The VA Hiring Process That Builds Leaders, Not Task Doers! with Lina Pael

Episode Summary

Lina Pael Podcast Interview

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day, and I am your host, Kris Ward. And today we have a special treat in the house. We have Lina Pael and she is one of the virtual assistants, one of our WIN team members in the Leadership Program. And she’s been with us a year now.

So she was talking to me the other day. She actually was in our intern program, which will tell you more about that, and we thought it would be a really great conversation to have here. Get the behind the scenes, pull back the curtain, and Lina’s pretty articulate. So I’m really excited to hear what your thoughts are on everything.

Now that we’ve reached your one year anniversary, Lina, welcome to the show. 

[00:00:37] Lina Pael: Hello, Kris. Thank you so much for having me here. I’m so happy to be here with you today. 

[00:00:42] Kris Ward: I’m excited too. Okay. I’m not sure where to start with you. I guess let’s start with the beginning. We’ve had other people talk about a hiring process.

We’ve got a 12 step hiring process. We find, hire and onboard virtual assistants and put them in our leadership program for entrepreneurs. If you don’t know that we do that, and Lina, you went through that [00:01:00] 12 point hiring process, so let’s just start at the beginning, but there’s lots more. We’ll skim over the beginning, but I would like to hear, did you notice our process was different right from the beginning?

Like, when did you start to say, oh, this is gonna be a different experience. 

[00:01:14] Lina Pael: Yeah. It’s totally different from the previous job that I have in the last time because in the hiring process here in the leadership program in your academy is totally different because in the first time, I’m totally amazed because I, you only ask me one question and that only takes I think one minute.

Yeah. I said to myself, oh, that’s it. Oh, what a wonderful experience to have. Yeah, 

[00:01:44] Kris Ward: You thought it was wonderful. Usually people are like what happened? Did I just fail it? Because it is, it’s a very simple question, but you’re right. It’s one question I say, Hey, Lina, this is a quick interview to see if you make it to the main interview.

Lina, can you tell me why you think you’d be a good fit for this job? [00:02:00] So you thought that was great then? 

[00:02:03] Lina Pael: Yeah, exactly. Because most interviews out there is. There’s consists of seven to 10 questions. Oh yeah. So you need to prepare a lot of time just to, to prepare for that interview. But here it’s very different just to to say your most experiences that is relevant to the work that you’re you’re looking for a VA. So that’s a very amazing. 

[00:02:28] Kris Ward: Yeah, so we do the pre-interview and then if there’s any substance there and we go oh, she’s got some experience and she’s articulate and she’s all the things that you were, then we move you to the main interview. And for the people who don’t get moved to the main interview, something that I do I think is very important.

Is I say, Hey, if you hear from us in the next 24 hours, you’ll know you made it to the main interview. And that way they’re relieved and released. I don’t like, I think it’s cruel to make people wait, right? Yeah. So I’m like, oh, if you don’t hear from us by tomorrow you’re not moving on. Which then at least you’re not sitting [00:03:00] there two weeks.

I think I maybe, oh, they’re busy. They’ll get back to me. What’s happening? None of that. Okay, so then you moved on. You went to the main interview, we gave you a mini test. ’cause we’ve talked about this in other episodes with other VAs. And then you get hired. So now you’ve been with us a year and most recently, and we’ll get into this a little bit further, you were in our intern program.

We’ll put a pin in that. We’ll come back to that. So the intern program, but tell me in a year of reflection, what it’s like, like what, how is this different than what’s happening out there? 

[00:03:30] Lina Pael: Yeah. This Leadership Program, Kris. Totally different. Like it’s so special because being part of the leadership program really helps me to build my confidence, stability that, le leading to meaningful career growth, not just your after of the compensation that you get paid of what you do.

But one big difference that this leadership program made to me is that it really helps me to build confidence [00:04:00] because, Kris I am an introverted person, so I don’t really enjoy being in the crowd socializing with the people that I’m not close to. But this Leadership Program really helps my confidence to be more more confident in a way that in professional, yeah, that.

That will help me to be to be more effective VA or win team member to my team leader. So yeah, in, during that one year experience, it really helps me to be more confident leaders, not just a task towards that, just during the task that they are assigned to you, but you are taking the lead. Yeah. So that’s that thing here. Yeah. 

[00:04:42] Kris Ward: Okay. You said something, two really important things there. Not a task and a doer. Yeah, but taking the lead, and that’s exactly what we’re looking for. Like when we put people through our process, we don’t want someone that we just dump tasks on. I think it doesn’t help the entrepreneur.

So many people say, oh, I just, I need someone to delegate [00:05:00] to. Delegating is a lateral move. The work still has to come through you, so you have to see it, and you have to hand it off. And that’s another job for the founder or the entrepreneur. And then for you it’s boring ’cause it just becomes admin work and repetitive work and technical work and you put your head down and you keep your mouth shut and you’re just doing work.

Yeah. But even for people who claim to be introverts, and we’ve had so many people in this program that say I was an introvert, and I don’t know, maybe you are an introvert, but I also think that so many of us that have had admin jobs. Whether you’re an introvert or not, sometimes the admin job makes you an introvert because it’s I just need to keep my head down and stay outta trouble.

Like I’ve had jobs where people I worked with complained like we never get recognized. And I thought, recognize if you’re not in trouble, you’re doing good. Keep your mouth shut your head down, do your job right. Whereas here we’re looking for team members, and to me, a team is a philosophy, not a number. So we want you to rise up and have ideas and I know you’re smart.

But that doesn’t do anybody any good if they don’t know. You’re smart, right? And [00:06:00] so that whole teach you different capabilities, all these how to communicate, how to speak more effectively, how to be concise when you speak, how to have confidence to have ideas. That’s a big part of what we do because I think you could speak to this, that.

So many other places, not only do they not do anything like this, but when they do teach you stuff, it’s technical stuff. Go learn how to code a YouTube video. And it’s all okay. Yeah. But that’s still keeping your head down, not getting ideas. It’s just doing more task stuff.

[00:06:29] Lina Pael: Yes, because the, this leadership program here in the academic race really focus on develop, developing my leadership skills and really helps me to grow into confident leaders because a lot in the under industry, in my previous job I’m really afraid to speak up.

I’m really afraid to, to, to share my ideas or opinions because I have this negative toss in mind. Maybe this is not the right thing, but here in the leadership program you really helped me, you, Kris, [00:07:00] you really helped me not to be afraid. Yeah. Just to show yourself, show your ideas, just asking questions.

Just show your opinions to the team and that’s really makes a difference for me. Yeah. 

[00:07:12] Kris Ward: Yeah. Because when you, it’s like getting reps in or doing pushups or something like that, like the more ideas you throw out, and I talk to the entrepreneurs about this all the time, the what we call the win team leaders.

I say praise the behavior, not the outcome. So what that means to me is if you come up with two or three ideas and Oh, you know what, Lina, I love that you take initiative. I love that you’re thinking about this. I love that we’re brainstorming. Whereas if you come up with one idea and I say, oh, great idea, Lina, and then that’s it.

Then the next time you’re still nervous is this a great idea? But the last time was a great idea, and then I gave her two more ideas and she didn’t say they were a great idea. So maybe I just had that one great idea where I’m always telling the WIN team leaders like, listen. Praise the behavior because if you come up with five ideas, maybe only one or two of them is great, but the other three, maybe we [00:08:00] piggyback on that idea and then I have an idea, or it doesn’t matter.

If you come up with 10 ideas and four are great, that’s better than you sitting there holding them all thinking, oh, this has to be a good idea. Before I speak, like before I get my confidence and take that leap forward. ’cause I’m really confident this one idea is good. That’s just not, it’s it’s you withholding your resources and it’s not very collaborative.

It’s not very fun. It’s, it really limits the company really. 

[00:08:26] Lina Pael: Yeah, absolutely. Because, that will holds you to, to grow. Yeah. If you are just being afraid to speak up, if you’re being just afraid or maybe your opinions are not right, but in this program really helps me to not being afraid, just show yourself and show to your team leader that you’re here you’re here to be a leader, not just a, task support or any admin support that you are. Yeah, 

[00:08:52] Kris Ward: a hundred percent task support. That’s great, but there’s so much more there. And then also, yeah. You are doing different things in the [00:09:00] company than your team leader.

So you’re gonna see things from different angles, and that’s the whole goal. I always say, if you wanna buy a new broom, talk to the person who sweeps the floor. And this idea of entrepreneurs thinking everything I need to have control. How do you, sometimes people say to me, how do you deal with people who don’t wanna give up control?

They’ll say, I don’t wanna give up control. And I’m like, I don’t think that’s true. I think there’s always pre and post work to everything you do. And if there’s things you wanna do for your clients and you think I need to be in control of that, great. Then spend more time there and then have your team be doing the pre and the post work.

But if you’re going to do that, you better be collaborating and communicating with your team, like I think you saw as we can move forward with the intern program. You were in our intern program, which it means you joined my scrum meetings with my team for about two weeks, and you see the behind the scenes of how we run our business and all the things that we’re working on.

And I think you could see in there even things that maybe weren’t. Like that I [00:10:00] was doing ma major changes. I was working on a project right now that mostly was me, but every day I updated the team so they could see where, how I was thinking or where the company was going. Even it didn’t impact them directly in this one scenario, which was the exception.

’cause mostly it does impact them, them still understanding. Oh my vision for this impacted their vision for that. Or they still had ideas. Like I was like, oh, that’s such a great idea. Oh my gosh. Okay. I was just telling you I was up to, and now you added to that. It’s just astounding. Into that point, what was that like in the intern program? What were you expecting? What did you get? 

[00:10:36] Lina Pael: During the two weeks inter internship program with you, Kris, and also with Maura, was an amazing learning experience for me. It really gives me a hands-on exposure to your real projects that you’re working on while leading me see how you communicate with your team members and how you lead your teams.

That’s really helpful because I learned not just what to do, but how to approach task strategically and how to do that ineffectively that will achieve the goals in the business in your team leader. So aside from that, I really also appreciate it when your team members say let me take a note for that, Kris

[00:11:19] Kris Ward: okay. 

[00:11:20] Lina Pael: That statement, I believe it acknowledged that we’re human, not just robots or AI there. And because we, sometimes we, we need a moment to pause so that we don’t miss a thing that what you say. Or what my team leaders said to me. Okay, 

[00:11:36] Kris Ward: Hold on. Lemme jump in there. 

So let’s get more specific.

’cause that’s important, what you just said. Yeah. And so many people don’t do this. When someone on my team, Maura, Michael, Criz, Evan, if they say, let me take a note on that, Kris. Kris. What happens 

[00:11:50] Lina Pael: Then, you you stop talking and they they wrote things down in the Yeah. Yeah. So 

[00:11:58] Kris Ward: The key part though, you just said, [00:12:00] yeah.

The key part is I stopped talking. Yes. And this is a big deal. So many people do, they’re just like, oh yeah, okay. And the entrepreneur’s given all these ideas and then the poor VAs making all these notes and it’s okay, it’s, it’s all right. I’m making notes. No, I can talk and write down and listen and do, you can’t.

You cannot pay attention. Exactly. You cannot be writing on your page and then listening to the next idea, and then later they’re gonna say, oh, I thought you got that. I gave you three step things I wanted you to do. So whenever I come up with a new idea or something I want them to add and they say, let me take a note of that, Kris, I.

I stop talking and I stop talking. I don’t then turn to somebody else in the meeting and start talking to ’em about something different going, okay, Lina’s making a note. I’ll go over here and talk to Michael so we can wait till she’s done. No, we all stop talking. So they, it, it takes 30 seconds.

Let them make a note and then we pick up where we left off and that little thing. More than shows them respect, but then they can focus on, I, this isn’t, don’t say to them later, Hey, I told you that in the meeting, blah, blah, blah. I give you all these steps. And it’s yeah, I was writing while you were telling me five steps.

[00:13:00] I got to, I think I got most of ’em. I think I got three. Yeah, that’s a big deal. Let me make a note of that. Kris means Kris. Shut up. Stop talking. 

[00:13:09] Lina Pael: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that’s really amazing because during our risk comes with my team leader, I always just taking notes. But I didn’t say to her that, oh, let me take a note with that.

[00:13:21] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:13:21] Lina Pael: Team leader, because some, sometimes if we don’t do that I really think that we do some mistakes. Yeah. We’re not taking all the things that she said. So that’s very important in this job, in this VA rule. So yeah, that’s very important. 

[00:13:38] Kris Ward: It’s a little thing, but people are so used to multitasking.

They don’t appreciate no. I’ve had people sitting, my house on their phone going, I’m asking ’em a question. They’re like, oh, I can listen to you and do this at the same time. I’m like, no, you can’t. Right? So think about it like this. If you had somebody you cared about having surgery, and let’s say the doctor is operating on that person and that doctor does this surgery every [00:14:00] day, all day, and they’ve been doing it for 10 years, they are an expert at that.

This is what they do. Would you want them on the phone ordering their lunch while they’re performing surgery? 

[00:14:09] Lina Pael: Of course not. 

[00:14:10] Kris Ward: No. So they’re multitasking. Yeah. Oh, don’t worry about this. It’s just ordering lunch. I, it’s not a big deal. I can it’s a simple thing. I order lunch and I’ve been doing this surgery for 10 years, all day, every day.

But you’d be like, why don’t you just stop what you’re doing for a second if you need to order lunch? So that’s the thing is exactly that whole condition we have of multitasking. No, it’s problematic. You cannot do two. I say multitasking is doing two things at the same time. Poorly.

That’s what I say. Yeah, 

[00:14:37] Lina Pael: exactly. I totally agree with that, Kris. Yeah. 

[00:14:39] Kris Ward: Okay. So what else did you notice that in this last year, that you thought, wow, this would be hard to give up and go back to the old way. This is just easier. 

[00:14:48] Lina Pael: Yeah. Aside from what I’ve said I think another big difference that the Academy made me is learning how to use and build Super toolkits because [00:15:00] everyone in the online industry right now is using standard operating procedures or Yeah. Is obvious. Yeah. But having super toolkits here in the leadership program means I’m not just doing tasks from my memory. 

[00:15:15] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:15:16] Lina Pael: But everything is documented and it was organized, so it makes my work. More consistent and it makes me more confident that I’m not scared doing my task because I know I always know the process.

It’s there, it’s documented. So what else I. Do I need scared about? So it really allows, yeah. 

[00:15:38] Kris Ward: Oh, sorry. Go ahead. My apologies. 

[00:15:40] Lina Pael: Yeah, it really allows me to work more independently because not all the time my team leader is there. Most of the time maybe she has a onsite meeting, so I am just here for her.

So the super toolkit really helps me to be more independent, working my tasks [00:16:00] independently, not just waiting for my team leaders to, to finish my task. Yeah. So that’s really helped me to grow as a VA or as a WIN team member. 

[00:16:10] Kris Ward: Yeah, that’s a really good point because I just commented on a link LinkedIn post today.

Somebody’s talking about delegating and I said, 

[00:16:15] Lina Pael: yeah. 

[00:16:16] Kris Ward: Delegating is a lateral move at best. The work still has to come through you. And you said a keyword there. It makes me independent. And the other thing that you, what we’re talking about is SOPs. People think they’ve got, oh, don’t worry. I got SOPs, I got standard operating procedures.

And what they usually have is big long documents with training mixed up in it. And it’s like a manual covering everything. But what I’ve seen, and you can back me up in this, Lina, is then the VA has to come in. Read it all, interpret it, make their own steps because there’s way more information.

Like I had one client when she was new with us, she’s oh Kris, I’ve got everything set up for a social media person. I’ve got SOPs. I’m like, let me look at them. And there was like 40 pages of how to deal with Facebook and I’m like, oh my gosh. It would take a week to go through [00:17:00] that and pull out the pertinent information and what’s relevant and it’s just not usable.

It’s not a user manual where our signature super toolkits are very easy, dynamic breathing documents that are constantly evolving, take seconds to make, and then they’re just clear, right? And so you can work, like you said, independently, but also everything you’re doing is kept current and you’re not having to make your own systems within a system.

[00:17:25] Lina Pael: Yeah, I totally agree with that, Kris, because SOPs it’s very long process, but here in our academy is very specific, so it really saves you time. It’s makes you more productive and efficient with your task that you are assigned to that will helps you to be more productive and will helps your team leader. Saves times also. 

[00:17:50] Kris Ward: Yeah, a hundred percent. And then because the super toolkits, like you’ve seen in our, in the intern program, when we’re having scrum meetings. 

[00:17:57] Lina Pael: Yeah, 

[00:17:58] Kris Ward: is that I might say, oh, something [00:18:00] happened yesterday. We built out we made a change or we did something. And it’s oh, that, okay, we better add that to the super toolkit.

We’re doing this now, and the moment we add it to the super toolkit, it means it’s gonna be immediately implemented because everyone’s using the super toolkit. So it’s oh, you know what? When we onboard new clients, maybe we’re gonna do this extra step now or send them our book, and it’s that goes in the super toolkit.

Great. So from this, you can change on a dime from this moment on. Everybody follows the super toolkit. So it happens immediately. Like we can make changes a hundred percent effective immediately. Where other times it’s yeah, oh, did you know we stopped doing that? Now we’re doing it. Did you tell Sarah?

No. Okay. Remember, don’t forget, don’t forget like we’re doing this now.

Yeah, 

[00:18:44] Lina Pael: Because, super toolkits is as what you said it really helps us to be on the same page.

Working on because I experienced Kris in my, in this in my win team leader is during [00:19:00] that she is absent because she has, she she got sick or my COVID team member is is on leave. Then I have to do their task also. But this Super Toolkits really helped me, not just not to, always asking a question to them because the process are all there.

[00:19:20] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:19:20] Lina Pael: It’s very specific. So there’s no other things that you are afraid to do that task that you, that it’s the task that you are not supposedly to do. Yeah. 

[00:19:32] Kris Ward: Yeah. Keep it simple. I know for us, when Maura started with us, I mean it was like four or five years ago now, but. 

[00:19:38] Lina Pael: Yeah, 

[00:19:38] Kris Ward: she was replacing someone on our team that was going back to school, and Maura was so amazed that she said like within a week she was up to 80% capacity and she thought oh, usually that first few weeks are so stressful.

You have to figure out the job and pull things together and almost interpret the craziness of the entrepreneur and what’s going on and figure it out. When they say this, they mean that. And she just thought, oh, I get to really do [00:20:00] the work right away. It’s so exciting because everything was laid out for her so clearly.

And, we also had another situation where we had a client of mine, we, we’d set her up as super toolkits and brought on an additional VA. She needed a second VA, a second win team member, and she ended up in the hospital right away. She had, or gallbladder got infected or had to be operated on or something like that.

Yeah. And there was Sheila. She said, oh my gosh, like I, Sheila was just there by herself, but doing all everything totally effectively. ’cause she had these super toolkits and she said she couldn’t believe that she could be so useful and get so much done. Being totally unsupervised, knew at a job because the super toolkits were so clean and simple and directive.

[00:20:43] Lina Pael: Yeah, I totally agree with that, Kris. 

[00:20:45] Kris Ward: Yeah, it’s fun. Okay. Alright, so we talked a little bit and so we talked some of the big things that we do that are different. So our hiring processor is different. Then we’ve got the leadership program, which is there’s nothing like that out there. I think most…, we’re not an [00:21:00] agency, ’cause the agency, they make you sign non-disclosure agreements and then they take some of your pay, you get paid directly by our clients.

We, we don’t take any of that. When our clients move on, they leave with you. They don’t lose their VA like you do in an agency. So there’s all these things there, but aside from the leadership program we’re building up your communication skills, your confidence, we’re giving you all kinds of trainings teaching AI stuff.

We’re just all kinds of factors about that. Then we also have, scrums and scrums are very different than that weekly meeting once a week where they dump tasks on you. And in the intern, you joined our scrums every day, and I think that’s probably new to you because a lot of other formulas are really about communication through email or if you’re lucky you meet them once a week, that kind of deal.

[00:21:44] Lina Pael: Yeah, about the Scrum Kris. I really love this because because of the scrum, it really improves our communication, my communication skills. And during the scrums it, I see that it encourage transparency and ensures [00:22:00] everyone in the team is aware of each other’s progress of that specific task.

And daily updates also really help keep the team aligned with the same goals of my team leader to achieve the goals of the business. So describe is really amazing and it really helps you to be collaborative with your team leader and with your Cowin team member that will help you to be more efficient and productive with your work.

Yeah. 

[00:22:28] Kris Ward: Yeah. And it keeps everybody in the loop because especially entrepreneurs. Yeah. We’re so known for, oh my gosh, I’m taking this course. My whole opinion on this thing has changed. Oh my gosh. I read this book. I saw this great documentary. And if you’re, some people don’t even meet once a week, but meeting once a week is old school corporate, it’s just to dump tasks on somebody and then next week you don’t even have all those things done. They give you more tasks. So that doesn’t work. And it really is falling to the whole teacher students situation. I’m the boss, I’m dumping stuff on you. We meet once a week and that’s that.

And that’s not a great formula. But then there’s others who don’t [00:23:00] even do that. You’re just communicating through email and then how are it just. It just doesn’t give you the opportunity to collaborate or to be kept in the loop. And like you saw as we were working on expanding some things in a leadership program, when I was showing up in Scrum, I’m sharing ideas I have, so they’re kept in the loop of how my CH thinking is changing.

You know what, okay, this is what I did yesterday. I think it’s really working. So I’m thinking we’re gonna go more this direction. And so then everybody’s on the same page and they’re all like, wait, what happened two weeks ago? We weren’t doing that. So I think it just. It’s so much more inclusive and then it allows you to be keeping up with our ideas of where we’re going instead of okay, how am I supposed to know?

We changed gears, right? 

[00:23:41] Lina Pael: Yeah, I totally agree because in the scrums Kris we also talk about the priority task. If this task is high, low, or right, we can just leave that for tomorrow. So during the scrums, it really helps me to do, to prioritize the tasks that are the most [00:24:00] important. Yeah. So you can just, do the tasks that are assigned to you, but in the high priority man manner. So that really helps your team leader to, to not be to avoid stress because you’re doing the high priority task instead of the low priority task. 

[00:24:17] Kris Ward: Yeah, that’s a really good point, especially where your industry, when you work with your team leader, it’s very sensitive to dates and stuff.

’cause you’re like Yeah, in insurance and it’s all about policies and dates and in that industry, priorities can change quickly because, oh, that date is coming up and we haven’t found it. They want something different in their policy, or we have to find a different vendor. So it’s a unique situation where the priorities could change really quick, depending on the availability or all the clutter, muck, all the whatever in the insurance world that I don’t understand. Oh my gosh, I couldn’t do that. 

[00:24:49] Lina Pael: Exactly. I totally agree with that, Kris. Because every day our priorities change. Yeah. So the daily scrums really help us to be more, to be more productive and [00:25:00] efficient when it comes to dealing with the priorities.

And that also helps us to avoid errors or avoid due dates on our policies that are coming for the renewals. Yeah, so that’s the thing that the scrums really have a great impact to us. Yeah, so that’s very amazing. 

[00:25:21] Kris Ward: Yeah. And I know you said a couple things too that I just wanna touch on as we wrap up here.

You talked about how it changes your VA shifts pers… perspective from just completing tasks to understanding the purpose. That’s big. Then you talk about teachers problem spotting before issues arise. That’s another big one. And then build confidence in decision making without constant supervision. So yes, not only can you make decisions, but you’re getting stronger and more.

Able to make more impactful decisions and then promote proactive improvements rather than waiting for instruction. So that’s the whole thing. People say to me sometimes, oh, I wanna have a VA that takes it and runs with it. And I’m like, takes what? [00:26:00] Runs where? Like you’re not working with them, you’re giving them tasks once a week and you want them to read your mind.

So this is, this eliminates all that. But it does, what it does is make you proactive. It makes you independent, it makes you a strategic thinker and it just, gives you a much more powerful position within the company, I would think. 

[00:26:20] Lina Pael: Yeah, I totally agree with that, Kris, because by doing that you are proving your value in the team, that you’re not just a way, you’re just leaders that your team leaders are want.

So that’s really a great one. 

[00:26:37] Kris Ward: And I would guess too, it makes your job more interesting for you. 

[00:26:40] Lina Pael: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:26:41] Kris Ward: Excellent. Okay, Lina, thank you so much for your time and your energy. Please people share this vi, share this show with your business body. ’cause there’s lots of content here. Lina really gave you the inside scoop and this is why.

Listen, if you’ve had a VA and it hasn’t worked out before, or they worked out and it was really good for a couple years and then all of a [00:27:00] sudden they went missing, I am here to tell you. It was not working out as well as you thought it was. They left ’cause they were burnt out. So there is an easier way, I promise you that to share this with a business buddy and we will see you in the next episode.