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Recent Podcast Episodes

3 Biggest Mistakes In Reaching New Clients! With Vince Warnock

Episode Summary

Vince Warnock schools us on big mistakes we are all making when trying to get new business. Vince’s process is simple but powerful.  Listen in as you hear me go from hesitant to “aha.” 

Learn how
-the biggest language problem and how to avoid it
-how to do effective market research on a dime
-and what is your kryptonite and how to avoid it

Vince Warnock is an award-winning Business and Marketing Strategist, coach and author of Chasing the Insights.  An ex-radio announcer with over 20 years in marketing. Vince has founded multiple companies including the Chasing the Insights Podcast and Academy where he empowers entrepreneurs and business owners to grow the business they have always dreamed of.

With over 20 years in the marketing and technology industry, Vince is an ex-radio announcer and previously the Chief Marketing Officer at Cigna Life Insurance and co-founder of high growth tech startup Common Ledger.  Vince now focusses on his passion which is to empower entrepreneurs to gain consistent results by experimenting with digital marketing.  A sought after public speaker, Vince has been recognized by his peers with numerous awards including being named a Fearless50, a program designed to recognize the top 50 marketers in the world who are driving bold, fearless marketing and digital transformation.

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Vince Warnock Podcast Transcription

[00:04:08] Kris Ward: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of win the hour, win the day podcast. I am your host, Chris ward. And today we have Vince Warnock. He is an award winning business and marketing strategist, coach, and author of changing the insights as a former radio announcer.

[00:04:28] With 20 years in marketing, Vince has founded multiple companies, including chasing insights Academy, where he empowers entrepreneurs and business owners to grow the business. They. Always dreamed of that sounds great with oodles of marketing and technology experience in that industry, Vince has become just profoundly known for all his creative aspects for marketing.

[00:04:51] And we’re going to talk to him about that a little bit today. We’re going to dive into something that I think is really unique and really something very interesting and how he came about to think of that. Of course, he’s a sought after speaker, but we’re lucky to have him here today. Welcome to the show Vince.

[00:05:05] Vince Warnock: Oh, thank you so much, Chris. I’m lucky to be here. I love your show. I full disclosure. I am actually addicted to your podcast. Oh, I

[00:05:13] Kris Ward: didn’t know

[00:05:14] Vince Warnock: that.

[00:05:15] Kris Ward: Okay. Let’s talk about me for the next half hour. Okay. That is awesome. All right. Thank you so much for your kind words. Okay. Feeds let’s dive in. You were telling me an interesting story.

[00:05:26] Interesting story. And let’s start there. You, you take the, take the floor.

[00:05:30] Vince Warnock: Yeah. Yeah, sure. So, um, I was telling Chris about the fact that. Uh, so my entrepreneurial journey started quite young. My first business was when I was 11. Um, unfortunately it was parting video games. Cause I didn’t know it was illegal back then.

[00:05:43] I was young and nobody, nobody was there to guide me. Okay. But don’t hold me to it. I know that one. Um, but then in the years forward, uh, there was a concept called startup weekend, uh, which I’m not sure if you’re familiar with it. But you basically get a pile of marketeers, Apollo developers, Apollo designers, all in the same room together.

[00:06:03] Um, we hit around a thing. It was 120. It was the first day of a startup weekend and here in Wellington, New Zealand. Um, and you get all these people in the room together, you pitch your ideas and they pick, I think, around 12 of them. Um, and then you form a team around you and you’ve got one weekend. To build this company.

[00:06:20] Um, so it’s a huge amount of pressure, a lot of fun. Um, there’s a lot of fights in that.

[00:06:24] Kris Ward: Glad you added the fun, cause it didn’t sound like fun. So hold on. Now, is this something you did for fun or something to launch a business? Cause that sounds very stressful to me.

[00:06:33] Vince Warnock: Did it kind of both? Actually I did for fun.

[00:06:36] I mean I created from that never went anywhere. It was. A failure, which was awesome. Cause we just had a lot of fun ourselves and I learned very quickly, you need to get the right developer on board because if you’re going to develop a doesn’t know what he’s doing, that’s a problem. A very big learning tool.

[00:06:53] Yeah. I come up with this concept. I pitched the idea to everyone that was called mobile combat and it was in the early days of. Um, we’re Android phones were just coming into prominence and everyone was either an iPhone fan or an Android fan was probably about two or three people in the world that were windows mobile fans.

[00:07:10] But anyway, um, so I wanted to create a game where you could put Android users versus iPhone users, et cetera, up your phone. It would automate cause I had an Android phone. It would automatically detect. And how many people were logged into this app that were using an iPhone in your area. Wouldn’t give you any info in the middle.

[00:07:28] Just say that they’re there. You could then choose to better than they could choose to accept. And the idea was you would take your city or your country or your area, your region, even your street for your particular platform. Um, so it was a better kind of bragging rights, you know, Android versus iOS.

[00:07:43] That was really cool. Um, but we needed to validate this idea and I thought, you know what? I’ve got this, you know, this is my idea. I’m the marketing guy. This is going to be really simple. I’m going to grab a clipboard, some paper and a pen. I’m going to rush out to the streets and I’m going to get customer feedback.

[00:07:58] Because what we wanted to know was not just as a sound interesting. Cause everyone would say, yeah, that sounds fun.

[00:08:03] Kris Ward: yeah,

[00:08:04] Vince Warnock: But we want to know. Yeah. Are they actually going to kind of close any gap? Are they actually going to be able to pay for something like this or

[00:08:12] Kris Ward: mental note, your, your mother, your friends and your cousins will always agree with you and then you think you have a great idea.

[00:08:18] Okay,

[00:08:18] Vince Warnock: go ahead. Exactly. So, so I needed to test this. So we grabbed our peanut paper and everything. We went out into the street, um, and very quickly learned that. When you’re standing in the middle of the street time, trying to accost to somebody coming towards you. And they either think that you’re asking for donations or they think you’re some kind of crazy street preacher.

[00:08:36] And either way, they did not want to give us their time. I also realized that when you’re trying to Acosta people there, they’re on a journey they’re going somewhere. You really don’t kind of stand around the street doing nothing. So that was kind of deflating. No one gave us their time. I’m going, this is ridiculous.

[00:08:51] This should have been really easy. So it was funny, sorry,

[00:08:55] Kris Ward: surveys where they say, can you fill out this survey? It’ll take no longer than 15 minutes. What

[00:09:01] Vince Warnock: exactly. We’ve all got 15 minutes.

[00:09:03] Kris Ward: Yeah, sure. I got nothing but time I could call my mother, but okay, go ahead. Yes. Okay. So, so that didn’t work.

[00:09:08] Vince Warnock: Okay. Okay.

[00:09:09] So I needed this feedback, right? I really did need to validate this, um, the potential of this business. So I thought, Oh, this is crazy. This is never going to work. I need a captive audience and I was getting this. So I was trying to rack my brain, but I thought, screw this I’m really thirsty. I want to go and get a coffee.

[00:09:27] So I went to a cafe and I want to be a local kid, Facebook mini here in Wellington. Um, but I’m standing in line in this cafe and I’m just moaning to myself going, Oh man, I need, I need a captive audience. This is ridiculous. Where am I going to get a captive audience? As I waited in line for about five minutes to get my coffee.

[00:09:43] And then it was one of those embarrassing moments where the epiphany hits and the penny drops and you’re like, wait a minute. I am a captive audience. I’m stuck in line here. And not only, not only five minutes in line to order my coffee, I’ve got to wait for them to make my coffee as well. So I thought I’m going to test this.

[00:09:59] I started talking to people in the line, say, look, can I buy your coffee? If you give me some feedback? Yeah. Cause I’m looking at, and I explain what I’m trying to do there. And yeah. Without a doubt, a hundred percent of the people said yes. And I thought there is something to this. So what I did was I talked to the, I got up to the front line, talk to the owner there, or the manager and said, look, I’m going to leave my credit card on the counter here.

[00:10:22] I’m going to talk to some people in line and I’m going to pay for their coffee. So when they order it, you just put it on my credit card. If they give me just two minutes of their time. Okay. Fine. Yeah. So, so that started the whole concept of. Coffee line tests. Uh, interestingly it did validate my, um, the business that we wanted to start.

[00:10:41] It really did validate it. Um, people’s feedback was incredible people going, Oh yeah. Actually, you know, they were talking through what they would want to buy in the app to help them like, you know, power ups, all kind of things. And they started getting really excited. Um, it still didn’t help the business at all.

[00:10:55] We failed,

[00:10:57] Kris Ward: but the lessons from this I think are really interesting because. When you even first told me it, I was like, Oh, I don’t know. Right. Because, but what happened was they were captive. They were waiting. You offered to pay for something they didn’t yet have, versus if they had the coffee in their hand, I’ll reimburse you.

[00:11:14] Or these promises, if you give me two minutes of your time, I’ll give you this coupon or I’ll give you a gift card for $2 or whatever. It’s still, somehow you came out ahead. Bye. I think rejigging like just reorganizing the order of how that transaction happened. And then I also think too, the, the, uh, leadership of putting the credit card down and saying, this is what’s going to happen.

[00:11:36] Versus when they stand there, then they have to look at you saying, you know, he’s got my, he’s got, you know, they got to pull you over and get you to pay. Right. So I think it was done with great finesse that didn’t, I didn’t understand. At first, like I was still thinking, Oh, I don’t know if I would have bothered somebody in line, but if you’re offering them something first, that’s the secret there.

[00:11:54] So I think that’s really profound. So how have you, what, what do you do with that philosophy now with your, you know, with your business, your clients?

[00:12:03] Vince Warnock: I kind of, uh, a few things happened. I had to kind of evolve it over over the years, mainly because you have to get it. It’s all good to get time in front of a potential customer.

[00:12:13] Um, but you need to learn very quickly how to ask the right questions, um, and how to not lead them. Uh, it’s very, it’s very easy as humans. We’re all riddled with cognitive bias. It’s very easy for us to try and, um, kind of push them down a pathway just to prove that we were right all along rather than actually to get feedback.

[00:12:31] So I learned very quickly, don’t ask direct questions and a lot of cases, like you asked them, if you can record it, you just record it on your phone, and then what you do is you get them to tell you a little story. So, for example, if you, uh, like some of the ways we would use it is if we were looking to validate, um, a website or validate a service or something like that, we will go tell us about a time where you have, uh, interacted with somebody like this, or tell us about a time we’re all, or actually tell us how you would research this.

[00:13:00] What would you do if you wanted to find information such as this. And the, and, and telling you, they not only give you the information you need, but they also, they give you the language that they use. So as, as it’s really, really powerful to hear from them, what, and a good example, actually. So. I used to I’m a digital marketer.

[00:13:18] Um, one of the years of expertise I have is search engine optimization. So I remember talking, this was when I was a lot younger. I have learned since then, I remember talking to these two women who, um, they really needed help with their website. They weren’t even showing up on Google and there was a number of reasons why, but I said to them, look, I can do a full SEO audit for you.

[00:13:38] I can do. And they, they just looked at me blankly and said, look, I don’t care about any of that. I just want to be in Google. And I’m like, do I need it? The language that they understood and said, look, I can audit this and find out why you’re not ranking in Google. Why are you not appearing? And I can help you to get there.

[00:13:55] Um, so that gives you some really valuable input from them.

[00:13:59] Kris Ward: That does touch on a couple of really important points because it is, we all get caught up in our area, Sri, and then we know, and, and we also think we’re doing it. Yeah, disservice. Like I remember talking to a nutritionist once and she had these people in the audience and everybody in the audience had signatures.

[00:14:13] If it can’t wait to lose, they, they claimed close to a hundred pounds. Each one of them. And she’s up there. And she is now talking about the digestive system that like, maybe I would want to know if she knew that if she was going to operate on me, but everybody in the room just wanted to know, can I lose 50 pounds really quickly?

[00:14:29] Because this is no longer a joke. Right. And you get caught up in your own language. So it really is hard until somebody else says something. You go, Oh, right. Okay. I got to like, this is really, they don’t care about the digestion they can. I fit in these jeans is what they were looking for. So we, we left.

[00:14:47] From the coffee shop to getting in front of people about websites in this virtual world, you know, where, especially right now with things that will being a little bit different. How do you, how do you do that? Charm swagger switch bait thing that you do in a virtual world? As far as, you know, not pestering people.

[00:15:05] Can I get your feedback? Do you have any ideas for

[00:15:07] Vince Warnock: that? Yeah, adadapting to the virtual worlds, probably being the hardest one of this. Um, I, I managed to adapt this for business environment, which is also another challenge there because obviously when you’re dealing with businesses and you’re dealing with the kind of key stakeholders there, they’re not necessarily in a coffee line and everyone in that line isn’t necessarily your target market.

[00:15:28] So you’ve got to go where they are. Um, so we adapted that through using events and things. Um, but the online path has been quite difficult. Um, so what I have done is looked at doing group zoom calls or doing zoom, but you have to find something that you can offer to other people. Um, so a lot of cases it’s like, you know, give me five minutes of your time.

[00:15:50] I’ll review this for you. I’ll help you with this. Um, it’s, it’s basically just about giving first. Like if you’re giving them something, they’re willing to give you something back.

[00:16:00] Kris Ward: So if you give your expertise, like, look, I’m trying to finesse this cause I want to serve more people better. And what I’ll do is I will teach you, like, in my case where we talk about building your wind team, your what is next team?

[00:16:10] So I might say, look, if you hop on the call with me, I’ll give you the five strategies to how to get you started to hiring. And then I would love you to answer just two minutes of questions for me.

[00:16:20] Vince Warnock: That’s exactly.

[00:16:21] Kris Ward: Okay. All right. That makes sense. Okay. That’s a good path. All right. So let’s dive a little bit deeper into, you know, keep us going on this journey of how you really are looking at getting collecting information from marketing and from different resources.

[00:16:36] Vince Warnock: Yeah, well the, so the, the adaption to business to business was the interesting one. So, um, I remember when I started common ledger, we knew we had to get in front of the right people. Um, we were going to conferences. So there was a conference in Australia called Xerocon con. So we would fly my team over there to Melbourne and Sydney and go to Xerocon, which is where you’ve got a, a huge, um, auditorium full of accountants.

[00:16:59] Very exciting.

[00:17:00] Kris Ward: Oh, that sounds really. Well, that’s worth the plane ride right there. A room like a stadium full of accountants. Awesome. Okay. So that’s where the party began. Alright. Take it from there. Yeah,

[00:17:12] Vince Warnock: we did a couple things here. One we knew we had to kind of get people outside of the conference. So we would do things like, Hey, we’ll pay for breakfast, get a bunch of people together to hear from us, but I really needed to get that direct feedback from as many different accountants as possible.

[00:17:25] So we looked at, do we hire a booth there? And as a, as an early stage startup, that is a big cost for us. So we got really efficient cause you kind of have to do them. Necessity’s the mother of invention. So instead I just gave the guys, we all had iPads, so I just created a custom, some form for them.

[00:17:43] Everyone had it on their iPads and we realized when you go to these conferences, the one area that you have a captive audience is the lunch line. And at Xerocon, there was always a problem. The lunch lines were huge, so run to the lunch line and we’d work our way all the way back. And what you would do is go up to people with this little survey.

[00:18:01] And it was seven questions. Really, really simple. And you would just say to people, Hey, can you, do you want to fill out the survey to go in the draw to win a bottle of whiskey and ad accounts? Apparently go down very, very well, really well with me as well. Pocket

[00:18:16] Kris Ward: calculator, you could win a pocket calculator.

[00:18:21] Vince Warnock: Oh, they already had one. That was the public. Yeah. So, but we, we had designed it in such a way that as you went down the line, you would, you would get that no, for the Alice survey and it served three purposes, the first one is a gave you direct feedback. So it helped to kind of inform what we were doing as a business and form that what we’re doing was valid.

[00:18:41] Second thing it would do is each of those questions was designed to be a press release in itself. Because if you’re getting feedback from, you know, 200 people at a conference, so 200 accountants, that is a pretty good kind of database, a pretty good kind of data set to go to the media and say, look, question one was, what is the challenges?

[00:19:01] I can’t remember the exact wording, but what are the challenges that the new cloud based solutions are? Are, um, presenting to accountants. So you can go back and say, look, you know, 90% of accountants, they actually worried about this aspect of cloud based solutions. So suddenly there was a press release.

[00:19:16] So we would use this to get the coverage and it worked incredibly well. That is

[00:19:22] Kris Ward: crazy. Sorry, let me jump in there because I have to say to you every time you start the story, I consistently doubt you. It reminds me, it reminds me one time. My mom and my sister was going to show my mom had a. Do this funky thing on her wall, in her house like this, I don’t know, artistic thing.

[00:19:38] And my mother said right before she started, yes. Okay. We can do this. It was like a construction thing, but I want you to know before we start, I have absolutely no faith in you. Right. It’s like, okay. I don’t believe this is going to work because the framework of what you say, it sounds like, yeah. Yeah, I’ve done it before.

[00:19:55] And we’ve all cross the street gently. Cause you don’t want to. Be rude to somebody, but nor do you want to stand there for 10 minutes and answer a question. And so I think the subtlety tweaking that you did, it’s like, okay, now we’re at a conference. We’re tired. We all had boots. I’m lining up for food.

[00:20:09] Now you can’t afford to buy us all breakfast. So what are you going to offer me? Oh, okay. Well, I’ll talk to you. Nice person. Okay. And you’re, I mean, a raffle to win. Okay, great. And I’m standing here anyhow. I might as well. So cause the whole idea of when I’m walking by and you pull me over to fill out a form raffle to win, I think, Oh, you just want my email address.

[00:20:26] You’re going to start, you know, doing whatever. So these are really, it’s kind of like a good chef, you know, it’s a little bit of spice of something that somebody else isn’t using and changes the whole recipe.

[00:20:38] Vince Warnock: I love that. And that was, you’re going to steal that. Yeah, I think too is it is about, there’s a mindset to this and you’re right.

[00:20:46] Um, a lot of the reason a lot of marketers don’t do this is exactly the problems that you’ve talked about, but there’s the mindset coming into this that really does frame it well, and that is how can I add value to these people? Like how do I not be that pissed? How do I not be that really annoying marketer or spam or whatever else.

[00:21:02] So, if you’re coming at it from that angle, then you’re thinking of it through your case customers or your potential customers, um, kind of world, uh, that makes it so much easier. So would these, you would, we wouldn’t just put them in the drawer for a bottle of wine. We would actually send the stamps to them afterwards.

[00:21:18] We would actually seen them because it’s something that they’re curious about and they want to know we’re kind of follow up with, Hey, thanks for your feedback. Just so you know, you’re, you’re actually quite normal. Um, 90% of accountants are really worried about this and we would give them the stance for that.

[00:21:29] So we’re suddenly engaging with them. But the other, the other purpose that, um, those surveys did really well for us, as well as giving us the language that the accountants use, the challenges and validating what we were building, it would also open up a conversation. And this was the thing that I didn’t actually intend going in, but became, uh, one of the biggest benefits from it.

[00:21:50] So you were standing there going, tell us about your concerns or, or tell us about the biggest frustration you have with all of these different solutions that are out there. And they would, they, every time they would come back and they like, Oh, don’t get me started. And they would tell you exactly what their problems and I would go, okay, well, what would be the solution for you?

[00:22:08] And in their case, they always turn around, Oh, if only we had just one thing that would make them all talk together. And I go, you’re kidding me. We’re literally beta testing that right now. And they always responded with, I won. And so they were actually asking you. To put them on the Baylor list, asking you to Vita solution for them.

[00:22:25] So it was a really powerful kind of selling point. We went down the side, I got hundreds of leads. It was in crazy.

[00:22:31] Kris Ward: Yeah, it’s palpable on a lot of levels because we’ve all, I mean, okay. The world’s a little bit in a hiccup right now, but we’ve all been to these trade shows where you’re standing in line.

[00:22:39] You don’t really know anybody. You’re just bored. And you know, my first defense again, would be like, Oh, I don’t want to bother people and all this other stuff, but you know, once you wrap your head around that, and you’re not, then also like that whole PR angle where you just interviewed 300 people, man, if you try to organize that any other way, that would be labor intensive, actually expensive, sending out this, getting the results back.

[00:22:59] But you just like, did a really amazing, not only a PR thing, but a research thing that would have taken so much more organization and input and labor intensive. So you really kind of got a lot of juice out of that orange,

[00:23:14] Vince Warnock: right. And one of my favorite moments ever. So I joined the team at Cigna. And so I was with Cigna for four years before doing what I’m doing now.

[00:23:23] Um, and one of my favorite moments was the CFO moment. It was when I went into our CFO and said to him, Look, we’ve just conducted this research and we’ve got this feedback from, I think we had around, uh, 20 or 30 people, but really good qualitative feedback. And he was like, ah, okay, how much did that cost?

[00:23:40] And I said, $84. And the look on his face was priceless. He was just like, you’re a jerk then. So yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yes. And this was the beauty of it as well. There’s so many different things you can do with these methodologies. Like I said, you can do the survey things with B2B. You can validate your idea. Like they’re very early stage.

[00:23:59] You can also test and centers and tests, things like that, where you can get in front of people. You can literally have like, I’m holding up my hands. I realize there’s a pocket you literally have, which is have different incentives than they can get people to tell you. Just describe what they’re seeing there.

[00:24:15] And you’re actually, you’re more interested in how excited they get about various different ones. So you can attest in which one’s resonating with them. But one of the most powerful things we did is. We with insurance. It is, it’s like marketing, it’s riddled with terminology that people don’t understand.

[00:24:31] Um, we, you know, the, the problem with marketing is our audience. It isn’t marketers, same thing with insurance. Our audience are not insurance. So there was a pile of jargon and things that people really didn’t understand, which made it overly complex for something they were committing to particularly life insurance, where they’re never going to see the benefit of it personally, or very rarely see the benefit of

[00:24:50] Kris Ward: that hope.

[00:24:50] They don’t like this. You know what I mean? Like, yeah.

[00:24:53] Vince Warnock: So, so I wanted to test that we wanted to remove as much of the gobbledygook as we could from the policy documents. We wanted to put them in plain English. So we went through a process called right Mac, which is like a writing standard for an insurance and for legal terms and things to make sure it’s in plain English.

[00:25:11] So we went through that process. That was great. We rewrote our policy documents on that. But we didn’t want to stop there. We actually wanted to test them further. So we took aspects of the policy document. We wouldn’t take the whole thing down because they’d take forever, but we took just a couple of paragraphs there where we weren’t really sure on.

[00:25:27] And what we would do is we do the coffee line test, but we put this in front of people and say, can you read this. And then tell me what it means and get them. You could translate it in their own words. And one of the things that really surprised us was one of the terms that we thought was, a generic term that everyone understood, which was, premiums.

[00:25:46] So paying your premiums. Yeah. Um, Mo the majority, particularly of the younger people, anyone under the age of 25, really didn’t understand what they, it was, they were like, premiums are, that means it’s a really good quality policy. It means you’re paying your. Oh, so the penny dropped for us that we need to change that term.

[00:26:03] So there’s so many different things that you can test around this and the feedback you can get as really valuable.

[00:26:07] Kris Ward: Wow. That is insightful. All right. I mean, Oh my gosh. I’m just sitting. I’m not contributing much here at all. I’m just sitting here and going. Oh

[00:26:14] Vince Warnock: yeah. Wow.

[00:26:17] Kris Ward: Um, okay, so we’ve got a few minutes left.

[00:26:19] What would be the last thing you’d want to tell us now that you’ve opened our eyes and made me see the world very differently? Um,

[00:26:25] Vince Warnock: I, I think the last thing is just to reinforce. How important, whether it’s coffee line tears. So however you don’t, but accordance of actually directly listening to your customers.

[00:26:34] It does, particularly as entrepreneurs, it does a few things. Number one, it does provide us with language. It actually it’s the best resource for understanding how to market to people. Cause they’re telling you how to market to them. But the other thing too, is it reinforces why we’re doing what we’re doing.

[00:26:49] And one of the most powerful things to me, if I’m ever having a bad day. So as entrepreneurs, we all have bad days, we have those days where you wake up and you’re like, Oh crap, why am I doing this? What do I think I’m doing this? Isn’t this is nuts.

[00:27:00] Kris Ward: I had super powers yesterday and today I have none. Yeah,

[00:27:03] Vince Warnock: exactly.

[00:27:04] There’s kryptonite everywhere. So one of the best things you can do in those moments is talk to a customer and just reach out check in with them and saying, Hey, just checking in to see how things are going. It speaks volumes to your customers. But the other thing is that it does is it reminds us why we get out of bed every day, why we’re doing what we’re doing. It reminds you of the value that you’re adding to your customers.

[00:27:22] And by the way, if you’re not adding value to your customers, who seriously question why you’re doing what you’re doing.

[00:27:32] Vince Warnock: It’s vitally important to ensure that we’re consistently in front of them. And it really does test our kind of bias as well. Like we’ve seen we’re our own worst enemy in that as marketers, we treat them somebody like a marketer. This reminds us, we’re talking to normal human beings who don’t think like we do who don’t see the world in the same way that we do. And we’ve got to change our thinking to align with this.

[00:27:58] Kris Ward: Fabulous. Well, Vince, we’re so lucky to have you here. Where can people reach you now that we’ve all been wowed by your wisdom? Where can they find you?

[00:28:05] Vince Warnock: Uh, look, probably the easiest way actually is chasing the And so I am just launching my podcast. Um, so I’ve got some amazing speakers on there, including this very, very talented, uh, author of when the hour, when the day.

[00:28:19] And so you can check that out on there and also there’s links on there to things that we’re working on at the moment, such as, um, a virtual summit, which is coming up. So yeah, chasing the best way to get ahold of me.

[00:28:30] Kris Ward: Fabulous. We will do that. And thank you again so much. It’s been awesome. We really appreciate your time and your energy.

[00:28:35] Thank you.

[00:28:36] Vince Warnock: Oh, Chris, it’s always a pleasure catching up with you.

[00:28:39] Kris Ward: Thanks.