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Hayden Cashion Podcast Transcription
[00:23:25] Kris Ward: Okay, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day. I am your host Kris Ward, and today we have something special. You know, I only bring you the best of the best. All right, we are going to talk to Hayden Cashion. Now listen, if you’ve not been on TikTok then you do not know who this guy is.
[00:23:42] And I would tell you right after you listen to the show you want to hop on over this and hold on, hold on. If you think TikTok is not for you, let me tell you, I’m going to introduce you to like a whole new world. It is happening and there’s exciting things happening there. Now, Hayden, I’m going to walk him to the show, but then I want to talk about you for another whole minute. Like you’re not here. Welcome to the show.
[00:24:03]Hayden Cashion: Thank you so much. You just won the award for best opening that I’ve ever had in my life for sure. And the fact that you’re going to keep going, I’m so excited to see what happens.
[00:24:14]Kris Ward: I haven’t even started. Okay. I have to say, listen, I am like a podcast junkie. I love to consume content.
[00:24:21] I have been blessed by having some spectacular guests and I’m just always about eating up anything that’s about the machinery of business. And I have to tell you, you probably what I would call are the king of content. I have never seen anybody deliver such high level, consistent, tangible, impactful takeaways like you do in every single TikTok video, whether it’s 30 seconds or two minutes, it’s phenomenal.
[00:24:50]Hayden Cashion: Thank you so much. That’s a massive compliment. The goal of my TikTok is to make myself a thought leader in the marketing space. So it’s very important that what I put out on TikTok was my own original thoughts or something that I’ve read and have a comment on or something like that. So the fact that you just said that is a massive compliment because that’s the goal I’m trying to accomplish. So thank you so much.
[00:25:10]Kris Ward: Yeah, well, you’re rocking it. Okay. All right. I’m just going to let you start the show. I will tell you that I was on TikTok way back in the beginning. And I was there like, I dunno, 30 seconds and said, I’m not dancing I’m out of here. And then I got lured back by somebody else about six weeks ago.
[00:25:27] And it really truly has been life-changing. For me, it’s like, I don’t know. It’s like I saw this show once it was like a comedy and the little rich girl went underground and found out that there was this whole subway world. Like, did you know there’s trains and people? So there’s this whole life underneath the rock that is not only is it I think a really impressive platform.
[00:25:51] I think it really changed how I see how I produce my own content now. Like it changed. And I would also say that I now learn more about LinkedIn on TikTok than I would’ve ever learned on LinkedIn.
[00:26:05]Hayden Cashion: Very interesting. TikTok is so powerful because it’s the first platform in my opinion that is consumer centric.
[00:26:14] It doesn’t matter what a consumer’s done in the past. In other words, if they followed you, the app doesn’t care, the app just wants the consumer to have the best experience possible. How does that do that? It measures every single piece of content uniquely and only allows it to be shown to users if it’s worthy of being viewed.
[00:26:32] And that’s why the users love it. And that’s kind of why the creators love it too, because if we do produce great content, we do get the rewards regardless of our follow count.
[00:26:41]Kris Ward: Yeah. And when I first hopped back on, of course the algorithms did know me or what I was looking for. And so, you know, again, I would encourage you all listening to say, like give it a week.
Cause I started scrolling and then I had to key in, okay, I’m looking for business type people, excuse me. And once I started finding that and then liking and commenting and watching the full videos, now it’s this beautiful resource and pond of wealth of knowledge for me that my feed is all about really high quality content.
[00:27:10] So don’t get discouraged if you hop on there and you’re like, oh, this is for funny stuff or jokes or whatever. So yeah. I want to stop talking because man oh man, can you deliver, why don’t you tell us about, I don’t know, the biggest mistakes made on the platform. What do we need to know? Why should we all be there? You’re just the guy with content. Throw it at us.
[00:27:30]Hayden Cashion: I’ll quickly go back to actually what you just said about you interact a little bit with the platform and all of a sudden it becomes curated, from let’s say Facebook and Instagram, same company. So Facebook and Instagram, when you interact with something, they store that and their bank of like things that you like, but they don’t let it go.
[00:27:48] And I know this because I’m an advertiser. And when I go to target people based on their interests, I get a lot of people that are no longer actually interested in that. And for instance, if you’re on Facebook or Instagram and you can click, why am I seeing this ad and then click something else? And they’ll actually show you all the things you’re categorized as, and you’ll be shocked.
[00:28:04] The amount of things you’re categorized as completely irrelevant. Like, it’ll just be like, oh, I love pop music. And it may be, cause I watched one video that had pop music in it before and now I’m categorized as that. Now advertisers advertise me because they think I like that. TikTok I saw an interesting graph where it was, they did an experiment fresh account and I forget what type of content they liked, but they essentially just kept swiping unless it was a specific type of content, then they’d consume it, like it engage with it.
[00:28:31] And what they noticed was like, it was a sharp change into their feed very quickly of like it all of a sudden became all about that content and then they stopped interacting with it and it trickled down probably over three or four day period. And so that just shows that TikTok’s not interested on what you liked seven weeks ago.
It’s interested in what you like right now. And that’s another reason why it’s so consumer centric.
CUT[00:28:56]Kris Ward: And a big thing. I don’t know if everyone knows, but I started noticing even before I went back on the platform is things were coming up in Google search, like, oh, that’s interesting. Like if I search something, even a recipe was coming up from TikTok and my Google search. That’s a big thing too. Is that it’s searchable by Google.
[00:29:10]Is that true? I didn’t even know that.
Oh, well that’s what I’m seeing on my feed. Yeah. I’m seeing things come up all the time in Google searches that they’re TikTok videos. Yeah. Good question though. Is that true? I don’t know Josh, but if it’s not true, you know, it’s not, I just said that I could be wrong.
[00:29:32] I could be wrong, but asking me if it’s true. It’s true to my there’s. You’re searching on Google is showing up on your tick-tock or what you’re watching on Tik TOK is on. No, I’m starting to find, let me, so I could have this totally wrong. So what I’m finding is there are things that now would come up in my Google search.
[00:29:49] Like let’s say I was just looking for a recipe. All of a sudden I would get in recipe. Like here’s a Google recipe, here’s a Google recipe. And then Tik TOK will come up with a recipe. Oh, it’s in your search is one of my options. Yeah. Interesting. I wonder, I wonder why that happens, but that, it makes a lot of sense.
[00:30:08] Like if it’s like a good place for people to go and find what they’re interested in and get value out of it, maybe Google is looking at that from an SEO standpoint because obviously they’re different companies. So I don’t think that it would like purposely put it there unless it had earned its way to the top. [00:30:23]END CUT
[00:30:24]Kris Ward: Right. Okay. Fabulous. All right. So what are the mistakes? What do we need to know? What do we not know? You know, all that kind of stuff.
[00:30:29]Hayden Cashion: Yeah. I think the number one thing that I give people, if this is the first video is you need to look at it like an artist finding their voice. On your first song.
[00:30:40] You don’t know who you’re going to sound like. You don’t know what’s going to happen. You’re most likely sound like your inspirations. And as you make more music, as you have more reps in the studio, you’ll find your voice. And so it’s not about, okay, what are we going to do right off the bat? It’s kind of about like, okay, what do we think could work?
[00:30:55] Let’s just start doing it. Let’s start throwing out content. And then based on what we’re seeing, not just what the market likes, but even me, I like to look at my feed and be like, oh, I like how we shot that video. Oh, I like what I said there, I want to be more of this. I want to be more of this person. I don’t really care what other people want.
[00:31:11] I just want to create what I want to create. And so I think that’s the actual advice is like go in with a base strategy, but expect it in 60 days, 30 days, however quickly you’re posting to really evolve and really find your own sound for lack of a better term.
[00:31:26]Kris Ward: Yeah, I think you’re right, because what I find is I find it a very forgiving platform and that it’s really evolving and it’s a little bit more raw.
[00:31:33] So you don’t have to, I know the, some of the mistakes I made in the beginning was I was thinking I was talking on YouTube and it was just not like, you know, it was more presenter thing. And what I found really helpful was when I do see a video like yours or something, and you can hit save, and then I just make categories like an idea or learn sometimes it’s TikTok tip you gave us.
[00:31:53] And so then I go back and learn it later, but I found it to be really, like eye opening on so many levels of seeing how other people did it, it improved by how I message on all platforms now, but I just saved them in different categories and go back and visit them for content ideas, not just visit them.
[00:32:13]Hayden Cashion: Yeah. And I think like TikTok, obviously we’ve never seen a platform like it even just aesthetically like full screen swipe videos. But I think, what it’s really doing is shaping the landscape right. Of the interest based algorithm, full thing. I dunno if you noticed on Instagram, but they just, you can click on the logo in the top left of Instagram now, and you can switch through feeds.
[00:32:36] So the feed that you’re actually on normally is essentially your home feed, but now it’s actually a dynamic feed of just random stuff a.k.a TikTok to a certain extent. And they’re putting a lot of reels in there. Cause what do they want to do? They want you to click on it and now be in reels, a.k.a TikTok with an Instagram.
[00:32:53] If you want to actually go see your followers in chronological order or see accounts that you’ve favorited, you have to click on the Instagram logo and select the different feet. Okay. This is something that they’ve done quite subtly, but it’s because of the growth of TikTok and also like how much the consumers like TikTok.
[00:33:09] They know that they have to adapt and they have to start to incorporate that. And we’re seeing that on all platforms like YouTube shorts, Facebook reels, Pinterest has a reels product. I wouldn’t be surprised if Twitter comes out with one. I don’t know what LinkedIn is going to do because LinkedIn is always weird.
[00:33:23] There’s so much stuff that LinkedIn should have done already that they haven’t really done much. So I don’t know if they’ll integrate a real feature, but I have seen some people say that there’s now a tab under certain videos where you can see your analytics a lot deeper on LinkedIn, which gives me kind of the hunch that they’re going to dive into content and really try to, you know, build a creator platform there, which I think they should, because LinkedIn is like such a one-on-one audience captive it’s people that are in the business, psychological mindset, right.
[00:33:52] And a career, psychological mindset. There’s no other platform like it. And quite frankly, it’s already at the scale that there probably won’t be another one like it. And so if they just developed that platform better, it could really become a beast.
[00:34:03]Kris Ward: I think what you’re saying and what I’ve been learning is that in theory TikTok is still the underdog, as far as the amount of years it’s been around.
But I think that they seem to be a thought leader and they’re the rising up like they seem to be leading the direction, even though they’re the last one to the game at this point. They seem to really master that.
[00:34:37]Hayden Cashion: A hundred percent. And if you think about it, like the same social platforms have been established for so long, like coming up and competing is quite impossible.
And so it had to be a remarkable product to actually be able to do that. And I don’t know the numbers, so I’m not even going to try to quote it. But from what I understand, TikTok is the leading platform now. And I had a call with someone today who was saying that he went back to his high school to give a talk and he was talking to great tens
[00:34:47] and Elevens, there’s only one kid in that class that was on Facebook, just because you wanted to talk to his parents. And there was no kids in that class, on LinkedIn, they were all on Instagram, Snapchat and TIkTok. Yes. Obviously Snapchat is not like a social channel, if that makes sense. That it’s very much one-to-one. But it’s how they prefer to communicate.
[00:35:11]Kris Ward: Okay. So we’re going to go in, we’re going to start liking stuff there. We’re going to TikTok, we’ll understand analytics and help us find our community. We’re not going to overthink the videos cause they’re short, they’re, one-off, they’re raw and that’s what the platform really likes.
So tell us some other things that you think would move us forward in a more effective manner.
[00:35:32]Hayden Cashion: Once again, I think on TikTok, you build what you want to build because the algorithm will bring the audience to you. Right. I think that’s the best way to look at it. And in the past, we just haven’t had algorithms that are like that the algorithms are so sensitive to the follow button and the organic reach diminishes over time because it respects the follow button right over time.
[00:35:53] Everyone tends to follow more people. And what does that do? It creates an obligation of the feed to show more people to you and you have to slot in ads. And that’s what diminishes the organic reach. But when you have a platform like TikTok, the organic reach won’t diminish at the rate other platforms have because it disrespects the follow button.
[00:36:11] Obviously there’s a protocol on there, but it means in my opinion, unless they make changes to it. But in its current state, the organic reach and quote unquote virality will always be there. What will actually happen is it will be more competitive to get it. Right. So instead of competing against two people for the organic reach, she’ll be competing each 10 people for the organic reach.
[00:36:32] That’s how I think the platform will evolve. But unlike Instagram, where it just died. Right. I always like to tell people before reels, did you ever hear anyone ever say I went viral on Instagram? It wasn’t, it wasn’t the thing that, wasn’t the thing you said because it respects the follow button and so by removing that variable, TikTok once again, it’s much more consumer centric in the sense of what we mentioned earlier, where it’s like if I follow someone on Facebook three years ago, or on Instagram three years ago, it doesn’t mean I’m still into it.
[00:37:01] Tiktoks very much about like, Kate, what do you like right now? I’m going to serve you that, and it has the “For you side” is for the following side as well. If you want to see who you follow. But as far as I know, you know, 99.9% is in the “For You Page”.
[00:37:15]Kris Ward: Yeah. And I think what you’re saying is that gets diluted then, like who I’m following.
If I have 10 people or who I’m following, if I have a thousand means like, you know, those thousand people don’t have the same commonality. So then my interests get diluted. So I think that is really powerful. And also you bring up a really good point point that I got confused about when I was first on the platform is that the rules of engagement are slightly different.
[00:37:37] So like, if I have on LinkedIn, you have to learn to clean your lists. Like, okay, I don’t serve realtors and stuff like that. That’s not a good match for me. So take those off if they got in there somehow. So then I went into TikTok and I was looking at who’s following me. And I was removing them because I thought, oh, they’re not my audience.
[00:37:55] And I didn’t realize no, no, no. It’s really about the consumption rate of the video. That’s the big thing, correct? You should always be checking it, nevermind all that stuff. But how many people are consuming your video? Like the full length of your video.
[00:38:11]Hayden Cashion: To be honest. It depends what your goal is. Right? If we really want to look at business, right? Like if my goal is to drive leads to my marketing agency, then like my video consumption is a metric to look at. But if my leads are driving, my leads are driving. Right. And so, but if my goal is to have as many brands sponsorships on my page every single month, then I care about views.
[00:38:32] Right. And so it’s not that views are bad and views are good. It’s much more of like, okay, what’s the higher level objective. What’s the why behind what you’re putting out. And are you actually driving that?
[00:38:43]Kris Ward: So I thought, and this is great that you’re here. So I thought that the algorithm would like, I’d be more favorable if say this video is 42% of people are watching the video all the way through. I thought that was the ding, ding, ding, ding.
[00:39:00]Hayden Cashion: And you’re a hundred percent, right. I think I was where I was more going, is like, it’s very easy to hack that. Right. You can hack that, but will it actually achieve what you’re up to? Right. Like for me, it’s like I could go into Walmart and do a prank video with someone, get 5 million views, pop my followers off, but I’ll never get another lead to my agency again, cause everyone will think I’m a clown.
[00:39:19] And so it’s important to understand where you’re trying to go with it. And I don’t begrudge anyone for what they do, but I do think like sometimes if you’re just talking about like, here’s the latest trend and that’s your marketing content people don’t actually look at you as a thought leader in someone they want to have on their podcast or someone they want to partner with for their company.
Or someone, you know, that will go on a speaking tour next year. Like, it’s very important to understand where you’re trying to go with it and leverage the platform accordingly.
[00:39:48]Kris Ward: No, you are right. Because, I think what you’re saying, what I did understand is that I could do a 15 second video where I give one tip on how you should have systems and processes in your business.
[00:40:00] And just because everybody was… 60% of people watch that doesn’t mean I would be better served. I might have another video where I explained how we’re different from my competitors and maybe only 13% watched it, but it was a two-minute video and my leads transferred. So yes, just because the algorithm likes me doesn’t mean I’m getting people to the second date kind of deal.
[00:40:20]Hayden Cashion: A hundred percent. I will go back on my point a little bit and saying like in TikTok, you should do TikTok things, right? Like you may want to save the long form content for the landing page and have a two minute video explaining a little bit more once they click through and are committing some time. But with that being said, the algorithm also understands that the longer your video is the tougher it’s going to get to have completion rate.
[00:40:44] And obviously nobody knows the actual breakdown, but let’s say it’s something like if you want to go viral, TikTok’s like if it’s 10 seconds, you know, a hundred percent completion, if it’s 20 seconds, you need 70% completion. If it’s 30 seconds, you need 50%. And so it understands that it’s not just like, if you make a long video, you’re screwed.
[00:41:01] Especially if you tell a good story, like those videos can go crazy, right? Like if you’re taught, like this has nothing to do with business, but if you’re just talking about like, Hey, like my significant other just broke up with me and I’m in shambles. And you tell that two minute story that can go viral because your completion rate is crazy on a two-minute video.
[00:41:18] Right. And so the way I always say it. Every extra second that you hold people, it becomes harder to hold people, but if you can hold them, it has higher value. And so that’s kind of, that’s kind of a trade-off. So if you have any dead space, you cut it.
[00:41:36]Kris Ward: Kind of like, it reminds me of, I think, anything done well comes down to business.
I remember hearing comedian talk about that. That the longer you take to set up a joke, the bigger the laugh has to be. Cause you took their time. Right? Okay. Awesome. Okay. Okay.
[00:41:50]Hayden Cashion: And every second you take as a risk as a comedian, right? If you do like one little setup and bump the set up and bumped the set up a bit more, if any of those bumps fall short, it ruins all the progress you’ve done upfront.
[00:42:01] And so it’s similar to that where it’s like, if you have a 62nd video and it only short fall short at 40 seconds to 42 seconds. Well, since it went down 50% there it’s over. Whereas if you just cut that out, it would have been perfect.
[00:42:16]Kris Ward: Right. Okay. Good point. Okay. What are some other things that we should be mindful of?
[00:42:21]Hayden Cashion: I think you should be building depth in the comments. I think that’s something that you do very well as you engage with the community on social media.
[00:42:32]Kris Ward: I see, I see. Yeah. Oh, I see. Well, thank you. All right. Hold on. Pause while you get a compliment general you.
[00:42:40]Hayden Cashion: No, no, no. I think that’s something that you do very well, but I see so many people put out content and never talk to their, I call them fans because of what I’m trying to accomplish, but never talk to the people that engage with them.
[00:42:51] Like, it’s almost disrespectful. It’s like if I came on your podcast and just like, didn’t say a word, like, like, what are you doing? You have to put out content and then you have to build the depth. And I think. What people, what hurts people to understand how valuable this is is you don’t see the metric, right?
[00:43:08] You go to your page, you see how many followers you have. You see the total likes, those are the metrics you can see very basic. Anyone can understand it, but there’s no metric that says how deep on a percentage of one to a hundred. Does your community feel to you on average? Is there 10% depth, a 30, if that metric was there, then all of a sudden people might start caring a little bit more, but that’s actually the magic of business, right?
[00:43:31] Like if you put out TikTok videos, but then you go TikTok live for an hour and just say, talk to the community or do a podcast. And people can get a better sense of who you are. That’ll close more business than the TikTok because people actually build that depth with you. So that’s another way to do it is to talk to people in the comments, push them to Instagram, talk in the DMS, push them to LinkedIn, talking to DMS, like spend time and actually build that depth.
[00:43:55]Kris Ward: Well, you know what I learned and I learned a lot in this show cause we’ve got brilliant people coming through all the time like yourself. And it really was an aha moment hit myself inside of the head because we get so caught up in the producing and what we have to do with social media. And it really was a game changer for me when I realized, you know what, I can’t control, whatever content I put out there what’s happening with that.
[00:44:15] But what I can control is how much I engage with other people’s content. And it really was, it turned everything around for me and someone like yourself where it’s like, I was new to TikTok. I was learning a lot from you and I wanted to cheer you on show support. I would always want to do that, but I never thought of that came in the form of engagement.
[00:44:33] But also then when I say, Hey, I’d love to have you on this show. You know who I am. And I even was purposeful in the beginning. I was like, oh man, he really has got tight content. I’m going to leave this for a bit and just keep commenting until he knows who I am. And it’ll be easier reach.
[00:44:48]Hayden Cashion: Of course. Yeah. And it’s funny too, like even coming back to the podcast thing, if anyone gets an invite on a podcast and says no to that invite, I don’t understand what their strategy is. Like every opportunity to be on a podcast, no matter the size of it is an opportunity to create content. We have a camera right here filming me, and we’re going to clip this and put it on Tik Tok.
[00:45:10] We’re going to make TikToks out of this. Me and you are going to have this interaction. We’re going to build depth. And then on your side as well, you’re going to put out the full length podcast. You might put out other smaller pieces of content. So it’s like, this is such a good use of one hour. And it has, it has nothing to do with the actual reach of the full audio file. Like there’s so much other beautiful stuff to come out of here.
[00:45:32]Kris Ward: Yeah. And that was another thing I saw on Tik Tok and I was shocked about, and I was like, oh my gosh. And it was people having their phone off to the side, like say, while I’m doing a coaching call. And then at the end that I do every week, and then at the end of it just, I don’t need to see the client.
[00:45:47] You don’t need to hear them, but the dynamics of me talking to somebody, the stories I tell her, the things I train them on are fresh and they’re very different. And there’s a more interesting energy because you can feel that I’m talking to someone and clip them down to 32nd videos. I was like, that is nuts.
[00:46:03] Like that is like thousands of videos just in the last six months that I could have been clip, clip, clip. And that is encouraged and accepted on TikTok, where that would never make a YouTube video-ish. So that’s awesome. Tell, give us some insight on about the lives explained to us when and why and what we should be doing with the lives.
[00:46:24]Hayden Cashion: You know, what’s funny is I don’t know much about the lives because I just haven’t. The thing about live is you have to put time in. You have to spend the 30 minutes, you have to spend the hour. And obviously time is the most valuable asset. And it’s something that I personally don’t have a lot of, but what I’ve been trying to do now is like a lot of podcast opportunities.
[00:46:40] I’ve been like, Hey, let’s just go TikTok live, right. Especially if it’s a transferable audience, especially if we share the same audience, because it’s obviously a way to create content. Like I said, we shoot the content outside of the actual thing. So you can be live on your phone and be getting the clips over here.
[00:46:54] But then it creates an opportunity to actually swap audiences. The audience is engaging, you’re answering questions. It just creates a different experience. And the thing about it too, is like when you post TikToks, if you’re live your avatar on the side of your TikTok, if someone’s watching it is pulsating to show that you’re live.
[00:47:11] So when someone’s consuming you, they can instantly get depth. They can instantly jump in. Right. And so I think once again, it’s just another way to create a ton of other verticals of additional value while you’re doing something you’ve already done.
[00:47:24]Kris Ward: Okay. So that’s a really good point. So one is, I did start doing that when I’m a guest on other shows and I’m focusing on building your Win Team, your what is next team and our super toolkits and all that we do.
I do now film that as well on the side and what I’d say to them before we go, Hey, I know this isn’t coming out a few weeks, but could I have this? Are you okay with me doing a live on Tik Tok? So I was doing that. Excellent. So there is a lot of hoopla about the lives and they boost your videos and stuff.
[00:47:51] But what you’re saying is the return on your investment. At this point, isn’t something you’re excited about. You don’t want to be sitting there and lives. And five people show when you’re trying to build a following, it’s just too much upfront work. So it’s not the blanket fit that they make it seem for everybody.
[00:48:06]Hayden Cashion: I wouldn’t even critique myself and say, I am not finding enough. I’m just not looking for the opportunities to go live. It’s not something that I’ve ever done actually. And so I think it would be a great way for me to integrate it where it’s just like, okay, let’s look at my schedule this week. Let’s look for two spots where I’m doing either a call or a meeting.
[00:48:24] That’s able to be public knowledge and let’s just put it to the side and let it run because what’s the downside, right? Like that’s something that I’m now going to take from this podcast and integrate. And even more importantly, it’s something that I’m going to make a Tik Tok about.
[00:48:36]Kris Ward: Right. Yo, I feel like somehow I’m can be like, that’s me. I was there. Okay. Butnthe basic formula where people would go, oh, I’m going to be here to answer questions and do the lives and the traditional lives. That’s not that you’re not a fan of that at this point. It’s just too much time.
[00:49:56]Hayden Cashion: Unfortunately for me, and like once again, I think it’s a full-on excuse if I really evaluated every single hour of my day, but I think I don’t want to put my time there.
[00:49:06] Quite frankly, and I’ll tell you something interesting. So my personal TikTok, we put out two a day, I run another company called Modern Marketing Certificate and we have a totally separate Tik Tok. I put out four pieces a day so there. So like I could technically be putting out six Tik Toks a day on my personal, but I’m so focused on this new company and building it that I’ve put out 66% of my content on a completely new page.
[00:49:31] Right. And so that’s what I mean is just like to then find an hour to just to just go live. But that’s why I think it’s smart to find opportunities where you can go live, where you’re already doing something you’re not actually going low. It’s just like hanging out there.
[00:49:45]Kris Ward: Yeah, no, you’re right. And that’s I had, that’s where I became a quick fan is the modern marketing end.
And again, the Tik Tok is so generous. I don’t know if I sound like somebody’s grandmother here. TikTok is so generous where you can just side view something you’re already doing, but there was this big hub that I, or lots of hubbub about, you know, oh, you should be doing a Q and A or lives every day or something like that.
[00:50:08] So I love that. You’re clarifying like, okay, that may be your path, but it is not the path. And it’s not the, like, to me, it was starting to be like a staple, like, oh, you have to be you in lives every day. You have to be doing Tik Tok videos. So that is an evaluate where you are and what you want in your journey type situation.
[00:50:26]Hayden Cashion: Only 24 hours in a day. Right.
[00:50:30]Kris Ward: You were preaching to the choir here. Fantastic. Okay. We’ve got a couple of minutes left. Let’s talk about whatever, you know, what other stuff you think. Oh, we just can’t part with you sharing that wisdom.
[00:50:43]Hayden Cashion: Another thing. If we’re going to stay on the Ti Tok topic is just the crutches.
The app has given you to create amazing content. Right? So one of the things that I love is, and I don’t even use it. I just really love the feature is the green screen feature where like, literally you go to the effects tab, you click green screen, and then you can go to you just like, save a photo in your camera roll, you select it.
[00:51:05] And it pops up behind you. And like, you can just be on your phone and it’s right by it’s part, it’s an amazing like tool from a technological standpoint, you can like point at it. Or you can like say this headline here, you’ll never guess what happened. Or you can do something where like, Hey, this was me.
[00:51:19] You know, before my weight loss journey and like move out of the way. And like, this is me. Like, you can get creative with it. That think about it. That tool creates such an opportunity for creators, right? To create magic. It gives you the crutch. Another thing is like the duet feature, right? You see a TikTok that you like, you could duet.
[00:51:38] And then you make a video side by side or the stitch feature where you can take a five second clip from a TikTok and add onto it. So I think TikToks and cue the music as well. Like the fact that they have music integration, like let’s not forget like Tik Tok was the first channel to really do that.
[00:51:52] And so all these crutches to make anyone with a phone in their bedroom, a crater and unlimited organic reach, like it’s so magical. It’s the first discovered discoverability app at scale.
[00:52:06]Kris Ward: Yeah, you’re right. Because I thought at first that the green-screen I thought like, oh, they had the equipment, they had all set up and it’s just a button on TikTok.
[00:52:14] And I had put somebody that said, Kris Ward, you saved my life. And it was a quote on LinkedIn because she had worked with us. And so, you know what? You just took a screenshot of it and then hit that little button and it’s behind me. And I can point and talk to it. It literally took a quarter of a second.
[00:52:29] Whereas previously that would be a whole, you need the space, the room, the green screen, the setup. So you’re absolutely right on that one. It was just, and then the stitch one, so I could be taking, let me just make sure I get this and try to explain this to you guys is you could be doing a video about something you said right now, a TikTok thing.
[00:52:50] There’s only so many hours in a day. This way I do this on Tik Tok. And then I can take that and attach my video and saying, oh my gosh, you know what? Hayden’s got it. Right. Boom. And then you just start talking beneath because they’re stitched together.
[00:53:04]Hayden Cashion: Yeah. So there’s that some people get confused. There’s two features. There’s the duet. And there’s this stitch. Duet is where your two videos are side by side, the originals playing, and then you do whatever you want while it’s playing. That’s the duet. The stitch is when you take, so you take my video, the clip, the 24 hours in a day, you click stitch on my video.
[00:53:26] It’ll allow you to select up to five seconds of my video. So you take that exact moment. Then when you click record, the moment that you selected will start playing. And then as soon as that five seconds is up, it’ll flip to you. You can commentate on it. So you could take my video and you could, that’d be like this.
[00:53:45] This guy’s completely wrong. There’s more hours in a day. And like, and it’s a different feature because with the duet there sounds going on. So you can’t really like talk over someone perse, but with the stitch feature, it lets them go. Then you finished everything.
[00:54:01]Kris Ward: Oh, I did get that all confused. And I think that’s to where then they’ll have somebody like, whatever, like a notable leader or somebody on Facebook or somebody that you would ever, I can’t think of any, but okay.
[00:54:13] I’m going to be honest. The only one I can think of right now is Gary V and I’m not a huge fan of him. So I was like, oh, it’s somebody else. Somebody will play a Gary V thing. And then they’ll comment afterwards. My comment must would be you don’t need to be swearing all that time. You’re not that cool.
[00:54:27] We’re fine. But so that’s what it almost makes it look like you interviewed him-ish, but we know it’s… yeah. Okay. I didn’t want to stitch or duet, but I get it. Okay, excellent. I didn’t want to use the wrong word after your big presentation, but I did get those two things confused. So that’s the point, I guess, is there are really
[00:54:49] easy abilities to become… improve your aspect of communicating. I think hourly and daily, like it’s unbelievable. I think in a month you can make a profound impact on clarifying your own message and finding your audience. And I just find it so much more forgiving than the other platforms.
[00:55:08]Hayden Cashion: A hundred percent. And yeah, they give you all the tools to make it super easy to create. I think this is it is like Tik Tok is the ultimate. You don’t have an excuse. You have all the tools at your fingertips. It’s an app that prefers you to film on your phone. Like not a high production. It prefers you to just be yourself, have fun, entertain, give some value. Like it’s literally, if you want to be calm someone with a following, here’s your gift.
[00:55:38]Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Well, Hayden, you have been a treat. I courage you all. If you like, you’ve got to go over and check him out on TikTok and you just can not watch a video and not learn something. If you have ever even had a lemonade stand, you’ll learn something from Hayden.
[00:55:53] And it will really inspire and excite you. And I really do think it drops all the barriers that the other ones had as far as having to write out all these things and just produce the content and all this, all the steps. Right. And as we run over, I know one of the people will tell you on Tik Tok, how do you use Tik Tok more effectively?
[00:56:11] And they’ll even give you the cheats of like sometimes, oh, you can shoot it in your car and make it look like you just pulled over. Cause you had to share that idea. So the spontaneous stuff is sometimes crafted, but what they’re doing is constantly showing you like, look, we just want good content. Don’t let there be any delays.
[00:56:29]Hayden Cashion: A hundred percent. And off with two is like, build your brand, like say your name, let people see your face, like build your brand because as you build a following, the downside of it is they’re not guaranteed to see you again. So it’s all about building that brand, building that recognition, making that sticky messaging and honestly pushing them to platforms where if they follow you, they’re going to see you more TikTok
[00:56:52] in my opinion is not a depth platform. It’s where you cast your widest net and then you should pull them to your next step in your journey, whatever that may be. But that is the downside of TikTok is you get the fan, but there, they may never see you again.
[00:57:08]Kris Ward: Okay. So that is, here’s an important question. Sorry. He might be on a six part Netflix series is I see two schools of thoughts about call to actions, which are like, don’t do the, the YouTube called the action swipe. Like some people don’t say swipe and like, and all that other stuff, but I know you do always end on, Hey, you want to learn more about Martin marketing, whatever.
[00:57:31] So what is there should be there be a mixture or is it really just your style? I didn’t know if it was bad etiquette, but then I see you doing it. Like, is it just supposed to be conversational? I don’t know which way to lean that way.
[00:57:43]Hayden Cashion: I guess this is how I’d frame it up. You just made me really realize it. I don’t care what the platform wants. I’m doing what I want. Like my goal is to get people to know who I am. And become a leadin my agency or to join the modern marketing certificate. I’m not here to like pander to like, that’s why I don’t get many views on a lot of my videos. Like for the following count I have, my views are quite low.
[00:58:05] If you look at other creators is because they don’t pander to the platform. But my business metrics on the backend are a lot better than other creators. I’ve big creators messaged me all the time. Like, Hey, I have millions of followers and I’m struggling to like, make good money. Can you please help me?
[00:58:19] And I look at what they’re doing and I look at all these opportunities that they have, and it’s not necessarily that they’re not doing direct calls to action on the platform, but there’s a very big difference between being a good creator who can get a lot of views and being someone who can actually build whatever you want to build outside of the platform.
[00:58:37] So the final note is don’t pander to the platform, understand, understand the platform and make the conscious decision where you want to pander and where you do not. I want followers. I want people to go to my Instagram and DM me. I’m going to say all these things, cause that’s what I want to happen. There’s no point in getting views and getting people.
[00:58:56] If it’s not actually going towards what I want to happen. I know like, they’ll say, if you say the word Instagram and things like that, it will downgrade you and all that type of stuff, but that’s fine. Cause I do want people to go to my Instagram. I’ll take the downgrade and get the seven people that come over.
[00:59:09] So you drive them there instead of do you offer opt-in? I’m inconsistent with where I pushed them because for me, I want to push them to where it’s natural in the video. So sometimes I’ll say something and I’ll be like, and I’ll be like, that’s my opinion, but please comment. Let me know your opinion.
[00:59:27] And literally I ended there there’s sometimes the obvious one, if there’s nothing to do, I’ll just say, Hey, follow me for more. Sometimes I’ll say something and be like, Hey, you know, I’m looking for these leads, go to my website, apply. Sometimes I’ll say, Hey, I’m curious what you think. Go to my Instagram, send me a message.
So for me, it’s very much like I pushed them to different places based on the content. But I know my overarching goal.
[00:59:49]Kris Ward: Fabulous. All right, everyone. You must check him out. Head on over to TikTok. There’s show notes here. I’ll make sure his link is there. I’m telling you, you will not be disappointed and everyone else we’ll see you in the next episode. [01:00:01]END