Master Your Personal Brand: From Authenticity to Thought Leadership! with Daniel Brenneman

You can find Daniel Brenneman at:
Website: https://www.danielbrenneman.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielbrenneman/

#PersonalBranding
#AuthenticLeadership
#KrisWard

Daniel Brenneman

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day and I am your host, Kris Ward. And today in the house, we have Daniel Brenneman. Now Daniel is a personal branding consultant and he’s here to talk to us about personal branding.

[00:00:13] But before we dive into that, I must say you come at it from a different perspective because I think Daniel, first of all, welcome to the show, Daniel. 

[00:00:22] Daniel Brenneman: Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. 

[00:00:24] Kris Ward: Okay. I think sometimes personal branding it’s just it can be very wishy washy with not a lot of clarity.

[00:00:30] Okay. It’s almost what do you think I’m doing? I’m being me and I’m out there. And so I’m doing personal branding. Am I not right? So I think it gets. I think it gets messed up or missed out on without any great clarity. A lot of the time. 

[00:00:45] That’s my first instinct. 

[00:00:47] Daniel Brenneman: I totally agree with that.

[00:00:49] I also think there is a massive amount of ambiguity around what it actually is and what the benefit is because a lot of people teach it from the tactical level and not the practical level. 

[00:00:59] Kris Ward: Okay. [00:01:00] We’ll do go on. 

[00:01:01] Daniel Brenneman: Okay. Okay. So a lot of people are going to, or that I hear talk about personal branding. We’ll talk about something platform specific.

[00:01:08] I’ll go on LinkedIn. You need to find your ideal audience. You need to run down these lists, have this post format, do the, all this. And there’s no excavation, no exploration of who the person is. So what ends up happening is people will execute tactics and become something that isn’t in alignment with who they are.

[00:01:27] And that creates a disconnect that will ultimately lead in burnout because it’s not a sustainable thing. 

[00:01:34] Kris Ward: Yeah, I’ve said this a hundred times, I’m sure on this show where you get seduced into thinking like if you walk into any sort of culture or place, there are habits or rituals or whatever. Like you’re not going to show up at the gym wearing a dress and it’s not just cause that’s not practical.

[00:01:51] It’s nobody else is doing that there. So I think many years ago when I started getting more assertive on LinkedIn, at first it was like, Oh, I should be more polished and [00:02:00] more professional. So I was trying to downplay. What people describe as my high energy. Cause I thought that came off juvenile because I’m thinking that’s the platform and I have to look more grown up.

[00:02:10] And one of the things that you talk about is excavating your personal brand versus fabricating. And I struggle with the word authentic. Cause I always find that kind of insulting. Nobody, I don’t, I never meant I wouldn’t get up to be inauthentic. I don’t jump up and nobody jumps up this morning and says, let’s be inauthentic.

[00:02:29] But you get tricked into what is the version of you or what version of you is supposed to be there that day, like obviously, I don’t know if you’re hanging out with your friends in the gym or going to visit your grandparents, they’re different versions of you. But I think that gets really lost really quickly and gets very muddled.

[00:02:47] And then someone like you comes on and says, I’ll help you with your personal brand. You’re like I should know who I am by this point in my life. So it just gets all messy really quick. 

[00:02:54] Daniel Brenneman: It does. It really does. The way I think about this is through the lens of connection [00:03:00] to me. Brand is meant to connect.

[00:03:01] So how am I connecting to the people or person I’m speaking to in this moment? And so when I show up on a platform like linkedin, I show up on platform like instagram, like TikTok. I consider what my values are, what my experiences are and what my frustrations are and convey those, and it will be, I can be saying the same thing.

[00:03:27] In three different ways based on those audiences. And so I always look through that lens. I believe, first off, I will say, I believe that you attract who you are. And that’s one of the unique ways that I teach finding your audience. A lot of people are going to say, find your ideal your ideal client that in a way that who, who seeing who resonates or who responds, whatever.

[00:03:48] And I say, If you find out who you are and understand through the three things of values, experiences, and frustrations, then those are going to be the people that naturally [00:04:00] resonate with you already. And so when you do that’s how you start to understand that the personal brand can be this teaching the same thing, communicating the same thing, but your context and the way you communicate it, can that be different.

[00:04:14] Kris Ward: I think you brought up a really good point. That frustration part I know for me is I always see that as a character flaw and a weakness. So you think, Oh, I’m impatient or I’m this or I’m that. And so I tried to suppress the part that gets frustrated. Cause I think obviously I have work to do there.

[00:04:29] And there was a time way back in the beginning of my business where, there’s one group of people that like, that I, they say, Oh, you just say what you mean. You mean the same, you’re clear, you’re concise, you’re boom. And then the next I would deal with another client who needed more flowery dialogue from me.

[00:04:44] They’d be find me a little bit harsh and I think the kindest thing you can give somebody is the truth. And they, I’d be like, Oh my gosh, okay. I offended them. So then I would be going and changing my style because I took it as a personal flaw. Like I don’t mean, I would never want to hurt somebody’s feelings.

[00:04:58] I was just giving [00:05:00] them clear direction. And then I would go back to my people and they’d be like, Kris, we love when you’re clear. And to the point, why are you wasting all this time? Dancing around this, like being flowery, get to it. What, why have you changed? And you’re like, Oh my gosh, back and forth.

[00:05:13] And I’m making myself dizzy, but I thought the version of Kris that I could, and you’re right. My best clients. And the only ones I take now are very much like me and we really relate to each other, but I was trying to work on me and thought that part of me was, The part I don’t know why I think I’m supposed to be human wandering the earth that I don’t get frustrated, but I always thought, Oh, that’s a character flaw.

[00:05:35] So I have to fix that. And it wasn’t allowing myself to resonate with the people that would roll their eyes at the same thing. 

[00:05:42] Daniel Brenneman: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And it’s so interesting because I think you and I both resonate on this level of boring business isn’t meant to be boring, but it’s supposed to be fun, exciting, high energy.

[00:05:53] And when we connect over that. And and I think that’s honestly one of the things that related us to each other and got [00:06:00] our conversations going a lot, but I, this is a build upon that idea. I think that there are levels of attraction that you have to graduate through as well. And I, so if I start at frustrations, if it always stays at the level of frustration, once one of us solve that frustration or move on to another one, we will lose the connection.

[00:06:21] So I think there that things can start at the level of frustration, but they have to ascend to the level of values because values are the, are really the thing that transcends. All else that if we see the world, similarly, we believe the same things about people, about the environments around us, then we will be in common unity, community, common unity, moving forward in a singular direction.

[00:06:46] And so I love the idea of grasping on the frustration, but I also wanted to build that context out as well, because I think if we’re building out a totem pole, that’s probably the lowest on that tier as well. 

[00:06:57] Kris Ward: Yeah. And I agree also by nature, I’m a [00:07:00] positive person and I enjoy being positive. I don’t like the yucky feeling of being negative or frustrated.

[00:07:05] Like I do everything I can to be purposeful with my energy. My point was that I thought the frustrating part was to be totally ignored because it was a character flaw. So I definitely think that we don’t want to be building a relationship on our frustrations because that’s just griping and complaining.

[00:07:23] I have no, that’s not long term. I have no interest in that. But even if our frustration is I get frustrated with myself or I have to learn to slow down or I move too quickly and I, whatever, it’s not about my frustration with the world. But even that, I just never something I would have included in the conversation because I wouldn’t thought, Oh, that’s fix yourself, you flawed. And so I agree with you is get to the values, but in the recipe, I would have never included frustration. 

[00:07:51] Daniel Brenneman: Yeah. It’s what is it? What’s really interesting is hit. I stumbled onto this of that. I [00:08:00] realized that the things that I do with other people are often to solve problems.

[00:08:04] When I am coming together with others, I’m solving a problem and those problems stem from frustrations that we have in common areas. And I was like, Oh, you know what? There is a piece of missionality that has that frustration is wrapped up in because we are all frustrated in a positive way of wanting to create change.

[00:08:25] And so that was really the origin of where that piece of it came into play. 

[00:08:30] Kris Ward: Yeah. And why I love that language you use, excavating versus fabricating, because it’s okay, here I am. So let’s dig down and get the stuff. And the frustrating part, can be a also really positive thing. Like whenever I’m working with Evan, who’s on my team, and if we have some tech issue, I am pretty tech savvy, but Evan is way smarter than me.

[00:08:50] So if I’m having a problem with a program or something. He’ll hop on zoom with me because he can just take over the remote. Cause after he says twice, okay, hit that button to the left. No, the other, I’m like, okay, I’m out. [00:09:00] You’re lost me. I’m done. It’s irritating me. And so to my clients, I always say to them, if you’re dealing with some sort of software, once you’re past five minutes, I know how frustrating that is.

[00:09:11] Just reach out. Evan will hop on a call with you and he can usually fix it and he can take over the controls. Even though it’s not even what we do. We’re not a tech company. I just know to get to the important work, you can’t erode your battery in your brain by getting frustrated on tech. So that frustration has allowed me to put a problem solving technique in there.

[00:09:30] But again, before you, I would have just thought, Oh, what we need to do is not put solutions in for the frustration is for you, Kris, not to have frustrations, right? So I, I think that’s why you’re excavating language really is different than what I’ve seen out there. Hey. It’s almost like a big oops.

[00:09:48] Sorry. It’s almost like a big stone when people chisel away and make a Statue out of a stone it’s in there. Let’s just chisel it and get to it 

[00:09:58] Daniel Brenneman: Oh for sure [00:10:00] And I love that excavating language because I believe that the personal brand the remarkably unique personal brand that everyone possesses is found in your experiences your skill sets your perspectives that you’ve developed through life You I have, I’ve talked to many people where I’ll just ask them their stories.

[00:10:18] One of my, Oh man, Kris is one of my favorite things to ask people is their story because number one, I get to hear what really made them who they are, but number two, how they process that story. And I have met so many people that I’ll listen to that story and be like, Oh, you make so much more sense to me.

[00:10:34] Now you felt dumb. In this instance, and now your mission is to help people not feel dumb. Oh, that, that makes so much more sense. And when I start excavating that language and saying, Hey, that, that, have you ever like really wrestled with the tension of that, they’ll look at me and be like, I’ve never considered that side of it.

[00:10:56] I’ve never really thought about the connection between this [00:11:00] experience I had in high school and the way I teach now, 20 years later. And when you start to consider those connections and then the skill sets you’ve developed in 20 years, the perspectives you’ve had from the relationships that you’ve had around you, you start to really understand there is a unique set.

[00:11:19] Of remarkability inside you that no one else possesses. And that’s why I love personal brand because I am helping people bring out something in them that no one else has, and everyone has it in them. And it allows them to build on a business and something on that. 

[00:11:39] Kris Ward: Yeah, and I think to your point, you say know yourself and then know your audience and I find it almost dismissive when you see that online all the time like okay No, who like know where your audience is and then go talk to them.

[00:11:50] Yeah, isn’t that dynamic and simple? What the heck is that? How is that a solution right? But I think with you, you’re saying, okay, know who you are. And then you’ll attract people who [00:12:00] are like you and you’re right. We like, those are the best people. I, some one turning point in my business. I’m like, listen, if I couldn’t go and have a two hour lunch with one of my clients, I’m not having them as a client.

[00:12:11] And they turned out to be a lot like me or they’re like, Oh, Kris, you get me so much, we’re so much alike or whatever. And those are the people that you do best with in life is that you have commonalities with. So this idea, I think personal branding up, up, up till recently of what I hear other people saying is it’s almost like there’s a sea and ocean out there and you have to go find your little school of fish.

[00:12:33] And it’s very overwhelming. If I knew it, of course, if I knew where my people were, I would go and pitch them, but I don’t know where they are. But when you say no yourself, And you’re going to find people like you. Okay. At least I have a hope. I’ve got a fighting chance now. I know me. 

[00:12:47] Daniel Brenneman: Yes.

[00:12:48] Kris Ward: And then let’s see who I get on with kind of deal. 

[00:12:51] Daniel Brenneman: Yes. 1000%. Yes. I, that is, is it much more of a pull rather than a push? I think that there is a [00:13:00] lot of push to go find your people, go get, find that school of fish, go find the right pond. Okay. And there is just this level of when you allow the pool to occur and really understand what it is that’s pulling that you’re able to just move in a way that’s different because the thing that people don’t talk about enough, in my opinion, is that push drains you.

[00:13:26] If you are pushing against your natural proclivities, you are going to, it feels like you’re running at a hundred miles an hour and you’re running 10, but the flip side is true. Also that when you’re in alignment and you’re in that pool method, you feel like you’re running at 10 miles an hour and you’re running at a hundred.

[00:13:44] And again, like that’s why I believe so much. In that personal branding side. 

[00:13:50] Kris Ward: Yeah. And I think it reminds me of those old cowboy movies where it’s almost like they’re shooting to make you dance. Like you’re dancing as fast as you can thinking when I’m dealing with the clients [00:14:00] that don’t appreciate my directness and they want me to be more flowery and changed.

[00:14:03] And again, you’re just beating yourself up more going, okay, I’m trying to be a better person. And I’m trying to be, say all these words, extra words that they I don’t know what they are. And this seems crazy. So you’re dancing like a crazy person, like a puppet. And then on the other hand, instead of going and finding your audience, at least you have some information.

[00:14:23] ’cause I know, my values, my frustrations, or my likes or dislikes. So then I have some information versus going into the sea of ocean where I have no information. I don’t know what I’m looking for. So your way, at least we have some inventory, some content to start with. 

[00:14:40] Daniel Brenneman: Yeah. Yeah. And I love that analogy of dancing on the dance floor instead of dancing in front of Cowboys.

[00:14:46] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:14:47] Daniel Brenneman: That is such a perfect analogy because one is natural. One is exhausting and that, that to me is the perfect dichotomy of what people face when building that personal brand. [00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] Kris Ward: Okay. So when we talk about, you also talk about your promise with the personal brand. And so that, I guess I almost call this a little bit like business therapy.

[00:15:09] We’re getting to know ourselves A little bit. And even, especially when you’re new at business or even when you get to the five and ten year mark, you’re just constantly changing and evolving and nothing will make you change and evolve like having your own business. So it really is hard work, but you have to get to know yourself and figure it out fast and furious and stop, I guess I would say blaming yourself or beating yourself up and saying, here’s what I got and this is what I have to work with.

[00:15:33] Daniel Brenneman: Yes. All. One hundred percent. I totally agree.

[00:15:36] Kris Ward: Just really makes such a difference with business therapy, figuring out who you are, that there is nothing like a jaw, like nothing, like having your own business to what you have to stop doing is beating yourself up and figuring out this is who I am.

[00:15:49] Daniel Brenneman: Yo, absolutely. And you’re talking about promise. That’s what it was. There it is. There it is. I think that your promise really, as I teach it is what can people expect from you? What is it? [00:16:00] And that what you’re saying, I think that evolves it, that you change as your values are going to stay the same, but your experiences change, your frustrations change.

[00:16:10] And that promise can change as you learn to serve new people, as new people, different people resonate with your message and you start to evolve that promise changes. And I think that’s why the introspection, the excavation. It’s so important because in learning the process of doing that, because it’s not just doing it once and forgetting it, like to your point, it is a continuous effort that you’re trying to do, trying to figure out of, am I still in alignment with this promise?

[00:16:39] Am I, are people still, am I still delivering on this? Are people still getting this from me every time they interact with me? Or is, has it gone beyond that now? 

[00:16:50] Kris Ward: Yeah, and I think from what I’m understanding from what you’re saying, too, is that it’s a constant evolving process that personal branding isn’t something we jump up and craft when we start a [00:17:00] business and we excavate it and we’re constantly us and the business is evolving.

[00:17:04] So we have to keep taking a look at that. 

[00:17:07] Daniel Brenneman: Yep. I think of it as as building blocks. So if I were to tell you to build a tower out of building blocks. And you start stacking them in a staggered pattern, you’re not gonna be able to get very high. That’s gonna come falling down eventually. But if I help you build the foundation, and we build six wide by six deep, and then we stack another layer five wide by five deep, and then four wide by four deep, it doesn’t matter what we build on top of that, because it will support everything.

[00:17:34] So if we establish that foundation and get those values understand our story in relation to who we are and really the unique thing that has allowed us to bring into the world, what we’re bringing into the world, then we can stack that evolution on top because the, like I said, that, that’s, that, that foundational stuff doesn’t change.

[00:17:52] It’s everything beyond that, that can possibly change. And so 

[00:17:56] Kris Ward: that’s a good point. 

[00:17:56] Daniel Brenneman: We established those foundations. We can build that tower, [00:18:00] however we need to in whatever season we’re in. 

[00:18:02] Kris Ward: Yeah, that’s a good point. And so again, understanding ourselves and then evolving from that, tweaking that versus going out and trying to craft it, that is a really good point.

[00:18:13] All right. Okay. What are some other things that you think people miss when we constantly hear about personal branding? 

[00:18:21] Daniel Brenneman: I think people chase a lot. 

[00:18:23] Kris Ward: No, that’s a good point.

[00:18:24] Daniel Brenneman: Yeah. I think people are often chasing that. They’ll look at trends. They’ll look at what other people are doing, what they play the comparison game, and they’ll start to listen to that inner critic of I’m not seeing the results on that.

[00:18:37] And that is one of the things that I think the excavation process. Really? Why? It’s because people can attack your knowledge sets. People can attack your perspectives, but they can’t attack your experiences. And when you start to draw from your experiences and tell those stories and [00:19:00] start to really give context of why you believe what you believe and what it is, then proper conversation occurs.

[00:19:07] Then proper attraction occurs. And I think there are so many people that are trying to build based on what they see, not based on what they know. And that to me is one of just the crux, the really like Achilles heels of personal brand and the way a lot of people are going about it these days 

[00:19:29] Kris Ward: That is a really good point because we only look out right?

[00:19:32] We walk into a room and look around and see what’s here and it’s okay these are the successful people so then how you almost pick a character in a video game, which one can I be the closest to? I can’t be a I personally can’t be a 60 year old man. So maybe I’ll pick this person over here and you’re just aligning yourself with a caricature and not looking at, you’re right.

[00:19:52] I am a unique person with my experiences. So these experiences have to form something and start from here. This is the [00:20:00] starting point. Not taking a look like I’m shopping, like I’m building a business as if I am building a bricks and mortar and I’m building the business just on materials, not on from my experience.

[00:20:11] Daniel Brenneman: Yeah. Absolutely. 

[00:20:12] Kris Ward: That is a really good point. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. There you go. I’m here to help. Okay. So what is really truly the dream outcome here? We’re building solutions, and what do you see as the dream outcome for Wendy? Should you feel a little bit good about your personal brand? When do you feel like there’s a disconnect?

[00:20:33] When do you know that you have a problem? What are some of the warning signs for success or struggles? 

[00:20:38] Daniel Brenneman: I think resonance. I think signal. I think I always have people listen for signal is so I even in the excavation process, I say, look, listen for signal because you will often find people look at you will say, Hey, how did you do that?

[00:20:55] That was really good. And internally, you’re saying it was easy. Everyone can do [00:21:00] that. Or Hey, that was, That you’ve got this thing about you. Have you ever tried this? And when you start to listen to that signal and understand the way other people are seeing you, that you have a mirror that is reflecting back to you, who you are.

[00:21:13] And so I think. When you hear that and you start to see that and then start to see people resonate with that, you start to see some, again, signal some resonance that there is something there that people are responding, that conversations are occurring, that often the, one of the most fun things I see occur is when people say, I don’t know what it is.

[00:21:38] I just love your vibe because that means there is a resonance beyond words that is occurring, that there is a resonance deep in their soul. That is I am so in line with this idea, this set of values that I am here with you. And when you discover that. It [00:22:00] starts to give you a great level of confidence because again, the inner critic can’t take that feeling away.

[00:22:07] The inner critic is someone criticizing you. Isn’t going to talk you out of this connection that has occurred. And when you begin to gain that confidence, you begin to build outward. One of the best examples I have of this, I was when I first started posting on LinkedIn, I was like, number one, there is no way you’re going to get me on video.

[00:22:25] I belong behind the camera. I’m a creative. That’s what I do. And number two, you ain’t gonna catch me taking those selfies and dah. And I was on a couple of calls and about the second one in the person looks at me and said, How much video are you doing? I was like, Oh, none. And they’re like, yeah, you have a personality that demands video.

[00:22:46] And I was like, okay. Someone else said it the next call. And I was like, 

[00:22:50] yeah. I guess we’re trying video and it wasn’t something that’s core to me. It’s something that I was able to stack on top of that foundation of values and experience all that. [00:23:00] And so as I began to develop that, I began to see resonance.

[00:23:03] And I’m like, okay, my message is resonating. All right. People are enjoying seeing my face. Maybe if I write a text post, I take a selfie, something that is emotionally appropriate, irrelevant to the post, maybe, and there’s more resonance. And so now, because I understood the foundation of who I was and my message that I was giving, then I was able to stack tactics on top of that and start to build a different.

[00:23:28] Yeah. 

[00:23:32] Kris Ward: And I think we have to, I feel like I have to keep driving that point home cause I know I missed it a lot in the beginning is you’re not looking at building something external. You are building a business online and your personality is a big part of that, right? So it’s not crafting a new business.

[00:23:48] It’s being you in that business. And I, I remember when I started doing, I wrote my book and I started doing guest podcasts Number of people told me I should have my own show and I was like, Oh, that’s so nice. They’re being nice to me. Like they’re saying [00:24:00] nice things. And then it was probably the 10th person.

[00:24:02] I’m like, okay, why do I need to have my own show? Tell me again. So you do have to listen. Cause at first you can be It’s so funny. We can be dismissive of the compliments and yet you’ve just your gut rots when somebody gives you feedback that you’re like, Oh, that hurt. So really, truly, as you say, looking for the signals or hearing, or even me understanding that when people say, Oh, I love your energy.

[00:24:22] I didn’t even know what that meant in the beginning. I was like, Oh, is it slipping out? I’m should be more professional, whatever. So you are who you are. Start from there and then we’re going to build that out instead of looking externally across the room as if you’re building something over there that has nothing to do with you.

[00:24:39] Daniel Brenneman: And I do want to take a moment to caveat personal brands were meant to Build businesses and make money. So that part of it cannot be ignored. I know I’ve talked a lot about the more wishy washy side of that and the excavation and looking internally, however, it’s meant to make money.

[00:24:57] And so once you figure out what that [00:25:00] is inside of you, that brain, you can build. You have to understand that you, there is signal from a business standpoint that you have to produce as well. Yeah. And so what I think is helpful on the business side of it when you understand your personal brand is I am not pivoting to different businesses from one to the next.

[00:25:19] Trying to figure out what it is. It’s I know what in, what’s inside of me, what I have to bring to the world. It’s what iteration of this does the world need? And most desire and will it be willing to pay for so I can execute marketing. I can teach marketing. I can coach it. I can have a community about it and which one now I can figure out which one aligns best with my personality, with my approach, but so there, there is that caveat as well from the, how do you understand the success of the personal brand side that there is a business outcome that is tied to it as well.

[00:25:52] Kris Ward: Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. We’re not doing this for the like, just to be popular. Okay. Where, Daniel, can we find more of [00:26:00] your brilliance? 

[00:26:01] Daniel Brenneman: You can find me on LinkedIn. I’m posting there five days a week, every weekday there. And then danielbrenneman. com, you can find, check out everything there, tell a little bit of my story on there, actually have a fun little Easter egg on the on the website.

[00:26:14] So if you find that, be sure to hit that link and check that out. But yeah, those are the two main areas. 

[00:26:21] Kris Ward: Okay. Awesome. We will make sure to have all that in the show notes for sure. 

[00:26:25] And a thoughtful conversation about personal branding. I think we just don’t dive deep into it enough. So thank you again, Daniel.

[00:26:31] And make sure you share this podcast with a business, but he don’t have them banging around out there by themselves and everyone else. Thank you again, Daniel and everyone else. We will see you in the next episode. Thanks so much. 

[00:26:42] Daniel Brenneman: Appreciate you. 

[00:26:43] Kris Ward: No problem.