LinkedIn Social Selling: Master Sales Framing That Converts! with Darren Gibb

Episode Summary

You can find Darren Gibb at:
Website: https://www.darrengibb.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrengibb/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrgibbenglish/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@darrengibb67

#KrisWard
#LinkedInSocialSelling
#SalesFraming

Darren Gibb Podcast Interview

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day and I am your host, Kris Ward. And today back in the house, we like strong armed him in the last. You have to listen to the last episode and we strong armed him to come back. Darren Gibb, Social Selling Strategist is in the house. Welcome back to the show, Darren. 

[00:00:19] Darren Gibb: Thank you so much, Kris. That was a hell of a last show. Do check it out. I, they say spill the tea. I spilled the bloody beer, tea, coffee, Coca Cola, water, you name it. So that was a fun show. So I can’t wait for this one, my friend. Good to be back. 

[00:00:34] Kris Ward: Okay. So here’s the thing. Listen, and I, you are in a club all your own. I had never on air while we’re doing it, so you’ve got to come back. So what I found was so refreshing and enlightening is your whole view on DM strategy and LinkedIn. And so you definitely want to check out that episode. We’ll put the link in the show notes.

[00:00:53] Kris Ward: Since I’ve been following you and even learning more from you, I’m really getting a big grasp at [00:01:00] the whole funnel and how you communicate differently throughout this engagement process, whether it be LinkedIn, and then we eventually do the DM magic. And that I shouldn’t even call it magic because you’re so purposeful in your strategy.

[00:01:13] Kris Ward: It’s very doable. It’s not magic. And then taking it over to sales. So today we’re going to tap into sales. So I have some things that I have really observed already from being a follower of you and a fan and all this other stuff. Where do you want to start? Where do you think people miss the, just miss the boat? Just, drop the ball when it comes to sales. 

[00:01:37] Darren Gibb: Great question. So I think we’ll start, I think, let’s talk around frames. Okay. Oren Klaff wrote a lot about frames and picture anything, and it’s really a book that for years I’ve studied, I’ve learned, and I’ve developed a lot of my DM strategies. I’m connected with him on LinkedIn.

[00:01:53] Darren Gibb: Any questions, Darren? I’m very lucky. But, Yeah, I think, 

[00:01:57] Kris Ward: what’s the name of the book? 

[00:01:58] Darren Gibb: Oren kcl pitch. [00:02:00] Anything about Oren kcl? 

[00:02:01] Kris Ward: Oh. Pitch anything. Pitch anything. I, yes. 

[00:02:03] Darren Gibb: Very good book. 

[00:02:03] Kris Ward: I read that book, but I’m not as smart as you. I didn’t get all that. You got . . 

[00:02:08] Darren Gibb: It’s taking that, sales by, so let’s just kinda cut it back.

[00:02:11] Darren Gibb: I didn’t find sales. Sales found me age 19 in the middle of New Zealand with my girlfriend at the time, living on our last hundred bucks in a youth hostel, and I saw a flyer salesman, salesperson wanted. I’ve done sales my life, but you know what? I’m desperate. I’m, I can’t see how else I’m going to make any money here because I’m literally down to my last hundred bucks.

[00:02:37] Darren Gibb: So turned up and was given a quick here’s the product. Go and sell it. It’s a sinker swim. So it was cold. So I was knocking on the streets of Wellington in New Zealand for eight hours a day, but quickly learnt the ropes and suddenly fell in love with sales. Now, I would take twice as long as anybody else, Kris.

[00:02:56] Darren Gibb: Why? Because I was building a relationship. I didn’t understand at the [00:03:00] time I was building a relationship. I was being relatable. I was listening to them. I was overcoming objections, things I wouldn’t be able to label, but very fortunately, I naturally was able to do. So being cold, a lot of the, I was selling news, save the children, which was just such an amazing charity to sell.

[00:03:19] Darren Gibb: It was monthly donations to them, but I’ve sold New Zealand telecom, handsets, contracts, you name it. A lot of people would get high returns on them because they would strong arm, to use your word, they’d strong arm people into buying so they’d sign up, moment they were off the doorstep they’d cancel it. I didn’t have any returns, I was the highest roller and had the lowest returns in the company.

[00:03:41] Darren Gibb: So I took that time to So I’d been in sales from there, I went through university, I worked in sales in the evenings to fund myself through that, I graduated university, I knew I wanted to be a teacher, but I wanted to do a bit more sales, so I spent 18 months in the coal face again, cold calling, [00:04:00] selling to the trades. tools and things to the trades. I can’t even put a bloody shelf up on the wall because I’m useless, but I could sell. So that’s where this love and passion for selling came from. So it’s only in later years. I’ve been able to adapt all that, read so many books about sales, have so many opportunities to learn and practice.

[00:04:20] Darren Gibb: And that’s what brings us. I know you’ve got a question, but what brings us to this idea of the sale? And the number one thing people get wrong is they forget that they’re the prize. Okay. And I’m going to go ahead and explore that. But yes, I think you wanted to, I could see you wanted to ask. Okay.

[00:04:37] Kris Ward: You said so many things that are wise there. First of all, I’ll be here to tell you when I, they would send me out knocking on doors and what they would get when they open the door is somebody like trying to choke back tears because I would think that would, I, prison would be probably as enjoyable as knocking on cold doors trying to sell.

[00:04:51] Kris Ward: Like I’d be thinking, all right, three cot. Three hots and a cot. I don’t know, right? So I think that is a heart wrenching story that you took with [00:05:00] good with your chin up. All right. I think this is really enlightening to me because What I have just been such a fan of your work and what I see that you do incredibly different is that whole language of sales and whole language of marketing, there is a tonality to that.

[00:05:19] Kris Ward: There is an energy. And even something as simple as we talked about in the last show with your DM, which I was very narrow visioned on that. I was really looking at that as a LinkedIn thing. I wasn’t really understanding at the time, the profoundness of you really selling us and selling yourself through a DM messaging.

[00:05:35] Kris Ward: And something like I would say, Hey, and I thought I was doing it very well that I was all that in a bag of chips. So when somebody would connect with me or reach out to me, I would be like, Hey, what inspired you to take action and connect with me? Like I’m a high energy person. You did something. I want to praise you for the energy you took.

[00:05:52] Kris Ward: You’re an action taker. I’m giving them accolades. Hello. I’ve got this down pat. And you’re like, no, let’s [00:06:00] really soften this. And Hey, what made just, and it was even a longer sentence. Like what made just send over a connection? Hey, I’m so glad to be connected. What made just send one over? And it was just a very different vibration, a very different tone, a very different energy and really soft conversational language.

[00:06:17] Kris Ward: So I really want to tap. I really want to highlight that with you is when we are taught from all this education and courses and coaching and stuff about marketing and sales. Even when you’re being enthusiastic, I find now there is an edge to these words. And the thing that I have not seen anybody else do like you at all, which is so funny because you’re also like me, a very high energy person.

[00:06:43] Kris Ward: But the softness in which you converse is unlike anything I’ve ever seen and I’m here to tell you that I would have been doing it wrong for a hundred years with all the confidence in the [00:07:00] world had I not tripped over your materials and started really leaning into your work. 

[00:07:04] Darren Gibb: Thank you, Kris. That’s a hell of a compliment.

[00:07:06] Darren Gibb: Thank you, my friend. It is. It’s, I’m, as I mentioned in the last podcast, I’m down to the punctuation mark, when to use a question mark versus a full stop. So for example, if I was to say hope everything’s going well, sometimes I want to have a question mark, which makes the person read it with an upward inflection in their head.

[00:07:27] Darren Gibb: Or sometimes I want to have it more of a statement. Depending on who it is, that statement with a full stop can actually elicit a fuller answer than a question mark. So it’s very granular. I’m a nerd for this sort of stuff. Again, I was an English teacher for over a decade, so on that very fine level of language, I think it’s important.

[00:07:45] Darren Gibb: But you’re right, I’m high level as well. But it comes back to that idea of the frame of the, of being the prize. And that’s it. When we’re overly enthusiastic within the DMs, just like when we’re overly enthusiastic on the sales call, that can be [00:08:00] misinterpreted as being needy, as being wanted to be liked.

[00:08:03] Darren Gibb: And that’s something that I feel many people do. They go in either, you almost It’s not a case of going in, I’m high energy on a sales call, I am, but it’s measured high energy and it’s I’m not your friend. If we start working together you’ll get more of me and I’ll be like that. I’ve got to keep you at that arm’s length because otherwise it becomes just a couple of mates having a conversation and that’s not what it is.

[00:08:29] Darren Gibb: It’s a sales call, it’s a call to decide if you’re a good fit for me, number one, I don’t care how arrogant that sounds, You need to be a good fit for me.

[00:08:36] Kris Ward: No, that’s true. I do that. Yeah. 

[00:08:38] Darren Gibb: Number two, if you’re a good, if I’m a good fit for you, if those two are working together, then we can go ahead and I can let you know.

[00:08:45] Darren Gibb: So I think that’s what, it’s a little bit else like this, Kris, you’re not getting to know my price until I’ve decided that you’ve earned it. If you’re not my type of person, you’re not getting the price, you’re not even getting to that stage. If you’re difficult, if you’re constantly wanting shortcuts, if you’re constantly wanting, yeah but what this, if you’re the kind of sucker who falls for 10XY in 30 days, you’re not earning my price, and I’m not telling you because you don’t deserve it.

[00:09:12] Darren Gibb: And it sounds arrogant to say, but I do genuinely believe I am the price. And if I don’t, then what the hell am I on this call for? What often happens is that I feel people on sales calls transfer the element of prize to the prospect. And we start psychologically believing the prospect is a person to be won, because we win prizes, let’s be honest.

[00:09:33] Darren Gibb: When we start transferring it to that, we become needy. We start chasing, we start discounting, we start offering different deals. And that’s when we just lose absolutely everything. So we’re a prize. We have, we maintain the expert frame already. I was speaking to my clients about this just last night. We have an expert frame.

[00:09:51] Darren Gibb: When somebody gets onto a call with us, because we’ve warmed them up and emotionally led them through content, we’ve then emotionally led [00:10:00] them through the DMs, and we’re finally onto a call, they see Kris Ward as The person who could be able to fix their solution. That’s why they’re on the call. So they’ve already got this expert frame.

[00:10:12] Darren Gibb: That’s why we need to, at times, have a power frame where we set out an agenda on what we’re going to do at the very beginning of the call so it’s clear and they’re complicit with us. But we need to have this frame set up. So when we’ve got the prize frame, when we’ve got the expert frame, They’re the two key frames to be having.

[00:10:29] Darren Gibb: We also lay a few intrigue frames as well, which are important, and know how to bust certain types of frames as well, because prospects, whether they’re aware of it or not, will also play frames against us. So we need to know how to control, we call it frame control, and also frame stacking. So putting frames on top of one another.

[00:10:48] Darren Gibb: So an expert frame with a prize frame with an intrigue frame works really well together. It’s one of my favorites to use. So I’m the prize. I’m to be one, not you. Not being arrogant, it’s just [00:11:00] true. 

[00:11:00] Kris Ward: Yeah, it just is. 

[00:11:01] Darren Gibb: Number two, I’m the expert. That’s why I’m on this call with you, because you view me as an expert.

[00:11:06] Darren Gibb: And the intrigue, Kris, there’s a couple of things that can actually really turn around your sales call. The moment I say that, so I would say, for example, I’m going to shut up in a minute, I promise you quite often what we get hit is with an analyst’s frame. And an analyst’s frame is when they’re looking to, they want to know ROI.

[00:11:24] Darren Gibb: You can see it. When they’re starting to go around numbers in their head, or they’re fixated on something, and that fixation is, they’re using the logical part of their brain, using system two. What we want is the croc brain, the reptilian brain, the part of the brain that’s just the front core, frontal cortex, I believe it is, that’s just focused on emotion, because we buy through our emotions.

[00:11:46] Darren Gibb: We want to be activating that. That’s why stories work so nicely, because we’re engaged in emotion rather than logic. But this is what I would do, for example. So let’s say I could see you ticking over, Kristian, you’re not really paying attention to me, and you’re [00:12:00] engaging the logical part. There’s a certain type of buyer who naturally does this, the number eight style, what my friend Nancy would call it.

[00:12:07] Darren Gibb: Very analytical, very focused in ROI, constantly turning the numbers. What I would do there is I would lay a story. Story trapped, perhaps isn’t the right word. But I started saying, you know, Kris, you actually remind me of one of my clients. Now, one of my clients came to me and they were really good at what they did, really understood their market, and really actually had a great service.

[00:12:28] Darren Gibb: But the problem that they had was that they weren’t able to get them from the content into the DMs. And that was a key problem they were having. So there’s a couple of things that we worked on to solve that problem. But look Kris, we’ll come back to that. What you need to understand is, boom, and what I’ve done is I’ve set a story.

[00:12:47] Darren Gibb: I’ve got to the idea there was a problem that we’re having, the tension’s highest, the brain’s engaged. Now that person is paying attention to what I’m saying about the program or whatever it is because they want to hear the end of the story. [00:13:00] That’s the way us human beings are engineered psychologically.

[00:13:04] Darren Gibb: So it throws them off their analytical logical brain and it gets them paying attention to us because we’ve implied. They will hear the end of the story, but we’ve taken back that control, that power frame’s been shifted back to us. 

[00:13:18] Kris Ward: Oh my gosh. Okay. Where to start? Okay. I used to say too, like when I call the dark years of my business, when I was working insane hours and why I do what I do, and I think your business should support your life, not consume it and all that stuff.

[00:13:31] Kris Ward: And I used to think that I could go into a meeting and I would say, you affectionately and have this big bright smile. And my teeth were clenching because I’m thinking, oh my gosh, can he not talk quicker? I got to get out of here and I got to get this done and that done. And if he takes two minutes to find his keys or whatever to start up his computer, that means I’m four minutes behind the next meeting.

[00:13:49] Kris Ward: But I thought the smile on my face cover that all, but people smell and sense your stress. And I know that now, and I, and that’s really to your point of sales is you’re coming [00:14:00] in Thank you. Needing the sale or being aggressive and you think you’re suppressing it, but they can smell that off you.

[00:14:05] Kris Ward: So I think that’s really important. I think what you just did there is. I would have said the same thing. I would have told that story. But what we, most of us do poorly or now I would say incorrectly or wrong is I would throw a testimony like, Oh my gosh, this, I worked with this client, Kristine, and she did this and this happened whatever. But the way you gently like, Oh, you remind me of this client. So even the gentle reframing, plus of course that hook will come back. Cause I would think, Oh, you have to hear the end of this story because it’s so dramatic. It’s so good. I did so much good work with her. And so I would be, if anything, I would be rushing to the end of that story.

[00:14:47] Kris Ward: And I’d had to learn how to talk slower. Because I would want to bulldoze you with the excitement because I passionately, of course, we all passionately believe in what we do. And I just think you sh you [00:15:00] shouldn’t have to grind it out. But I would, you gently reframed it. Softly spoon fed it to them and then put a pause on it and that’s a different game altogether.

[00:15:12] Darren Gibb: Totally, because their brain’s thinking of something else and you’re losing them. So bring them back, because that story brings them back into their loop. Emotions triggered and they’re naturally wanting to hear the end of that story. So they’ll actually listen to the bit that perhaps they’re not wanting to hear particularly.

[00:15:28] Darren Gibb: But they need to hear to get that bit that you want them to hear that they want to hear the end of the story and how it is and it can work the other way around, Kris. So it came on again. An interesting one. If you’ve got somebody who’s giving you objections. So for me, it’s a LinkedIn. DM strategy, it’s not something that necessarily happens overnight.

[00:15:49] Darren Gibb: If you’ve got experience in A, B, C, X, Y, Z, yeah, it should be faster than somebody who’s picking it up for the first time. But LinkedIn typically is a longer game, especially the strategies that I teach. If they were [00:16:00] super simple, everyone would be doing them, right? If you were saying to me, Yeah, but Darren, Within 30 days, I want to have made X thousand dollars.

[00:16:09] Darren Gibb: Yeah, but Darren, within 20 days, I want to have X number of followers. I say, Kris, you remind me exactly of so many people. It’s people like you who actually never end up getting anywhere on LinkedIn. Because you’re so quick for the shortcut, you fall into that lazy marketing because you buy into it, and you end up giving up quickly.

[00:16:31] Darren Gibb: I see you all the time, Kris. I see you all the time. You’ve got this lofty ambition that you want to be here, right? At the moment you’re here, Kris, I need to be honest, I see you all the time. You can never be this person, not the way you are at the moment, because you’re looking for shortcuts and quick fixes that don’t actually work.

[00:16:52] Darren Gibb: You need to work on your mindset, you need to work on your resilience. Only when you do this, are you able to start beginning to move there. Kris, [00:17:00] this is going to hurt. But you need to step into the fire. At the moment you’re not, you’re running away from it, hoping that this quick 30 day offer and that’ll work.

[00:17:11] Darren Gibb: So I’ve seen you before, but it doesn’t work. What you need is, and then we prescribe what they need. And again, with the doctor, almost what you need is this, and this. Can you see how that’s more effective, Kris, than running in another? 67 offer, 30 days to get 5x your returns. Can you see how that no longer serves you, Kris?

[00:17:33] Darren Gibb: And it’s just that 

[00:17:34] Kris Ward: And I think too, what you’re doing here, which I’m always mindful of, is I never want to be in the position of convincing you of something. Because that’s not a good client to have. I don’t like the energy. So I, but I think compared to what I would do is I would then again, jump up with an example or testimonial.

[00:17:55] Kris Ward: And even though I’m against convincing somebody, your approach has them leaning into [00:18:00] you instead of me leaning in to defend and justify why this does work and why your framework is flawed. That’s not the case. I’m leaning back and now you have to like, you have to be the one to lean forward and do the change.

[00:18:14] Kris Ward: Yeah, it’s very ninja, soft ninja. 

[00:18:18] Darren Gibb: It is. And again, sometimes I find executives especially, they love it. They love to be told, you suck. You’re not doing this right. You’re not playing this the right way. You’re making excuses because nobody does. 

[00:18:33] Kris Ward: Yeah, 

[00:18:33] Darren Gibb: everybody’s or most people they got on sales calls with just want to rub their tummies and say I’ve got a really quick easy solution can’t justify this juxtapose that with me going this is going to hurt and it’s meant to it’s like when people say, Oh, that’s a lot per month retainer.

[00:18:50] Darren Gibb: Yeah, it’s Kris. And that’s meant to sting. This isn’t meant to be a nice walk in the park because you spent all this time up to now doing XYZ and [00:19:00] yet we’re still having this conversation. I guarantee, when you start paying that sort of money, you start working on people and drawing people towards you who pay that sort of money.

[00:19:09] Darren Gibb: But you need to step out of that. Remember I told you, you want to be here? That’s 

[00:19:13] Darren Gibb: how you should be gravitating towards there. People just love to hear it. Again, you’ve got to be soft and you’ve got to, you’ve got to Know who it is you’re speaking to. Some people, that would just terrify and scare off. I might make an argument, attract and repel.

[00:19:27] Darren Gibb: Okay, if you can’t take truth, it’s probably not going to be a good fit anyway to work with one another. But yeah, people absolutely, they appreciate the honesty. Rather than being told, this will be easy, you won’t notice it, you’ll be great, this is painless. No, this will be painful, but I know what I’m going to do with you, Kris.

[00:19:46] Darren Gibb: Because I’ve been here before. People love it.

[00:19:48] Kris Ward: I think I always say the kindest thing you can give anybody is the truth, right? And I think that, reminds me if you’ve ever, I don’t know if somebody in your family or you know someone where their parent [00:20:00] is trying to act like their best friend and that’s not a healthy relationship, right?

[00:20:03] Kris Ward: They don’t need a friend. They need a parent, right? And even the kid knows that I don’t need a parent. I like, whatever. I don’t need you to be the cool mom. I need you to be a mom. And that kind of, that. That subtlety, when somebody’s not technically doing anything wrong, but there is this energy where this relationship is just not working, it really reminds me of the softness and I don’t, the way you, it’s almost like making a river go a certain way and just moving things so the river flows, but you’re not pushing up against it because I noticed the more I follow your work is.

[00:20:35] Kris Ward: It’s almost you need to be the expert. And the way you set yourself up as the expert is really a gentle framework versus being the fan. Because I know if somebody connected with me on DM, I think, yes, I will give you the truth, whatever. But I will also start off in a very Hey, I love your profile.

[00:20:53] Kris Ward: I think you did a really good job on the banner, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, yeah, stopping the fangirl. Like I just thought, Oh, it’s, you can always [00:21:00] find something nice to say about someone and start off and what’s wrong with that? Start off with being very positive. And yes, people like me and they think I’m nice, but I don’t need, it’s nice that they like me, but I want them to like me as their mentors or coaches or consultant as their expert, not as somebody in high school with them. So even that, it seemed to me like a really effective plan. People remembered me, they thought I was kind and thoughtful and your whole sales language.

[00:21:26] Kris Ward: Just has a different vibration and a different communication. And even the structure of your sentences and the, you add that they’re shorter or they mirror somebody else’s sentence or the grammar, get rid of the exclamation marks. There’s just so much to me. It’s like a chef. You could be, build a room with a bunch of really amazing chefs and it’s the spices, it’s the little things that they put at the end that separates them from their competitors or makes them a James Beard award nominee. It’s just those spices. I and I see that consistent in your work. 

[00:21:59] Darren Gibb: Thank [00:22:00] you. I think you’re right. It is. It’s it’s yours. Having been on this profile on this platform. It’s yours. Having with myself, my clients generated multi seven figures between us.

[00:22:10] Darren Gibb: It is just that, I think it’s getting more and more difficult. In theory, to be closing deals in LinkedIn because there’s so many more users, so many people at it. I might suggest though that actually it’s with the right strategy, it’s never been easier because there are so many people doing for me the wrong thing.

[00:22:29] Darren Gibb: There’s more than one way to skin a cat. There’s no doubt about that. There’s more than one way to sell. I’ve not got the answer that only my answer works. I think what I do have though is a consistent process that allows people who don’t have a background in sales, but are passionate about what they do and good at what they do to actually really win.

[00:22:48] Darren Gibb: So it is that. I think it’s having a, it’s having a system which just works. It’s proven. It’s nuanced. That’s a word that I always use. It’s the idea of nuance, and it should be [00:23:00] nuanced. And I think that when we’re going through sales scripts, which I see all the time, they just don’t work. It’s a sophisticated audience.

[00:23:09] Darren Gibb: 44 percent of people on LinkedIn are college educated and above. That’s not to say anybody who’s not got a degree isn’t smart. I am not suggesting that for a second. Yeah. But it is a educated audience, and I think in the rise of pitch slapping that we’ve seen over the last five years or so, they’re used to it now, so you need to have a different strategy, and I think we spoke the other episode ago about DM strategy, how to take it from content to DMs, and then, yeah, really into the sales.

[00:23:39] Darren Gibb: There’s three simple parts to a sales call. Number one, the background. How did they get to where they are today? It’s really important that we have that start of the part of the conversation because it’s in that background part that we’re actually removing any sort of friction because naturally they’re aware they’re on a call with [00:24:00] you.

[00:24:00] Darren Gibb: They’re aware that you’re, they’re here to potentially be sold to, but they’re still anxious. No matter how much you’ve had a great conversation with the DMs, no matter how strong the prize frame is, the expert frame that they hold you in, they’re still anxious. So we instantly start going in and having conversations about problems.

[00:24:18] Darren Gibb: It sets the conversation off on the wrong note. And I think that’s vital. So get them talking about their background, how they got to here. Again, if you’re not doing your research, my goodness, you should be looking on LinkedIn, looking at their experience, looking at, obviously, within their industry, where they’ve worked, where they went to school, looking at 

[00:24:35] Kris Ward: Wait, hold on. So you’re saying I have to jump in here, so 

[00:24:38] Darren Gibb: Please. 

[00:24:39] Kris Ward: I can’t wait. So you’re saying, if I’m dealing with a prospect, instead of saying, okay, hey, Darren, if you, a year from now, you said, Oh my gosh, I met Kris, my whole life changed. What would be different? So they might start off with, okay, great. I wouldn’t be doing this, working all these crazy hours doing this anymore.

[00:24:56] Kris Ward: Boom boom, which is really leading them to the problem. So you’re [00:25:00] saying most of us want to hear all the problem because then we can answer to that. And you’re saying that’s a horrible place to start. 

[00:25:08] Darren Gibb: Yes, absolutely. Okay. All right. 

[00:25:10] Kris Ward: Where do you start? 

[00:25:12] Darren Gibb: So I would start literally. I don’t hear her.

[00:25:14] Darren Gibb: Listen, here’s the, here’s what I would literally do in a call. Kris, great to meet you. How are you getting on today? 

[00:25:21] Kris Ward: Very well. 

[00:25:22] Darren Gibb: Lovely. Listen, there’s three things I want to do with you today, okay? Number one, really want to find out a little bit about your background. I know you’re in productivity, but before that you were ex.

[00:25:31] Darren Gibb: So I want to hear about that transition. Next up in the DMs, you mentioned. For example, you mentioned that DM strategy was something you felt was holding you back, right? Okay, so we’re going to go through that and I’m going to offer you some solutions. Now, finally, if it feels like you’re going to be a good fit for me, sorry, but I need to make sure, and I’m going to be a good fit for you, I’m going to let you know a little bit more about what it would look like if we worked together.

[00:25:55] Darren Gibb: Does that sound okay to you? 

[00:25:57] Kris Ward: Yeah, it sounds great. I was laughing at the beginning because I thought I have to get [00:26:00] that Scottish accent down for the intro. I’m like, all right, I have to work on that. Okay. I, and that does feel safe. on, 

[00:26:07] Darren Gibb: hold on, Kris. Hold on, Kris. Let me break this down. You’ve just given me the first yes within one minute of meeting.

[00:26:14] Darren Gibb: We know if we can get them saying yes 15 times or more within the conversation, we start to see an exponential increase in them saying yes and we give them a price and they agree to work with us. We want them saying yes and nodding as much as possible. Therefore we need to set up opportunities for that.

[00:26:29] Darren Gibb: We want them to be conditioned to nodding and to saying yes from early on. This makes the close a hell of a lot easier. Therefore we’ve got our first yes. Brian Crystal, look, X to Y, tell me about it. I’m taking you off the idea you’re being sold to, I’m taking you off the idea that there’s a problem and I’m just getting you talking five to ten minutes to remove friction.

[00:26:54] Darren Gibb: Just get you talking, it’s easy to talk about. Now, here’s the beautiful part. Whatever it is you do, my [00:27:00] friends, or you’re listening to, there’s going to be something within that information which should lead towards a problem that they’re unlikely to have. So start just going through it. So I help people in LinkedIn and social selling.

[00:27:11] Darren Gibb: Okay, Kris, I’ve got you. So you went from there to there, just to interrupt you there. And how did that work? Is that something you had to put a lot of hours into? 

[00:27:20] Kris Ward: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I did. 

[00:27:21] Darren Gibb: Was that hard? Was that a difficult transition? 

[00:27:23] Kris Ward: Yeah, I’m, I worked out several times.

[00:27:25] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:27:26] Darren Gibb: Yeah. Okay. So how do you tend to deal with challenges in the face of adversity? 

[00:27:30] Kris Ward: I just steal from sleep. I stay later, get up earlier. 

[00:27:33] Darren Gibb: Okay, perfect. And then, so do you see what I’m doing? I’m actually finding out what kind of person are you? How do you deal with challenges? Are you a hard worker?

[00:27:41] Darren Gibb: Are you lazy, caught corners? This guy, I can then refer back to this later on. So I guess later on, getting to the problem, so can you see how that’s going to help? Now, I know that you are, you mentioned you’re a hard worker, you tend to steal from the sleep, which there’s got to be a better way perhaps to do it, but it tells me you’re dedicated [00:28:00] to solving that solution.

[00:28:01] Darren Gibb: Can you see how that’s going to help? So just within that very innocuous introductory section where we’re finding out about their history, we can find out a lot of information that we can then Help us to make decisions and to sometimes kick back on objections as well if they come up later on. So just asking the right questions and within there, before getting to the problem, if it came the right moment, I would ask, So you know, what does a day on LinkedIn look like for you at the moment?

[00:28:29] Darren Gibb: Is that a lot of comments you tend to be sending? Okay. And I can just start beginning to build a picture and it also gives me a feeling for, is this person going to be full of bullshit? Is this person going to be full of objections? Is this person going to work or is this person wanting it done for them?

[00:28:44] Darren Gibb: It just gives me a good feeling and I just know how to navigate the conversation that little bit more. Just five minutes, no more than ten, but five minutes finding out about their background and seeing what questions you can glean from there. It’s nuanced. But yes, we can get a lot of information without [00:29:00] them realising we’re getting a lot of information.

[00:29:02] Kris Ward: Oh my gosh, Darren, where’s the time go? I think we could interview you on Friday. It’s like just, it’s Friday, let’s interview Darren. I think it’s like, to me, it’s like music and it’s like you hear there’s symphonies, there’s bands and they all plug in. So they may be playing different songs, but they all have similar equipment, right?

[00:29:22] Kris Ward: And there’s a similar beat or melody to what they’re doing. And I see your approach to sales and marketing is almost like an acoustic guitar where it’s very soft and everyone has to listen and now we’re playing the melody and the audience is really quiet and it’s a song. But it’s got a different energy and a different vibe.

[00:29:40] Kris Ward: And yet now we’re leaning into the acoustic guitar player, even though it’s a stadium filled with lots of people, we’re all really quiet because the tune and everything and the energy about it is very different than everything we’ve known before. And that’s the thing, there are. All kinds of salespeople and all kinds of marketing people, and there’s still a certain [00:30:00] energy or vibe to them all where yours is just, I think, refreshingly different and really comes off just so much gentler and I think it would be rewarding once you learn this craft, but also really much easier on the prospect.

[00:30:14] Darren Gibb: Yeah, it is. It’s a conversation. I often say, does this feel like it’s been a sales conversation? No, it’s dropped X amount to work or to do something, but no, and it’s a conversation. That’s the beauty of social selling. By the time you get them onto a call, they’re red hot, or at least warm.

[00:30:33] Darren Gibb: And also, that’s another thing as well. Make people earn a call. The best message to get is to someone saying, Hey. not have a coffee chat because they’re just a waste of time. Oh my gosh. But I actually happen to be saying, Hey, I’d love to know what it would be like to work with you. We should jump on a call.

[00:30:48] Darren Gibb: That’s a really fun one to have because they’re unwittingly, they’re taking the power frame straight off the bat. They’re saying, I’m deciding we should have a call. And it’s Very enjoyable, and you can [00:31:00] always get, I always, I put a little tax on that, I would always charge a little bit extra if they’re high worth individuals, because I know it’s going to be an easy sale, but it’s a case of pushing back and going, hold on Kris, I’ve not said we’re having a call.

[00:31:13] Darren Gibb: Why do you think I’m going to give you a call? Work it and then make them earn it. Now, it’s always in a place of love because again, it’s making sure that they’re the right person for me. But it just establishes that relationship to be a lot stronger from the very beginning. So if someone said, we should jump on a call and we should jump on a call and explore this.

[00:31:30] Darren Gibb: I would always go, yeah, in theory happy to, but I’m really protective about my time. So look, just out of interest, how is it you feel that I can help you? See, I’ve turned it around on them now. And they’re gonna go it’ll be X, Y, Z. Okay, why do you think that’s a problem? Okay, what have you done to try and solve that?

[00:31:50] Darren Gibb: Okay, why do you think that’s not worked? Why do you think I could help this again? Okay, based on what you said, yeah, okay, we can jump on a call. But rather than just going, yes, [00:32:00] remember, I’m the prize, not them. And that goes for everyone here. They’re the prize, so if they’re coming to you saying, Kris, I really want a call.

[00:32:06] Darren Gibb: You’re the prize. Remember, you’re the prize. 

[00:32:08] Kris Ward: And we would have all jumped on the call. Oh my gosh, this is good news. They want to have a call with me. Done. Sound the alarm. Ding ding. We won. But, okay, great. What are you hoping to get out of this call? Let’s get, and so then you’re getting them from warm to hot, really.

[00:32:21] Darren Gibb: Yes, that’s it. It’s called hot, yeah, we can call it hot cognitions, this idea of being emotional, emotion coming, they will naturally tell fragments of stories within that conversation because they’re now having to sell themselves to you. When we get somebody selling themselves to us, which should happen at Sales Call as well.

[00:32:39] Darren Gibb: So Kris, why do you feel, I used to say in job interviews, I’d always turn the table and go, So why should I work here? I’ve got a lot of options. 

[00:32:47] Kris Ward: Yeah, I did. I always ask that question. Why will I? Yeah. I did that. There you go. Yeah. What have you would have to operate? 

[00:32:51] Darren Gibb: So it’s good to do that In a sales call.

[00:32:52] Darren Gibb: Just saying. Why do you feel that I, that you why, why do you feel that I should let you work with me? What is it that you bring to the [00:33:00] table? What is it you’re gonna be doing? And it’s, again, turning the tables make themselves. Do you, it’s a little, like a bit of a PPA push or something else in Scottish, a push pool technique where.

[00:33:11] Darren Gibb: Again if I can see that you’re maybe being difficult, Kris, and you’re giving me the no, but I want to 5x my results within 30 days, I say, Kris, look, I’m not going to guarantee 5x anything in 30 days because that’s ridiculous. And that’s for fools. And if you honestly believe that nonsense, you and I are not going to be a good fit together. And maybe it’s a time to just end this call right now. 

[00:33:35] Kris Ward: As we wrap up here, that always reminds me when you see people online saying, whatever, I made all this money in one day. And to me, that’s like Michael Phelps saying, Oh, I won whatever, 10 gold medals in swimming in one day. No, he collected them in one day.

[00:33:50] Kris Ward: He’s been working on this for four to eight years, right? He was awarded in that one day, those medals. So even if the cash all came in on one day. You didn’t do it [00:34:00] in a day. You didn’t get up, yawn and stretch, stretch and have breakfast. And then all of a sudden, wisdom bestowed upon you at 9am and you turned your whole life around, made all this money in one day.

[00:34:08] Kris Ward: So you’re right. That whole false sense of how much 10 X can we do in all this is foolishness. Oh my gosh. Darren. 

[00:34:15] Darren Gibb: Just having that pause there, Kris, and just saying, so it’s not good. I don’t think this is going to work. Pause. 

[00:34:21] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:34:22] Darren Gibb: Which is a real shame, because given the problems you were talking to me about, I know I can fix them, but I need you to get on board.

[00:34:29] Darren Gibb: All of a sudden, people start changing. It’s a really quick Jedi mind trick, and boom, they’re now selling themselves to you. They’re you’ve called them on their bullshit, and they’ve gone, Yeah, they’re right. He’s right. She’s right. Okay. Yeah. And they start selling themselves to you. It’s amazing. Sales is amazing. Oh my gosh. 

[00:34:46] Kris Ward: Ah! Okay, Darren, where can people find more of your brilliance? 

[00:34:51] Darren Gibb: They can find more of me on linkedin.com/n/DarrenGibb. They’ve got my website and up in my newsletter, www.darrengibb. com. I need to be using Instagram and TikTok and all that. They can find you on LinkedIn.

[00:35:06] Kris Ward: My gosh. What the heck are we doing? Yeah. Oh my gosh, please share this episode with a business buddy. There’s just, it is chock full of content. You just you, like why would be working harder than you have to, right? Why beat your head against the wall? Listen to this show. Re listen this show. Share it with a friend.

[00:35:23] Kris Ward: Darren, we cannot thank you enough for coming back. Oh, good times. And I can’t lie. We may see you again. Who knows? All right, everyone else. We’ll see you in the next episode. Thanks so much. 

[00:35:33] Darren Gibb: Thank you so much, everyone. Thanks, Kris. And let’s go for part three. The best things have three parts, Kris. Let’s just do part three if you wish and the audience wish.

[00:35:40] Darren Gibb: I’d be honored. 

[00:35:41] Kris Ward: Okay, let’s just, let’s call it a day. Part three is coming to theaters near you. All right. Thanks everyone