward: Yeah. I know you done talking yet. Okay, so you guide us. What are some of the things that we miss the most? 

[00:08:56] Stacy Eleczko: Wow. So I think what we tend to miss the most [00:09:00] is we tend to take what people say at face value. And yes, we should. I’m not saying that people are being dishonest, but we are notoriously bad at humans at actually pinpointing our problems, right?

We say what we think is the issue, but really there’s 10 things lying underneath that issue, and that’s what it’s your job to uncover is you’re trying to figure out this language. Because what you wanna ultimately do is figure out what triggers buying decisions. What is the thing or the moment where the person that I help most needs the offer that I have. And that’s the moment that you wanna speak to. So I think that people really miss this. Like why now? What’s that sense of urgency? And then the other thing that they often miss is, following up when people are talking about things they did that maybe didn’t work before or why those attempts didn’t work.

Because that helps us speak to what hesitations they might have. It helps under. It shows who your competition is, like what you’re up against. Because we often think our competition is, [00:10:00] a copywriter thinks it’s the other copywriter. No, it’s often not that It could be using AI, it could be just, doing nothing.

Yeah. And those are the things that we uncover where what we tend to listen for is okay, they said they want this problem solved. Now let me just go and tell them how I solve that problem. But what they really want solved is how that problem is showing up in their day to day and making their life more challenging.

[00:10:22] Kris Ward: That is a good point because I know with a lot of my clients, they think they just need more discipline or once they get past this next thing, things will be different. Or I thought for years, what I call my dark years, if I just went faster, that was my superpower. Multitasking, which is doing two things at the same time poorly.

And they don’t even see that. No, it’s just the setup. It’s just your setup. Or they’ve burned through four or five VAs. Yes you have because you can maybe get a VA, but keeping them as a whole nother thing. And it’s really not about your personality or character flaws. So me letting them know, if you learn one thing from me, it’s just the setup that is working against you.[00:11:00] 

And that is such a relief to them and such a powerful thing. And they just don’t even know that. 

[00:11:05] Stacy Eleczko: Yeah. Yeah, it’s so true, and that’s why I just think, again, those sales calls. I call mine discovery calls and it really is about discovering and understanding like what is, what are they really trying to solve?

Because when I can speak to that, then I can give them the actual solution that they need. We can figure out if this is the best fit, but you also give them some reassurance. ’cause generally when people come to us, I imagine by the time they get to you, they’re probably so overwhelmed. 

[00:11:28] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:11:28] Stacy Eleczko: That the last thing they need is more overwhelmed.

Yeah. They need you to be that calm to say, yeah. I see you. I get that you’re overwhelmed. Here’s how I can help alleviate that for you. 

[00:11:37] Kris Ward: Yeah. That’s a good point. Okay, so we’re not listening to ourselves talk step number one, the why now? I think that’s a powerful one. I think we don’t address that enough.

Like why now? Okay. I’ve heard some people that offered that information, even though I didn’t ask it. It’s like their marriage is getting strained. Or I had one guy [00:12:00] that was, he said months away from a heart attack or, they can’t sleep at night. They’re they’re too tired to sleep at this point.

So I think that why now is a powerful one. 

[00:12:08] Stacy Eleczko: Yes. ’cause that’s what you wanna speak to. All of the things that you solve, putting systems in place. Yeah. Or for me, helping them feel clear and confident about what they’re saying. Those are all great things, but they don’t solve that underlying issue that’s driving the I need this thing now because.

We, we always tend to wait until things are urgent to actually take care of them, right? Yeah. We’re very rarely proactive about things, and so there is that moment and we need to step in and be ready for when our buyers are at that moment with the messaging that connects with them at that time. 

[00:12:41] Kris Ward: Now, another place you talk about mining information like that is in testimonials.

[00:12:46] Stacy Eleczko: Yeah, so those are super useful. So the reason I love discovery calls is because those are pre-decision language, right? That’s what you’re listening for when they’re buying. I also love testimonials. And those are great and those are post-decision language and [00:13:00] they’re still really useful. But I would say the mistake people make is they just go to this post-decision language, like testimonials or reviews. But that’s again, like telling somebody about the movie after you’ve already seen it.

But they’re still super useful. And I actually have a great story I’d love to share. But first I’ll tell you the three things I listened for.

[00:13:19] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:13:19] Stacy Eleczko: When I’m looking at testimonials and I’ll I actually have a resource that spells out the seven things I look for in sales calls. The three in testimonials. So I’ll share that with you. You can link your audience. Okay. But I look for three things and that is basically what’s the problem? They were trying, they were described before they were working with you. 

[00:13:37] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:13:37] Stacy Eleczko: With then what’s the moment that something kind of clicks? So what was a turning point for them? And then what was the outcome that mattered most to them? Okay. An example I have, and I work primarily with B2B. This is a B2C example, but still just as relevant.

I love this story. So I worked with an acupuncture clinic and they had been trying to position themselves as not your traditional acupuncture, [00:14:00] and that was true. Nobody knew what that meant, right? Yeah. Okay. Not great. So it just didn’t resonate. And so what I did is I went through, they had tons and tons of testimonials and as I was going through the same things kept showing up over and over.

’cause that’s the other thing you wanna look for is what are the patterns? Don’t just take one testimonial at face value. And they were showing up from their ideal clients, the kinds of people that they wanted to continue to serve. And so what was showing up is people kept saying things like, I’d gone to PT for years and I was still in pain.

Or, I’ve already been to the orthopedist and there was nothing they could do. I’ve been on medication, I was considering surgery. I’ve tried other acupuncturists. I tried everything. They just kept saying nothing worked. The relief was temporary. And so when they came, but with my client, what their experience was, the after was I had three or four sessions, and this pain I’ve had for years was no longer an issue.

It was gone. And so the clinic fixed the methods [00:15:00] like all these other couldn’t. So we literally put on their t-shirts, we fix what your PT can. 

[00:15:06] Kris Ward: Right. 

[00:15:06] Stacy Eleczko: And that was the messaging. And all of the sudden with that was literally the only shift that we made. Their clients started buying the t-shirts.

People would see them, ask them about them. Now their referrals started coming with stories and they were getting all of these people coming in who were like, oh, I had never considered acupuncture but I talked to someone else and they said you do it differently than others. You did. You fixed with your PT couldn’t fix.

And that was what they meant by not your traditional acupuncture. But they would’ve never gotten there had we not gone through all of these testimonials. 

[00:15:37] Kris Ward: And that’s a really good point. And that is true about acupuncture. ’cause I do go to acupuncture. But also, I think what would happen, most of us would get caught up in that.

Yeah, the frustration of we know we do something very different. Physical therapy doesn’t work. Why don’t people see that? Like it would almost just be the injustice of it all. Not using that. As a clarity of a message, right? 

[00:15:59] Stacy Eleczko: [00:16:00] Yes. 

[00:16:00] Kris Ward: It took me a long time too, like we’re not an outsourcing agency. It’s one tool that we use and it’s often the thing that people are most interested in, but it’s one like yours.

The three prongs of a stool and why we’re not an outsourcing agency is ’cause first of all, outsourcing agencies, they’re expensive and then you’re paying the them and they pay the VA. Often they undercut the VA, and the VA has to sign a non-disclosure agreement so you don’t know how much they’re paying them.

And then if you leave that contract, you don’t keep the VA. Or sometimes the VA is rotated to what they perceive to be a higher paying, more important client and they don’t prepare. They don’t teach you how to work with the VA. There’s all these things, right? And so it took me a really long time to even be saying.

Hey, this is a problem with outsourcing agencies and why you at least need to know this. ’cause it doesn’t, it’s not good for you. It’s not good for the VA. And for a longest time I would just be like, I don’t know. Like they shouldn’t be doing it that way I think. And we’re doing it our way. And you take the noble in the right road, never wanting to get into a mud [00:17:00] slinging contest with them.

And I don’t have to, ’cause I don’t need to name the agencies. I just need to see that this business model, I think has flaws in it, but I think so many of us just go I don’t even know why people are using VA agencies in a indignant tone, and we never think of using that as our messaging. 

[00:17:16] Stacy Eleczko: Yes. That’s such a good point.

And I’ll say with this clinic, when I first, suggested this idea, they were like, that’s a little bold. And I was like, it is bold, but I think it’s good. And that’s why we started with t-shirts. We’re like, let’s just make some t-shirts. Like we don’t have to slap this everywhere, but let’s see what happens. And now they’ve got it all over their messaging because 

[00:17:32] Kris Ward: yeah, 

[00:17:32] Stacy Eleczko: it really was so clear. But yeah, you’re exactly right. And it’s the same thing. I’m just thinking if I had said to them, you need better copy on your website, or something like that, not really effective. But when my messaging is you don’t understand why people don’t see the value that you provide, right?

You don’t see it. They don’t see what sets you apart. Then, yeah, that’s this indignant. Like I don’t see this. Why can’t they? ’cause what is so obvious to us is not obvious to anybody else, nor [00:18:00] should it be. Yeah. Like we feel like it should be because we’re in our day to day, but everybody else is in their busy with their day to day too. So we have to really clearly connect those dots for them. 

[00:18:09] Kris Ward: And that’s good point, because not to pick on those poor physiotherapists, but I would roll my eyes at that too. I have never seen anybody go to physiotherapy and come back like, unless you re had to be, in a major car accident and get out of a wheelchair, something where you’re fully rehabilitated, but just go and, lift your elbow up of your, over your head to stretch. I’ve never seen that work, so to me, I would’ve just been like rolling my eyes going, I had to go once ’cause I was in a car accident and I kid you not to, I’m not judging her, I’m just saying the facts were, the woman that was helping me was incredibly outta shape and incredibly overweight and she was teaching me about physio.

I was like, I don’t think the message is coming out clear here. I don’t, I think there’s an incongruency here, and so I would’ve been the acupuncturist just rolling my eyes going, no, that industry is problematic. Like I, I wouldn’t have saw that as an avenue of communication. 

[00:18:59] Stacy Eleczko: And that’s why, [00:19:00] again, it is that idea, like you said at the very beginning, that we can’t see the label from inside the jar. 

Yeah, 

[00:19:05] Kris Ward: yeah. 

[00:19:05] Stacy Eleczko: We can’t. It’s so hard, and I think that the hardest thing too is the more expertise you have in what you do. Actually, the harder it is to clearly communicate that simply, we forget about how when we first started doing the things we do, how we talked about it, or before we even did it.

And so we tend to drift into like insider language or jargon very unintentionally. We don’t even realize that we’re doing it right, but really what we need to do is just put ourselves back in that position of, okay. How do we just say this in simple terms? Not because people are dumb, right? But they don’t have time, nor is this, again, it’s not what they live in every day, and so we just need to make, again, connect those dots really clearly for them.

Very simply, this is what I can help you with and here’s why. 

[00:19:52] Kris Ward: And to that point, again, as someone who does do acupuncture regularly, and when I recommend it to others, the first thing I have to explain is, no, it doesn’t hurt. It’s quite [00:20:00] relaxing. You fall asleep on the table. It’s like a really good massage.

Oh, I didn’t know that. That’s why I never went. ’cause it hurts. So I’m running around bend the gospel and I’m like, why do they not tell people it’s not the needles you think it is? They’re like little hair fibers that they tap into you. And no, everyone thinks it’s like I’m, you’re, I don’t know Bruce Lee on this bed of needles.

They. There’s so many assumptions out there that you’re right, that could be the same for all of us. There’s these big, broad assumptions that we’re just rolling our eyes at going we should be dispel. Dispelling that myth. 

[00:20:28] Stacy Eleczko: Yes, and I think both of those things should come into play. Those frequently asked questions, the things you hear all the time, then those are definitely things, not necessarily that need to make it into your main messaging all the time, but you have to address those in your content. Yeah. There’s a reason why you put FAQs on a website. It’s not just to take up space. It’s because people have questions Yeah. That they’re really curious about.

And they do wanna know things like you can speak to how you can relieve pain or fix things that other, modalities couldn’t resolve. But then what they’re also wondering is but does it hurt? 

[00:20:57] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:20:58] Stacy Eleczko: So have that as an FAQ in there, [00:21:00] even though to you, it doesn’t hurt, the acupuncturist knows it doesn’t hurt.

Depending on depending on the situation. If you have severe pain, it can have had acupuncture for that too. 

[00:21:08] Kris Ward: If you’ve got a bruise and you push the bruise hurts. Yeah. 

[00:21:11] Stacy Eleczko: But but yeah, there, if we just listen more carefully than we and more often than we talk.

Our clients are telling us everything that we need to know, that we need to put in our messaging and in our copy. 

[00:21:23] Kris Ward: Yeah, and that’s such a powerful statement, and I think it’s easier said than done because you’re working so hard on what the accumulation of your experience, expertise, and you’re right.

You’re trying to get them to where you think they should be, not where they are. And so it’s really just noise until you’re like no. I so super excited I can get you over here. And that is really something that I had to work on over the years where I all of a sudden would hear myself say something in it, a discovery call going, oh, like I that, write that down, write, do a post on that.

Start putting that in all your discovery calls. Did you hear what [00:22:00] you said? And we’re, because we’re, because in fairness, I guess you can’t do both. In fairness, we’re trying to listen to the prospect, really hear their pain, their problem, how we can help you make notes. Yes. I’m listening to everything you say, and I guess I can’t listen to two people ’cause I wasn’t listening to me.

[00:22:17] Stacy Eleczko: Yeah. So this is why I record every call with permission. Of course. Yeah. But that’s, I constantly go back through those transcripts after looking for all of that language. ’cause you’re right, like I’ll jot things down here and there, but it is hard to really listen, pay attention, and also capture all of those things.

So that’s why, but I also, once you do it, you get used to what you’re listening for. 

[00:22:38] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:22:38] Stacy Eleczko: And so that’s always my recommendation is people, how can I pay attention for all of those things? Don’t pay attention for everything. Maybe just pay attention for where are they hesitating? 

[00:22:47] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:22:47] Stacy Eleczko: And then write down those hesitations.

And once you’re used to listening for that. Then now start listening for hesitations and maybe what triggered them to call you in the first place. Yeah. But yeah, that’s, I love recording everything. I’m constantly [00:23:00] going through my transcripts for that language. 

[00:23:02] Kris Ward: Yeah. And you can even now stick it into AI and say, show me the top questions or patterns or whatever.

Okay. Where can people find more of your brilliance, Stacy? 

[00:23:12] Stacy Eleczko: So I am generally on LinkedIn. Okay. So they can definitely connect with me there. I will share again that resource that I have for you that gives them exactly what to look for in sales calls and in testimonials, how to pull that language. And they can connect me with my, through my newsletter with that.

And then also my website, which is just my name, S-T-A-C-Y-E-L-E-C-Z-K O.com. Just go straight to LinkedIn. You find me there. We can connect and I can… we can get started that way. 

[00:23:41] Kris Ward: That would be fantastic. Okay. Lots of content here. Make sure you share it with a business buddy. Do not have them banging around by themselves.

There’s lots of stuff here that would help anybody… any entrepreneur, founder, or small business owner. We will see you in the next episode and thank you again, Stacy. 

[00:23:56] Stacy Eleczko: Thank you so much for having me, Kris