Your Boring Life Is Actually Great Content! With Toby Myles

Episode Summary

3rd Interview Toby Myles

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day, and I am your host Kris Ward.

And today in the house we have Toby Myles, and we have brought her back. She is a fantastic storytelling coach, and she does it with such a subtleness, a grace, and just a really interesting approach to storytelling. So I thought, let’s dive deeper, ’cause gosh almighty, in this day and age of AI, every hour every minute of every day they’re telling us, “Tell your own story. Be authentic. Blah, blah, blah.” So welcome to the s- welcome to the show, Toby. 

[00:00:30] Toby Myles: Thank you, Kris. I’m excited to be here with you. 

[00:00:33] Kris Ward: Okay, let’s get to it. We understand that storytelling gives us deeper connections, and which helps us with leads and sales, right? And I swear sometimes I think I need a tattoo on this, because we just, we fall into…

you get into work and then you think, “Okay, this is what I do. Here’s how I help entrepreneurs. Here’s my business.” And so then you wanna push out that content. And then I am getting better, although my team helps me, ’cause I swear [00:01:00] if I, there was a accident, my… I don’t even know. I don’t wanna put any sort of harm in my manifesting for myself here.

But anything that happens, it doesn’t matter what happens to me or what near miss I went through or some drama in my life, somebody on my team will go that would be a good story for LinkedIn. I think we should write that down.” I’m like, “Okay, excuse me, I’m still recovering from what just happened here.

Could we have a moment about me before we say this is a good story?” So I think people are starting to realize, ah. And f- first of all, I’m, I have so much to say, so I… Yes, welcome to the show. We will let you talk. I guess for us, when I read somebody else’s story and I see, “Oh, that’s so relatable,” and it may seem mundane, but it’s so relatable.

But then I always struggle with the m- relatable stuff that seems mun- I, you just think nobody cares about your story, but then you read somebody else’s and you’re like geez, I could have talked about that. It seems so simple.” So it’s so confusing to me, I think. 

[00:01:56] Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, I think that you touched on something that- [00:02:00] a lot of my clients and members in my community talk about is that, how do I take this moment that happened, and we call them everyday stories, how do I take this moment that happened and turn it into something that teaches a lesson?

And that is, that’s like where I say, “Okay, time out. That’s not what you need to do.” Sometimes there’s a very obvious lesson, and it’s perfectly okay, in fact, I encourage my clients to do this, is if there’s like a real clear through line from something that happened- Yeah … to a business lesson, absolutely share it.

But that is not the only purpose of sharing your stories. It’s exactly what you talked about. They’re relatable, right? Something that happened to you also happened to some- somebody else and another person, and they’re gonna see that, and they are gonna feel connected to you right away, immediately.

They’re like, “Wow, Kris locked her keys in the car and had to, call a locksmith,” and all the whole thing, right? And I could be saying, “Oh my gosh, I [00:03:00] remember that feeling. Like it’s so frustrating when you lock your keys in the car,” right? And so it is very often like the simplest moments, everyday moments.

Not like something big you climbed Mount Everest- 

[00:03:12] Kris Ward: Yeah … 

[00:03:12] Toby Myles: or, you- 

[00:03:13] Kris Ward: I’ve been sober for 17 years- Exactly. 

[00:03:15] Toby Myles: Exactly … 

[00:03:16] Kris Ward: and today I woke up and vomited.

[00:03:16] Toby Myles: Exactly. And I’m like okay, I’m gonna do that.” No. 

[00:03:18] Kris Ward: What am I gonna do? 

[00:03:18] Toby Myles: Exactly. Yeah. Like a, most of us, many of us didn’t have those major experiences.

Yeah. But we are faced with story-worthy moments every day of our lives, and the key is to start noticing them and documenting them. Hands down, the number one skill of good storytelling is noticing and documenting. 

[00:03:37] Kris Ward: You bring up a good point, because I think we all fall prey to that in the beginning, and I’ve seen that where other people, they try to tie down a story, and it could be like, “I’m in Australia,” and whatever.

“The water is a different color here,” and then that reminds me of business back in- … the US, and you’re like, “Wait, what? Why don’t I see the leap?” Yeah. So then people do that. But I know I was watch- I read a thing on LinkedIn the other day, and she was talking about n- just something like [00:04:00] she made a joke.

I forget what it was. Like, she would sooner jump out of a second-story building than be in a Zoom call and they say, “We’re gonna have five minutes in a breakaway room,” right? And I was like, oh my gosh. See, I just thought I was a really bad human being, ’cause I seriously would chew off my own arm rather than back in the day when you’d be in a board meeting and they’d say, “We’re gonna have warm-up exercise, get to know your group.”

It’s “Listen, let’s just… Teach me what you need to teach me- Yeah … and get me out of here,” right? And I wouldn’t have put that up before, ’cause I just thought it would show how shallow and horrible and impatient I am, and we’re trying to keep that a secret, right? 

[00:04:31] Toby Myles: Yeah. 

[00:04:31] Kris Ward: But w- what it did was I wrote a post then about I had seen something.

I hopped into Facebook, ’cause I like to go to Marketplace and get little treasures there and antique stuff. And when I hopped in, I saw this thing that was gonna be happening right by my house that they… A lovely post where they said, “Listen, we’re playing pickleball. There’s a bunch of us. We even have extra paddles.

If you ever thought, we’re a friendly group.” And I had wanted to play pickleball, but I didn’t know anyone that did it, so I thought, “Oh my gosh, I think I’m, gonna put my big girl [00:05:00] pants on and go over tomorrow.” Yeah. Now, I’m not shy. That’s not my problem. My problem if I get over there and they’re annoying or cliquish or competitive or jerks- how will I fake an emergency in my family and- … get the hell out of there? Now, I would’ve never said that before, ’cause I would’ve just thought it’s kinda edgy and rude, and if you don’t know me, I sound like- not a nice person. But after I saw her post about that in the Zoom meetings, I thought, “Okay, I’m gonna stretch this and write- this a bit more,” ’cause it’s more relatable. I just don’t wanna get stuck with annoying people, right?

Yeah. And so now I realize, okay, that’s a relatable story, ’cause hers is so relatable, and I laughed and agreed with it. But I would’ve just thought that’s painting me…” We’re trying to keep that part of my personality suppressed, right?

So I think that’s the thing I keep coming back to, is when you- when somebody else writes it, it’s a really small moment, but it’s funny, it’s relatable. And then we… you’re right, we have to learn how to suss out our own stories- … without frigging trying to fit them into a business model, right? Just be us. And [00:06:00] I find that’s where we’re all struggling. 

[00:06:02] Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That is a huge piece of it. Yes, we have things to teach. We want people to understand who we are, who we serve, how they can work with us. We need all of those things. But there’s so much noise online, so much noise, and so many people using AI to write their content.

And I’m not slamming AI. I use it as well. I don’t use it to write my content, but I use it for other systems- Yeah … in my business. So I’m not knocking it. But the problem is that a lot of what you read just sounds so generic and honestly boring. Yeah … I’m not even gonna apologize for saying that, because I go on LinkedIn and I get very easily bored.

I’m like, “Someone tell me a story, please. I’m begging you,” right? And but because there’s so much noise and there’s so many people who we could work with, we don’t- no one stands out. We don’t know who to work with. Yeah. We don’t know who to choose. And so someone sharing a story, like I would’ve seen that story that you just told about [00:07:00] pickleball- Yeah and I’ll be like, “Oh my gosh, like this… I wanna work with Kris because I can relate to this.” I t- I don’t have time for like small talk and, and- Yeah … cattiness and whatever, and if I s- meet someone and I need a coach, I need to hire a coach, and I see someone that’s like she, we think the same thing, we see eye to eye, I’m like, “That’s somebody I would wanna work with.”

[00:07:20] Kris Ward: Let’s just get to it. 

[00:07:21] Toby Myles: Let’s just get to it. Yeah. 

[00:07:22] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, my pet peeve is when you get your hair cut you can just cut my hair. I- please don’t ask me as a grown ass adult what I’m doing this weekend. You are not 19. We’re not hoping to hit… Like you, I heard you telling me about a party that I didn’t know is e- is this…

What are you doing this weekend? Do you wanna hear about my chores? W- … I’m not gonna do anything that interests you. Or- … I’m going kayaking, I’m doing all these fun things that you don’t do. Why are we doing this? Could you just cut my hair? Cut my hair. 

[00:07:47] Toby Myles: Yes. I will say that I do love my hairdresser, and we do actually have a lot in common, which we have found out over the years.

[00:07:52] Kris Ward: But you like her. 

[00:07:53] Toby Myles: But I like her, she likes me. But to your point, I don’t, I’m like, I always say, “Go deep or go home.” Yeah. If [00:08:00] we can’t have a real conversation- 

… 

[00:08:01] Toby Myles: Beyond whatever, the weather and the lawn company didn’t come, what- whatever it is, like I, I wanna go deep. I wanna know who you are, what brought you to this point.

[00:08:11] Kris Ward: Yeah. I want- Don’t ask me a question just for the sake of asking me one. 

[00:08:14] Toby Myles: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And don’t ask me like how I am, ’cause I’m gonna tell you how I am. If I feel like- Yeah … crap today, I’m gonna tell you that’s how I feel. 

[00:08:22] Kris Ward: So that makes it… Okay, I get it, then people will see my stuff and say, “Okay, Kris is no-nonsense like me,” or we have the same vibe.

And I have seen that, where you do like people. Like I’ve been, recently I went on a trip and we were in a store, and this woman was so lovely and so good with her sales, and such a good storyteller, and she was showing us different pieces that she did in pottery, made herself, and told us about her son.

And now I’m walking around the store going, “I have got to find something to buy.” Like- Yeah. … I am going to find something that I want. I have got to make this happen because- … I liked her so much. I was like, “Please show me something that I can justify buying,” because I was doing it for her. 

[00:08:56] Toby Myles: Yeah.

I think that’s huge. We all in the [00:09:00] online space and who are marketing our businesses, we have heard over and over again about know, and trust. And I don’t care what people say, it comes down to know, and trust. It always comes back to that, I think about if I need something done to my home- Who am I going to hire?

I’m gonna go to my neighbors first. Yeah. Who did your roof, w- who’s your cable company? You know- Yeah … do you know a good plumber, right? And so that’s a trust piece initially, right? My neighbors trusted them, they did a good job, I’m gonna trust this person. So that’s… So those things that getting to know someone, having that trust, and then liking them.

I’ve heard people say, “Ah, I don’t need to like someone to work with them.” Maybe you don’t, but I wanna work with people that I like. 

[00:09:43] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:09:44] Toby Myles: I just do, and I get to because I’ve decided that I- Yeah … get to work with people that I like. 

[00:09:49] Kris Ward: It does make it a lot easier, I’ll tell you that. Yeah. I’ve done it both ways, and this way is much more fun.

[00:09:54] Toby Myles: Yes. 

[00:09:54] Kris Ward: Okay. So what makes a good story, and when do we… my [00:10:00] grandfather could teach a course in how to make a l- long story longer, dear God, right? So in my family, if somebody starts to get bored with your story or they feel it’s too long, they say, “Okay, wrap it up, Reuben.” Yeah. So that’s my grandfather’s name.

And I do see that on LinkedIn sometimes too. I don’t I don’t even know where we’re going with this, right? Yeah. So where do we begin and end with a story? 

[00:10:20] Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah inside my course, the Core Eight Story Hub, I teach a framework that’s called TESS, and TESS stands for Trigger, Emotion, Shift, and Share.

And I didn’t invent the storytelling arc, but I came up with this acronym because it’s really easy for people to remember, and to be able to look at things that happen every day and say, “Ooh, is that a story?” So trigger is like what, what set the story in motion? Was it a conversation?

Was it an emotion? Was it a conflict? Any number of things can be your trigger. And then emotion, you name that emotion. What happened, you kinda define what was the trigger point. [00:11:00] And then shift is, every story is, even in a small way, is this is who I was when it started, this is who I was after.

There is some shift, some change that happens. Change of point of view, a resolution. And then share is how do you share it, what does it become? Does it become social media content? Are you gonna write a blog post about it? Are you gonna send an email to your list, right? And so that’s like the overarching framework.

I would say that the shorter, the better. If you can get right to that trigger, right to that ah moment- that something happened without a whole long lead in- Yes …

[00:11:37] Kris Ward: yeah. 

[00:11:38] Toby Myles: That we don’t need that. You wanna drop that, that audience right into that moment. I was at the grocery store and I dropped a jar of pickles right in the checkout line, and pickle juice went everywhere.

That is a start to my story, and then I can tell you what happened after the fact. 

[00:11:53] Kris Ward: Somebody said something to me that resonated with me. It was like, you think about good Netflix movie where all of a sudden you turn it on and you’re [00:12:00] in the middle of something, chaos. Yep. And now your job is to catch up and figure it out.

Because I know if I was talking to you as a friend, that I might say, “Oh my gosh, I was driving home and, whatever. I was… my c- my t- I got a flat tire. And the reason I was driving home is ’cause my sister just had a baby. I came back from my sister’s. Normally I wouldn’t be out this time of night.”

“So it was really late, when normally…” W- they don’t need that in the story, right? No. So I’ve had to learn how to… Or sometimes I even struggle where I have to strip the story down to make it more effective and take out a fact that I’m like, ooh, that kinda changes a l- like, that didn’t happen in that order, and it bothers me. And somebody’s “Kris, it’s not a documentary.” 

[00:12:39] Toby Myles: And it’s 

[00:12:40] Kris Ward: And I’m like, but it keeps the story cleaner. I’m not misrepresenting it, but it’s like they don’t need that detail. No. So you’re right. S- being mindful and mining it, I guess that’s a skill set in its own. Yeah, 

[00:12:52] Toby Myles: yeah. 

[00:12:52] Kris Ward: Edit, yeah. 

[00:12:53] Toby Myles: Edit, ed- ruthless- Yeah ruthless editing. And I think that it just takes practice, right? It’s not, people say, [00:13:00] “Oh, you’re a natural storyteller.” Maybe. My mind is I’ve been an introvert my whole life, and so instead of being in the middle of things, very often I’m on sidelines noticing and observing. So maybe that makes me a natural noticer.

But building a story that people are gonna actually be interested in, that’s a skill. Yeah. That’s a skill anybody can learn. 

[00:13:21] Kris Ward: Yeah. And I think, too, do you find also w- like, s- making sure it’s present tense or first person if you’re, e- especially if you’re trying to trigger that emotion instead of something that happened to you?

[00:13:33] Toby Myles: Yes, yeah. Okay. I’m walking down the road, and all of a sudden I spot a tree in the middle of the road, it’s, you- … the person is right there with you. And being specific. Okay. The more specific you can be about a situation, not just I passed the store. What store was it?

Tell me. Okay. Put me right there so that I feel like I am right there with you in that moment, it was the s- the tractor supply with the- Yeah … with the, its chicks. The chicks are here this day, s- some [00:14:00] specificity is- 

[00:14:01] Kris Ward: Okay … 

[00:14:02] Toby Myles: so important in storytelling. 

[00:14:04] Kris Ward: What are some of the big mistakes that you see as you’re scrolling by?

[00:14:08] Toby Myles: As I’m scrolling by? I see a lot of AI, for one thing, 

[00:14:13] Kris Ward: which- And I will say, listen, I’m not the expert that you are, and I have said this a couple times on this show, but it’s worth repeating, is w- find- we find, hire, and onboard virtual assistants- 

… 

[00:14:21] Kris Ward: For our Leadership Program to work with people like you.

You get that. And lately, the, one of the first things we do is the cover letter, ’cause I wanna see the cover letter, how they communicate. A lot of times, I don’t even look at their resume, but how they can communicate with me on the cover letter is, tells me a lot, right? How they itemize things, the language they use, whatever.

And all of a sudden I’m like, “Wait, these are the same,” right? Yeah. So I’m looking for personality. I’m looking for words you use. I’m looking… You can tell a lot from an energy of email. You’re a fantastic email person. Even if I would like to think I’m engaging in life, my emails come out very factual okay boom, right?

And whatever. So that craft of having personality in text is a whole thing. It’s a whole nother conversation. [00:15:00] But and then I started seeing, oh, they’re using AI. And I caught a few of them out of the corner of their eye trying to read an AI script that they think will make them sound better.

Yeah. And I’m like, I’m looking to see how you think on your feet and how smart you are, and I wanna see your personality, ’cause you’re gonna be paired with one of my clients, and I’m trying to match your personality to theirs. And so this just waters you down like nobody’s business with AI.

So I don’t have the intellect or capability to check out and see that this is AI-written story versus that other one, or maybe I just skim over them and don’t even notice what I don’t notice. But I’m even seeing it in interviews, and I can tell you that’s the worst thing they can do, ’cause I am 100% looking for their personality, that they’re a go-getter and they think on their feet.

I always hire personality over skill set, and that’s getting buried in AI. So I’m sure storytelling is just worse. 

[00:15:51] Toby Myles: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I just think that I think people feel the need to move quickly, [00:16:00] produce tons of content quickly, show up every single day with something every single day, and to me that’s a mistake.

I would rather see one really well-told story that shows your personality, that makes me feel like I know you a little bit better one post per week, rather than– 

… 

[00:16:18] Toby Myles: Just generic content every single day. That gets you nowhere. 

[00:16:23] Kris Ward: I think, too, something recently, even before AI, that I realized, and that we’re all learning how to, sound like we talk it should sound like a conversation when you’re doing a post, is that now I look back and I think, that’s not all about AI and all about whatever.

It’s all a… Part of it’s about being taught to sound and look professional. So you see something that AI wrote and you go, “Oh, that sounds good.” And also, we were taught with textbooks and essays the essays were never about my personality, they were about get the facts out and do it in a orderly and professional way.

And that is tends to be dry. Yeah. So I think I can see where people get seduced with [00:17:00] AI, ’cause then you put your thought in and then that looks well-written- Yeah … and you think, “Oh, we can’t have a dangling participle and that, that grammar’s wrong,” or whatever. But then you go over there and somebody’s doing a hot mess of grammar, but their post is funny and getting all kinds of engagement, ’cause it is a platform for us to connect with and talk.

It’s not an essay platform. And I think that’s where we… I know me, that’s where I would get confused in the beginning, thinking I am making this so polished that I wear it down till it’s just whitewashed veneer, like it’s n- it’s nothing. But I’m thinking I look professional and there’s- good grammar,

[00:17:33] Toby Myles: yeah. It’s funny ’cause I’m working with a client right now, helping her with some website copy, and she started her first draft with AI and then came to me. She’s on very tight schedule so I get it, it was faster to kinda get her thoughts out. And so I, I did some editing, I did a analysis of her voice based off an interview.

And so I’m trying to clean things up, make it sound less AI. But she [00:18:00] messaged me this morning, she’s “I really feel like this is not- telling the heart of my story, and she wrote something else entirely that I’m in the middle of reviewing now. But she realized herself “This is- Yes

this isn’t me. It doesn’t sound like me. It doesn’t sound like anything that I would say.” And so I think that we can check ourselves, right? If you’re gonna use AI, you’re gonna use it. I- no one’s, there’s no AI police who are gonna stop you. But take a beat and look at it and say, “Does this even sound like anything I would say?

Does it sound like how a human would talk,” right? Ch- you know, chopped up sentences. AI’s “Oh it’s not this, but it’s this.” There’s definitely- yeah … some AI 

[00:18:39] Kris Ward: tells. They’re trying to help you out, 

[00:18:39] Toby Myles: yeah. But look, review it yourself before you post something and say, “Is this how I would actually tell this story?”

And if it’s not you don’t have to just slap it up there. Go through it and make edits. AI got you a quarter of the way. Now clean it up and make it your own. 

[00:18:55] Kris Ward: I think too, even before AI, the whole, like I said, the whole idea of how [00:19:00] I talk and how I write are two different worlds. Yes. 

[00:19:02] Toby Myles: Yeah. 

[00:19:02] Kris Ward: And I think that right there is the problem.

We sh- we’re st- we were still working on that, and then they introduced AI. So even learning just to write how I talk, how I sound with you is never how my writing looked, and it’s “Oh, okay, I gotta sound more…” Even if AI had never been invented, I, we were already, all, many of us were already struggling with that.

[00:19:21] Toby Myles: Oh, yeah, for sure. I actually had somebody tell me, “You shouldn’t use s- sorta slang words, like instead of going to, I would say gonna, G-O-N-N-A, right? But that’s how I talk. That’s how most humans talk. Yeah. And so yes, I am going to write that way. My emails are very much that way, how I would speak to another human.

And that’s my goal. That’s what I’m going for. I want it to sound like you can hear me in your head telling you this story. I think that’s what we should all go for. I’ve… When I was d- when I was doing primarily email copy and email strategy, I would teach my clients write as if you’re writing to one person.

Think of somebody- Yeah … a [00:20:00] client, a friend, your mother, your husband, whatever, and write this email as if you were writing it to that person, and see how different it becomes. Because now you’re visualizing that one person on the other end. How would you speak to that person, right? Not, like, all formal and everything. This is somebody that you know, right? 

[00:20:17] Kris Ward: Yeah, talking instead of presenting. I know when I wrote my book, that’s something she gave me grief about, is I would say w- would not have or whatever. She said, “You have to say can’t, won’t, wouldn’t have,” like- … and I was like, “Oh, my gosh. I went to college university, and now…”

And she just kept saying- … “Enough with the long form. It has to be, sound like you talk.” And I was like, “Oh, my gosh.” “What the hell was all that about?” Yeah. And also, something else I try to remind myself of, it’s here we are talking, the podcast is very conversational. I get a lot of compliments on this show about how they feel like they’re just listening in to a conversation that they’re a part of.

And it’s full of flaws and mistakes and- … me mumbling my words or jumbling my words. I just jumbled my words about jumbling my words. I was trying to say jumbling, I said mumbling. And that’s considered to be valuable, [00:21:00] but then when we turn to write something, we think, “Oh, this has to… It’s carved in stone, and it has to look good.

It’s a reflection of, I blame those frigging spelling Nazis back in the day that were giving us a hard time- … that made us crazy. Yes. Thank you very much. 

[00:21:13] Toby Myles: Yeah. 

[00:21:14] Kris Ward: Okay. So much to take in here. I, man, I think we could talk about storytelling all day. 

[00:21:18] Toby Myles: Yeah. 

[00:21:19] Kris Ward: Where can people find more of your brilliance, Toby?

[00:21:23] Toby Myles: Yes. I am on LinkedIn at Toby Myles, T-O-B-Y M-Y-L-E-S. My community is called Her Story Authority. You can find it on my website at tobymyles.com, and it is an amazing community of women leaders and authors- Really trying to establish their authority through their very own stories, all the decades of experience that they’ve lived, and they are excavating their very own stories so that they can stand out online.

[00:21:53] Kris Ward: Yeah, we all do have a story. We just have to, we have to see it and get it out there, and I think your work is very important, and thank you [00:22:00] again. And everyone else, oh my gosh, share this show with a business buddy. Don’t have them banging around by themselves. There’s lots of stuff here that we need to be reminded of every day.

I swear I have to get a tell your story tattoo, ’cause every second day I’m like, “Oh, wait, we can tell more stories.” Gotta, we gotta do that. Okay, thank you everyone. We will see you in the next episode.