Organic Social Isn’t Dead! With Dorien Morin-van Dam

Episode Summary

2nd Podcast Interview Dorien Morin-van Dam

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Win the Hour, Win the Day, and I am your host, Kris Ward. And today in the house we have Dorien Morin-van Dam. And oh my gosh, we’re excited to have her back. We’ve had her here before. She always over-delivers, and there’s all kinds of interesting things to learn from her.

Now today, Dorien, we’re gonna talk about organic social isn’t dead. What do we mean by that? Let’s get to it. 

[00:00:26] Dorien Morin-van Dam: All right. Thanks for having me on again, Kris. I have been talking about organic isn’t dead since 2018. Okay. People keep saying and pronouncing social, organic social is dead, and it’s not.

I know that there are periods of time ever since social came to be that paid was really important, and then SEO was really important, and then, all these different things are really important. But, organic content means content that doesn’t have money behind it that is pushed out onto social.

[00:00:57] Kris Ward: Okay.

[00:00:57] Dorien Morin-van Dam: So that could be anything from a [00:01:00] TikTok video to a Facebook post to a community post. It could be anything like a blog article that has no money behind it. So that content is still relevant. Why? Especially in this day and age now that we’re in the age of AI, is because AI search allows you to be found if you have organic social.

So there’s another reason to not pronounce this dead right now, is that AI search will pick you up, whether you’re active on Reddit, whether you’re active on LinkedIn, whether you’re active on Instagram, TikTok. If you have the right relevancy- The AI search engines will pick it up, and you will be mentioned in an LLM when people has a search query.

So that’s… It’s even more important now. Even though people declared it dead a long time ago- Yeah … it’s still not dead. 

[00:01:50] Kris Ward: Okay, if it’s not dead, are we though sometimes battling the whole… I don’t even know where to start with this. We got people using and overusing and abusing AI and [00:02:00] writing posts or using AI to do grammar check on posts.

I don’t know where it begins and ends, right? So then you’re saying, okay, AI searches organic stuff, Google still pulls these things up, but w- but even where are we with the organic? I don’t know if I’m asking the right questions, but it’s almost how do we make our organic stuff still good when I feel like there’s so much stuff pressing down on us upon about the situation of is this well-written, is it good compared to AI, am I raw, am I real, does it have a story?

How do we even know how to find or create organic content anymore? I feel like even the definition of that is now lost. 

[00:02:37] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Oh, that’s a good question. Oh. It starts with you. Okay. It starts with the content knowledge in your head. Okay. In order to create content in an AI, it needs to have a piece of content knowledge.

Okay. You need to give it a prompt, right? And it needs to have knowledge to go with that. So for example, if you say, “What are the best baby diapers?” Yeah … it’s going to say Probably Pampers or [00:03:00] Huggies- Okay … whatever, or give you two or three. But if you say, “What are the best baby diapers for a preemie baby that has a terrible rash and for a mom who’s on a budget?”

It’s going to give a very specific answer. Okay. So that’s the kind of content that you should be- Oh … creating. Okay. It’s your kn- your experience in your business, your knowledge. I’m an organic specialist, right? I’m a content strategist, organic specialist, so when I speak about content, I speak about organic content on how to create things.

So that’s my knowledge base and that’s what I blog about, I make videos about, I, create content around what I know. So you’re the expert, and that is where it starts. And the reason you need to put that out is because you have your unique perspective, right? Okay. There’s probably, I don’t know how many thousands of VAs are out there, for example.

Yeah. But a VA who lives in a specific area or serves a specific industry [00:04:00] or serves a specific, or works with a specific brand has a very unique point of view. And so their point of view becomes important when somebody wants to know more about what they do or where they live or wants to simi- you know, has a question about that.

So it’s your expertise your knowledge base, your point of view your positioning. All of that together becomes your organic content. And when you asked about AI, every piece of content you produce initially the b- it needs to have a source of truth. So for example, if you write a LinkedIn post about something, it’s fine if AI creates it for you if you feed it the knowledge base of a transcript or a video.

Because then you say, “This is what I want the LinkedIn post to be about. This is my source of truth. This is my voice. This is the discussion we had. These are my real words. Now create a LinkedIn post in my voice that sounds like [00:05:00] it’s written about this project,” right? About this transcript.

Then it’s okay to use, I think. Yeah to make things faster. But it has to be… The organic social has to come from a human, I think, in order to stand out. Now- I re- at the beginning of 2026, I heard this data piece, and I couldn’t wrap my head around it. It said in 2026, the amount of content that will be created will be 10X of all the content previously created on the internet, all those previous, I don’t know, 30, 40 years- Okay in one year. 

[00:05:35] Kris Ward: Okay. Oh. 

[00:05:36] Dorien Morin-van Dam: That’s how much content we can create in one year with AI. 

[00:05:39] Kris Ward: Okay.

[00:05:39] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Just because we can doesn’t mean we should. 

[00:05:42] Kris Ward: So- Or that it’s not gonna just be all the sa- 

I know I’ve talked about this here on the show before is, you know we find, hire, and onboard V- VAs in our, put them in our Leadership Program for entrepreneurs.

And in the beginning process, we will see now the cover letters, the… I always hire personality over skill set. I’m looking for potential. [00:06:00] We put them in our Leadership- … Program. It’s a whole thing. And now I’m starting to see cover letters that are exactly the same. It’s I can’t see who you are if your cov- cover letter is the same as six other people.

And I even caught a couple of them trying to read a script because they think it sounds more polished, so they’re reading a AI script. And I say, “Oh, my gosh. Is that from AI?” He said, “Yes. I wanted to sound professional.” I wanna hear how you think on your feet. I wanna hear what makes you laugh. I wanna get to know you, so you’re hiding behind this vanilla content is useless 

[00:06:30] Dorien Morin-van Dam: And this is, what you just said, you want to know, that’s what our customer wants to know.

Yeah. They don’t wanna see an AI, they don’t wanna read something AI- Yeah … generated. They wanna have something come from you. And yes, AI has a place in this. AI has a way of amplifying your voice and amplifying the content you do create originally. But it has to come from you. So whether you’re, if you’re a business owner, whether you’re a speaker or you are, you do sales, get the [00:07:00] transcripts from your conversations.

Record yourself on audio when you have thoughts. We used to say, “Write it down,” have a diary, but now we’re using voice recordings because then we can get a transcript really fast. But use your own thought because that’s what a customer wants. A customer doesn’t wanna know, like everybody else an AI-generated response.

They wanna know exactly what, and you are the differentiator. You are- Yeah … the person who knows, especially if you’re talking to, say, you’re a local business, right? For example- Yeah … this is the example I can use. I used to live in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and one of my clients there was, is a home security company, and they do, also do commercial security.

But every year on June 1st, it starts the Atlantic hurricane season. Oh. And home, and they target homeowners, right? They don’t install security systems in rentals. So we used to create the Homeowner’s Guide for Hurricane Preparedness. We did a 2018 edition, 2019, 2020, 2021, all of that. But it was [00:08:00] very targeted because nobody else outside of the Myrtle Beach area, or at least not in that area where we were living, would have all of those same details.

It was really targeted. So this was content that was specific for the audience we were targeting, specific for what’s happening locally. And say you’re a an inn, and there’s road work going on. Y- AI wouldn’t know that. AI would be like, “Oh, we can’t wait to see you this weekend.” That’s a post AI would produce.

You would produce, “Hey, we can’t wait to see you this weekend. Heads up, there’s road work going on. You need to- Yeah … take Route 10 and 12 instead of Route 220 to make sure you get here on time.” And you draw a little map, and people will appreciate you. That’s the difference between AI content and human-created content.

You add those nuances that AI doesn’t have. 

[00:08:51] Kris Ward: ‘Cause if we’re all going to the same well, we’re all gonna have the same drink. So unless we bring… And it kinda reminds me, I don’t care where you live in the world, you see the royals give a speech or [00:09:00] maybe a politician in your government, and they stand there and they read in a very flat, the, “I believe that…”

If you believed, you wouldn’t need to read that. It w- there’s no passion, there’s no distinction. One person reading the speech to the other, it’s very flat. It has no impact. You don’t h- really hear it, and that’s because it’s been watered down in its presentation, and that’s the same thing.

And again, I think we all get caught up because you look at something and you go, “But it’s better written than I would’ve written it.” But where is the personality? And we just- … get lost in the speed of it, but if it’s not your story, your personality, or your words, the way you talk I definitely can pick your voice out of the scr- I’m scrolling by and I hear you in a video on LinkedIn, I know that’s you right away, right?

And that’s a whole thing. I guess our voices are being muted, so the whole idea of- Yes … can we use this tool to do more? Yes. We used to, back in the 1800s, used to have somebody transcribing notes, and now we’ve moved to things that could be recorded and [00:10:00] then transcribed, and now we can even connect the transcription to something else.

We don’t even have to put the video in to get the transcription. So really, it’s just an escalation of efficiency, but we still have to be the source. 

[00:10:11] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Right, and that’s why social isn’t dead, because- … more than anything, if you wanna stand out from everybody else- Yeah … you need to start using your human voice again.

And you need- Yeah … to at least have your human voice be the s- the voice of truth, the source of truth for your company. Figure out what that voice is or who that voice is. And yes, you can use Call Transcript or whatever to figure out the voice. Yeah. And then really portray that. But people wanna see real people.

People wanna- Yeah … t- let’s talk about social media content comments. Yeah. Now all these AI comments are showing up on LinkedIn. They’re all the same. You can see the format is the same. Yeah. There’s tools out there that sell it. It doesn’t do anything. A- any time I see somebody [00:11:00] that has a blatant AI tell- I’m not gonna call them out anymore, but I don’t comment on their content anymore or their comment anymore.

I can see it now, and even in the last few weeks, more and more I have seen, oh, that person’s using AI too, because it just all sounds the same. 

[00:11:17] Kris Ward: It does. And I’m… And also too, you’re not memorable, and we know that. Wait, listen, we know that, but until you really see it… somebody was putting up a post last week, and she said, I don’t know if it’s silly to announce my own birthday,” and she had this whole post about her birthday.

And I wrote in the comments, “I think it’s more of a problem if you announce your own death.” And she thought that was slap-your-knee funny, right? I, one sentence, and now she DM’d me, and and no way could… I didn’t even think of that till the moment when I read her post, the way she wrote it, and I was like, “Okay, here’s my reply.”

But AI couldn’t have done that. No. So now she really remembered me, and sometimes, Or Marcus Sheridan, who we all know a pretty prolific marketer, and he was talking again about how his company started when [00:12:00] he was a pool guy and all this other stuff. And I said, you’re talking a lot about these pool guy days.

I wanna see a picture of you in your pool guy shorts. Where’s that? Let’s prove it,” right? Thought that was hilarious, right? And I was just being saucy. And AI, he’s not gonna remember me with the, “That was a wonderful thing about the narration and the evolution of SEO.” It’s just- No … it’s not gonna do that.

[00:12:20] Dorien Morin-van Dam: It’s just not. It’s just not. No, absolutely not. I was this year I attended two graduations, and we didn’t… Both of the graduation I attended didn’t have big speakers, but it had some student speakers and some faculty speakers, and I think that every single post was polished by AI. 

Oh, okay. 

Okay.

They were great, but they were just actually, there was one that was not that I can tell, because he had everybody chuckling and he- yeah … read it from the heart. But everybody else, even there was one that was a young mom up there speaking, and it did touch me, but I’m like, “She polished it [00:13:00] with AI.”

It was too many, the AI loves the things of three, yeah. And this and that. There were like, eh, almost every other sentence was like that, and I was like, I could see the rhythm as she was reading it. And I was like I would’ve really liked to know her words better.”

But that’s what we’re, that’s what we’re getting to. So- If you wanna stand out and if you wanna be found, if you wanna be visible, be online as you. Get out there social, i- organic social isn’t dead. Create videos. Find a way to get your knowledge out into the world, not just your knowledge, your viewpoint, your, your whatever, quirkiness, and go with that because as more and more AI slop is entering the space- Yeah

Organic social, the real stuff, is going to rise to the top. 

[00:13:49] Kris Ward: I think as you talk it’s kinda reminding me of if you find that little hole in the wall Italian little bistro, and then you get that sloppy little pizza and it’s so good, and you just, [00:14:00] man, you drive an hour to get it. Or then you can say we can get a frozen pizza from the grocery store or pizza that’s mass-produced.”

It’s they’re both pizzas, right? But one is very memorable, very taste- y- you really remember the taste. The other’s I guess it’s kinda pizza, but it tastes the same as all the other pizzas. 

Not only that. That’s a great example. Are you gonna tell your friends about the frozen pizza?

Or- … that’s just satisfaction, I got my data, that’s it, I got my food, whereas the atmosphere and the beautiful Italian place, you’re gonna tell 10 friends- Yeah … because it’s so unique. 

[00:14:31] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Yeah. That’s 

exactly the point, right? So because the AI posts, the AI content the social content that’s not organic, that’s written by AI or that’s has paid money behind it, a lot of that is either salesy or has, a specific point.

[00:14:47] Kris Ward: So I think to your point, it’s not even that organic isn’t dead. I think it’s really that organic is special if we make it special, if we use it correctly. [00:15:00] If we’re organic about our organic, then we got something.

[00:15:03] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Yes. Yes. That’s it. 

[00:15:06] Kris Ward: Yeah. Okay. All right. So aside from AI and overusing it, when it comes to doing organic content, what are, th- that’s the most obvious ones, and we know it’s not dead. What are some other things that you see us dropping the ball on?

[00:15:21] Dorien Morin-van Dam: I 

think that a lot more people could use real content creators. Okay. Working with brand ambassadors or influencers, content creators to create content for you, in a way you can argue an influencer is a paid it’s paid. But if you post it onto your socials and it’s not boosted or has a campaign money behind it, I would still call it organic.

It’s created by a creator. Now, an ambassador program for a smaller company is a great way to go about is if you’re selling actual products or a service and you are local, an ambassador program can really help you, and they can help you create content that’s genuine, [00:16:00] unique, different, and you can post it on your channels as well as they can post it on their channels.

So those, I think user-generated content is a big piece of organic social that a lot of people forget about. ‘Cause we are all constantly taking pictures and video of things, and so asking for the images, asking for the videos, or actually setting up a program to, to get your hands on content about your company or about your products is a huge wasted opportunity I think.

[00:16:31] Kris Ward: And I think what you’re talking about there, whether you think you’re too small for that kind of relationship or not, I think what you’re really leaning into is the relationship that organic can also be really amplified by any relationship that you have with someone. Yep. Whether it’s, like this podcast, you’re gonna post it on your LinkedIn, I’m posting on mine, and so then there’s still leveraging relationships where it is organic, but, organic, but it’s about the relationship.

[00:16:54] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Yep. 

[00:16:55] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Oh my gosh. Okay. All right. So you’re not [00:17:00] running around the sky is falling because you do marketing. You under- I guess in- I know it’s kinda scary, but in some way, do you not think, aha, like everything else, this too shall pass, and there, the pendulum’s gonna swing the other way?

[00:17:13] Dorien Morin-van Dam: What do you mean? For AI or-

[00:17:14] Kris Ward: As far as everyone’s going “Okay, we, we don’t need somebody to help us with our marketing ’cause I can just ask AI to give me the same marketing that I gave the other 

100 people.” Oh, that happened last year. That happened- Yeah …

[00:17:23] Dorien Morin-van Dam: that, I saw, I personally saw that swing at the beginning of 2025 all the way to the beginning of the quarter four of 2025.

Okay. So the first three quarters of 2025 were pretty dead for me. Okay. And I don’t have a problem saying that. I got no new leads. Nothing was happening. Couple of clients decided to go their own way, and everybody I knew dove into AI headfirst. And then- But do you not- And then the numbers came out Then they came back.

And then the numbers came out. Yeah. Q3 numbers came out, and I think they realized Holy shit. This is not good. And then [00:18:00] I got inquiries, and then I got hired by… A- actually, one person rehired me. Got hired by a couple new clients, because I think the data was showing that AI couldn’t do as good of a job as I could.

[00:18:11] Kris Ward: Well, that was the… My accountant always says, “Garbage in, garbage out.” You also don’t know the questions to ask. So when we would be doing graphics, even before Canva and stuff like that, someone on my team, his background is graphic design. That’s what he started with us, but he doesn’t do that anymore.

But I would look at stuff and I’d be like, “Ah, I think that looks too busy or cheap.” And he’d say, “Oh, that’s ’cause you don’t have enough white space. Get the…” And he would tell the person, “We want this, we want that.” So I’m just like, “Ah, I don’t know. I l- I don’t like it.” I- but I- that’s just my personal taste.

So the point is, I didn’t know why it didn’t work. And so the AI can give you a fantastic rollout, but y- you don’t have the education to go, “That is high-level stuff. We need to go deeper,” or, “That won’t work,” or, “That’s been tried before,” or, “That’s just too vanilla,” or, or, “Don’t give me…” My other thing back in the day was you’d be- have some big marketer saying, “Do this with [00:19:00] your book,” right?

And you’re like I don’t think that’s a good fit for me, but then, he sold m- millions of books. I guess I’ll try it.” And it’s no, he’s at a different point in his journey, so that marketing plan is not gonna work for me when my book is three weeks old and I don’t have the leverage or audience that he has.

[00:19:14] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Right, yeah. You don’t know his budgets, his resources- No … or any of that stuff. Yeah, that, I think that’s a huge mistake that people make with marketing, is that they base what they wanna do on somebody else’s strategy that’s- Yeah … irrelevant. But I do wanna touch on organic social includes things like blogs as well.

And blog content has changed because of Google and SEO and what’s happening with AI and LLM. So blogging is not dead, just like organic content is not dead, but you have to do something different than you did before. Okay. If you’re still blogging like it’s 2022, your blogs aren’t going to work.

Okay. You have to put a date on it, for example, right? Okay. Because it, AI can read if it’s relevant or not. Oh, okay. You have to get [00:20:00] research and data is that, that’s what they love. Yeah. So if you have data in there or link to research piece, that does really well. Start off with the five or seven or 10 key takeaways at the top of your blog, so that way AI can read it really fast.

Okay, these are the takeaways. This is what I want. At the bottom of the blog maybe add frequently asked questions around the same topic that you can add. Add a video or insert a blog, a podcast episode or- A bunch of images with good alt text. So it’s all of the things together, but if you’re still blogging like you did, like I said, in 2022, those blogs most likely aren’t gonna rank anymore because the game has changed.

You have to now write- … for humans, but you have to also write for AI. So I just- That is a really good point … wanted to throw that out there is again we’re not declaring it dead, but things are changing. 

[00:20:57] Kris Ward: Not dead, but we have to do it differently. We have to get to the [00:21:00] same location, but we might have to take a different route.

[00:21:02] Dorien Morin-van Dam: Yep. 

[00:21:03] Kris Ward: Oh my gosh. Okay. Doreen, you’re so fantastic. I could talk to you all day. All right, where can people find more of your brilliance? 

[00:21:09] Dorien Morin-van Dam: I’m most active on LinkedIn. Okay. I would love for you guys to connect with me, Dorien Morin-van Dam on LinkedIn, orange glasses. 

[00:21:15] Kris Ward: And speaking of organic, she does fantastic lives. You can’t scroll by them. You always gotta stop, so oh my gosh. Share this with a business buddy. Lots of valuable content here. Lots of huge takeaways. It’s awesome. Once again, Doreen, there’s nothing more someone can give you more generous than your time, so thank you for giving us yours. I really appreciate it.

And everyone else, we will see it in the next episode.