How To Persuade With Powerful Copy Now! With Ray Edwards

Episode Summary

Ray Edwards gives us the goods! This is a very special episode of Now! Your Business as we talk with the man, the myth, the legend of copywriting – Mr Ray Edwards! If you think copy writing is not a big part of what you do and/ or it’s a boring topic? Well, you’ll be wrong on both counts! Copy is the intention to persuade!!! And don’t we all want to persuade! Join us in this special episode as Ray gives huge value bombs!

Learn
-the biggest mistake in copywriting
-the inside secrets of how good copy looks and sounds
-how to truly talk to your customer so you can have an impact
-why copy is the backbone to your success
-how you can change your copy and your business NOW!

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You can find Ray Edwards:
Website:  https://rayedwards.com/
Book: How to Write Copy That Sells 
Podcast – The Ray Edwards Show 

Speaker 1: (00:06)

Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay, sure. Okay. Okay. Hmm. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2: (02:49)

Yay. I’m super excited. How are you?

Speaker 1: (02:57)

I was gonna how you were, but you already told me

Speaker 2: (02:59)

I am.

Speaker 3: (02:59)

I’m all about that. All right. I am super excited. I cannot wait to do this. I thank you very much for doing this. I, I’m a huge fan and tåhis is a big treat for me. So very excited. Yes. Now the nineties Oh, we haven’t even gotten started yet. Can I be so bold? I just want to get a quick picture of us before we start. Is that okay? No, sure. Ah, here you go. Okay, perfect. Awesome. All right. Okay. I eat your stuff up. I anyhow, I can’t even wait. This will be super exciting for me. Alright, so busy man, doing lots of important stuff. I’m sure you don’t know. Little to nothing about me. So we have, one of the things I have is a podcast called, now your business actually have a, I feel very silly telling you this, but I have a marketing agency. It’s like telling Meryl Streep. I have a small school to teach people how to act.

Speaker 3: (03:59)

I am a marketing agency. You know, nothing to compare it to what you do. And then I also have a platform when the hour, when the day, which I wrote a book on, so mostly online, this won’t come up in the conversation, but I’m just telling you a little bit, mostly online. I’m all about business should be fun and your business should support your life, not consume it. So that’s mostly what I’m online for and use all your marketing magic for. And then I have this podcast now your business and the big thing I want people to get from this, it’s similar to when the hour, when the day is everything. Now with all the technology I feel often moves people further and further away from the goal. And so it’s really about, Hey, what can they do right now? You know, to now your business. So I’m gonna lead you in, give your intro and then I’m going to ask for a little bit about frankly, how you sort of became the godfather, my eyes of copywriting, and get a little teeny backstory of there for those who are not blessed enough to know you. And then really we’re just gonna let you do your magic because you have such a profound ability to bring clarity to what can be, I think, a very dry subject if not done well. So that’s what that would look like. Does that sound good to you? Sounds perfect. Okay. Awesome. I’m a little sip of water here.

Speaker 3: (05:17)

Okay. Let me see. Set my timer timer, full screen tech selfie. Little notes here. All right. Okay. Right.

Kris: (05:42)

Hey everyone, welcome to now your business is Kris Ward and we have a super big, Oh, you know what, hold on, I want to stop before I start again. I want to ask you, especially you, your bio, uh, do you mind if I don’t read all their, or is that important to you?

Speaker 4: (05:58)

Oh, it’s whatever you choose.

Speaker 3: (06:00)

Okay, perfect. I had a big note there to ask you if it was okay to edit it. Okay. Okay. Eight two. Okay.

TIMESTAMP Starts: Kris: (06:12)

Hey everyone. Welcome to now your business and I’m Kris Ward and I cannot wait to dive into this week’s episode. We have a treat. Um, I mean I’m not kidding you. A big huge treat today we have Ray Edwards and listen, if you do not know who he is, your life is about to change. Ray Edwards is a communication strategist, copywriter, author, speaker, and the host of one of the top iTunes business podcast. He has worked with fortune 500 companies and with some of the most powerful voices in leadership and business. His clients include New York times bestselling authors, Michael Hyatt, Tommy, Tony, mama, gosh, Tommy. I know him so well. I call him Tommy, Tony Robbins, Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, and Jeff Walker. And he is, listen, anyone that I have ever admired or respected or learn from, this is the guy that, that guy quotes. So welcome to the show. Ray Edwards.

Ray: (07:11)

Thank you so much Chris. That’s very, I’m going to try to live up to that introduction.

Kris: (07:16)

Okay. Now for those of you who are not blessed to know him, I’m gonna give him a few seconds here to give his backstory, but most of us are really, really lucky because as I said, anytime you talk about any depth of business marketing or anything that’s powerful to business, which you know you’re gonna enforce that about copywriting being the foundation to everything your name comes up, Ray. So tell us a teeny little bit about yourself because I want to just dive into your vast wealth of knowledge.

Ray: (07:46)

Well, um, I have been interested in communicating like this since I was a kid. Really. I was a, I grew up with the grandparents who read the national Enquirer and I used to love to read these stories in the back of the national Enquirer and they were actually full page ads. I didn’t realize that at the time. Uh, as I grew older, I found out that they were written by this guy named Eugene Schwartz who was one of the greatest copywriters of all time. And that I tell you that because that was the Genesis as I got into the radio business was a DJ. I wrote ads for the stations clients. I was good at that. I had a knack for it. And I found out about Eugene Schwartz and I realized, Oh, I like this kind of stuff. So began writing copy and radio, did that for 30 years and then, um, left radio when Steve jobs invented the radio killer, also known as the iPod, a thousand songs in your pocket and no DJs, no commercials, hello, game over. Um, so I started writing copy for speakers and authors and ended up writing for some famous people who you quoted their names and there’s others. And it’s been a really fun ride. I love communicating, I love working with those people. Many of them were my heroes, so I got to write for some of my heroes and got to see other businesses worked and help them grow their empires and spend a lot of fun. And now I teach people how to do that for themselves. So I enjoy that too.

Kris: (09:00)

Yeah. And the fascinating part to me is that, you know, I do have a marketing agency and that’s great, which is, I said to you before we started the call, it’s absolutely ridiculous for me to throw those words around in your presence, but anyhow, but what I want people to understand is, you know, it’s not, I don’t want people tuning away if they don’t have a marketing agency and they think, Oh, I don’t write copy. Because you know, your books and your podcasts lay these messages out as so eloquently, so beautifully. I mean, everything you do, everything is copied. You just can’t escape it. So that’s the part I really want for people who may be, you know, having tripped across your work. I really want to talk about, you know, how that creeps into any aspect of any, you know, Avenue you’re gonna pursue in your business.

Ray: (09:45)

One of the things I learned from Tony Robbins was this, the quality of your life and the quality of your business is in direct proportion to the quality of your communication. He’s all about, if you think about what Tony does, he’s all about communication as well. He’s about communicating with yourself first about your life, by how you look at life, by how you approach life, how you feel about yourself or your self images like, and that’s, that’s copy as cause. All copy is, is communicating with the intention to persuade and we’re the first person we have to persuade about anything as ourselves. The first person we have to influence is ourselves. And once we can do that and then it may be about the importance of our work, the, the power of our skills that we offer to people, how we can help them. Mmm. That’s communicating that message to us and empowers us to communicate to other people what we can do for them. So then, then it becomes, well, what is not copy? Well, the way you answered the phone is copy what’s on your business card is copy. What’d you say to people when you meet them at a conferences copy. If we were having conferences these days, we’re not having them, but we will again. We will happen again. It’s not just about the page that sells your product or service, it’s about everything. You communicate to everybody all the time. That’s all copy. So copies kind of important.

Kris: (10:59)

Yeah. And you know what, listen, I, I, I, he’s a very, I’m going to speak as if he’s not in the room here. Mr. Ray Edwards I think is a very patient kind and he presents himself, is just such a gentleman. So he’s not going to up himself as much as I’m going to brag him up here because I would tell you when the best books I’ve ever read is how to write copy that sells. And I read it more than once. And what I would really like to know, and this, I know we’re in a day and age of technology, but how is it I read the book and the next time I read the book you’ve inserted new things that I’m certain were not there before because I didn’t grasp. So I’d like to know how you do that because I’m like, gosh, you know, it never left the house and yet he got new stuff in here. So, I mean the simplicity of the way you present this information that I think is also your super power. Because I’ve seen you on stage, I’ve read your books, I’ve listened to your podcast and it’s just, you know, the profound simplicity of is really just, you know, I always think of the one quote that I know Mark Twain where he said I would’ve written a shorter letter but I didn’t have time. And yet you do that, you do that over and over again where you just simplify the message and it really is impactful.

Ray: (12:09)

Well thank you for that. And my wife gets at least 80% credit for that because she went through the first few drafts of the book for me and she kept saying, what are you talking about? You need, this needs to be more clear, more usable. She’s the reason. For instance, there’s a checklist at the end of every chapter. Wow. She said people need to take away like what are they supposed to do with this information? So, and it’s important to me. She’s helped drive home. To me the need to make sure every paragraph, every sentence is practical. People can actually use it to achieve what they came to the book to achieve. So thank you for saying those things and Lynn gets a lot of the credit.

Kris: (12:45)

Well a good man always saying it’s a good woman. So, so that, you know, when we’re talking about now your business, I always want to talk to people about, okay, what can they do for their business now? And what was really interesting to me is we always want to share some of the stumbles we’ve had in our own journey. I was listening to your podcast one day and you were talking, okay, let me, I listen to your podcast many days, let me clarify that. But on this particular day you were talking about you know what you do and that you’re in this very crowded space. Everybody you know is a marketer these days and online marketer especially. And that just shocked me because you know, as we all bow down to you and think, Oh my gosh, like I said, the guys that I admire quote you and here you are talking about the same thing the rest of us are talking about really making it very relatable. Like look, we’re all navigating through, you know, different times and not hiccups and bumps in our business. And for you to even have that on your radar was fascinating to me. So what are some of the things where you said, okay, in your business you say, Oh my gosh, all right, what am I going to do now? I’ve got to take a turn here now because men, you know, we just look at you and say like, the days are easy. I mean he’s Ray Edwards. So that was really powerful turning point for me that made me realize, okay, you know, when I’m struggling with something that’s just part of business forever.

Ray: (14:02)

Well it’s just the human experience and we are, we’re all human beings and we all have insecurities. We all have fears, we all have things we think about in terms of how do we, how are we positioned in the marketplace? It doesn’t matter how new or how long you’ve been around. Um, do you have different thoughts? I mean, our thoughts all centered around what’s gonna work for me now. What can I do now to help my customers? How can I stay relevant? I mean that’s something that’s on my mind now. When I started in this business, it was how can I get people to pay attention to me cause I’m so young, that’s not my challenge anymore. My challenge now is how can I stay relevant, make sure I stay in touch with what’s happening in the marketplace in a way that’s meaningful to my customers. And like that’s why I’m on tick tock. I mean, good grief tick tock for 14 year old girls. What am I doing on there? It’s because it’s, it’s growing. It’s where the market’s gonna end up two or three years from now, people are gonna look back and say, why didn’t I get on tick-tock earlier? So I’m there trying to figure that out now. And um, so it’s just, it’s a matter of staying relevant, staying. It really comes down to this. It’s the same for all of us. It comes down to putting ourselves in the position of our customers that people who are going to serve, the deepest, the most people were paying the most attention to is the people we can help the most. How? How can we best serve them? How can we get enough knowledge, enough experienced enough depth of wisdom to make sure we’re serving them up to the highest level possible for us. So like right now what I’m thinking about is how can I help people in this time? We’re in a challenging time right now. I don’t know when people might be listening to this, maybe years later, um, but maybe months later, maybe all over. Hopefully it’s months later. We’ve all forgotten about it. It’s the Corona virus. Right now we’re all in kind of on house arrest and it’s for the good of the, of the society. So I’m all in favor of it. But it’s a, it’s challenging for business people because they don’t know what to do next. So right now we’re, we’re turning our messaging and our focus in our company. We’re creating some new programs for people to help them figure out how do I grow my business in a time like this without being a profiteer? How do I do it in a way that serves and how do I still grow because we all still want to grow and the society needs us to grow because if we don’t make money, nobody gets paid. So the best way we can help the economy is not by hunkering down and stuffing dollars in our mattresses. It’s by making more money. If we can do that honestly with integrity and help really help people. And most of us in the marketing business and the online business world, we do have the opportunity to do that unlike, um, it’s different. Like I own a restaurant on a coffee shop with my son and um, so that’s a different, it’s important as a business, it’s important to community. But on the other hand, it’s shut down. Right now I business, our marketing business is not shut down cause that’s online and it’s virtual and it has a more ubiquitous nature. It appeals to many different market markets and entrepreneurs and people in different categories. So we, Oh, it’s to our customers to be the best we can be the best we’ve ever been now.

Kris: (17:01)

Yeah.

Ray: (17:01)

And so that’s what I’m focused on now. So, and I think about, well, things I think about in relation to that, to get back to your question, what are things that are on my mind that are probably on everybody’s mind is how to do this tastefully. So it’s not offensive to people. How’d I do it in a way that really helps? How to do it in a way that grows my business, that keeps my people employed, it serves my customers the deepest, um, and this relative to the times. And that doesn’t leave me, um, having to make tough decisions on down the road six months from now. So those are all things that are on my mind right now. But I feel like in a way, it’s my job to think through these things. I had in my customer so that can save them falling in a hole, which sometimes means I fall in the hole for them

Kris: (17:40)

first. Yes, and that’s a good point. What would you say, what do you see as I would call the biggest, I don’t want to say copy mistakes, but what is it the misconception that you stumble upon every day that you wish people would knew? Like if they just did that now, it would change, make things so much easier for them.

Ray: (18:01)

The single biggest mistake is very easy to identify. It is thinking about and writing about your product or service from your viewpoint instead of the viewpoint of your customer. And everybody I talked to says, Oh yeah, I know that I do that. I look at their copy and I think you don’t even have a clue. Haven’t even thought this through. Really the things that we care about as product purveyors or service providers are not the things that our customers care about, about his results that change their lives, that make their lives easier, that put cash in their cash register. They feed their families. That helps them. If we, if we help people with their health and make them healthier, that makes it make it easier for them to eat the right foods, to do the right exercises, to have the better relationships. Whatever it is we help people do. So we’ve got the best thing you can do for your copy. If you do nothing else, you learn nothing else from me or from anybody else ever about copy is put yourself in the position of your customer and right from their viewpoint about what they want, what they need. And if you can describe Jay. Abraham says it this way, so beautiful. He says, if you can describe somebody else’s problem and articulate it better than they can do it themselves, they will automatically believe you have the solution to that problem. That’s the best copy you can write. Letting them know you understand their problem very, very well. Maybe better than they do.

Kris: (19:16)

And I still believe in that. And that is the power of your book is as you read it and you’re like, it’s almost like aye. Aye. Aye. Forgive me cause I don’t mean to, I’m not minimizing it. I’m talking about the power of the simplicity. It’s almost like in a way, sometimes it’s common sense or sometimes it’s like, you know what, I I knew, I knew that, I forgot I knew it and why am I not doing it? And I tell people, as you mentioned, you know Apple, you think, well, we all know that famous commercial, a thousand songs in your pocket instead of talking about the technology that they could have been so proud of. So that is such a simple message. But yet when it’s your product or your service, how you only see out instead of seeing it. And sometimes you can get really lost even when you know in one part of your brain what you’re supposed to be doing is a marketer, an effective copywriter, and then all of a sudden you get lost in the traffic yet.

Ray: (20:05)

Well, Chris, first of all, let me say you, you apologize at first for saying you didn’t mean to minimize it by saying it was so simple. That’s the greatest compliment you could have paid me. The hardest writing to do is write something that seems simple. It’s the toughest writing. It’s like the thing you quoted from Mark Twain earlier, whatever written your shorter sales letter, but I didn’t have time. Yeah. So it’s when you drill down to the needs of the customer, what they really want and desire and need, and you can articulate that in a way that’s meaningful to them. It seems simple to them when they read it, but it takes a lot of complex thinking to get there.

Kris: (20:41)

Right? Yeah, it really does. So when you’re doing, do you have a process so that you don’t get in your own way? Because like you said, so many of us you think, Oh no, no, I do that I cause we know that rule and we understand it. And then as you said, you look at the copy and go, no, you, you’re like, you’re upside down and sideways. How, what’s something that we could do now to assess that out a little bit?

Ray: (21:07)

There’s an exercise I’d like to do before I write copy where I sit down and I closed my eyes. I really do literally close my eyes and put myself in the life of my customer. The the one customer I’m writing to, who’s going to buy this thing, whatever it is I’m selling, and then I think through their day, I think about what, what it’s like when they wake up. What kind of house do they live in? What is it messy? Is it clean? Is it expensive? Is it, is it not expensive? Is it in a good part of town, a bad part of town? Do they have a job to drive to work in a good car or a nice car? No car ride a bicycle. What’s their day like at work? Do they hate their boss? They love their boss, they hate their job. Are they frustrated about, I go through their whole day. In my mind, I imagine everything, every detail I possibly can. Sometimes it takes me 2030 minutes to do this, but by the time I get to the end of that day in the, in the life of my customer, I feel like I’m in their life and I write from that perspective. I think about their fears, their frustrations, their anxieties. I did that meditation, if you will, before I write. Then I just write the copy because I’m now in a state that’s similar to the state of my customer. And it’s going to make me write in a way that’s in simpatico with the way they’re thinking and feeling. I don’t edit while I’m writing. I just write. And if you, if you can do that, if you really know your customers well, and if you don’t know your customers at all, that’s not gonna work.

Kris: (22:21)

Right?

Ray: (22:23)

You’re just got to put yourself in that picture. But if you know your customers well, cause you’ve talked to them, you know them, you know about their lives. Not just the demographics but the psychographics, what they, what their feelings are like what magazines. So if you can’t answer these questions, you have homework to do what ma? There’s breed. What websites do they visit? Are they on tick tock? Are they on Facebook or both? Or neither? What TV shows do they watch? What movies do you like to see? What, what books have they read lately or they do in their spare time for fun? Do they bold? They’ve never been building in their life. These are things you should know about your customers if at all possible. And people ask me, well how I find that stuff out? And that’s the scary part for most people. You talk to your customers and people say, well, how’d I do that? I said, well there’s this thing they invented is called a phone. You pick it up, you probably have some of their phone numbers. You call them and say, Hey Chris, how you doing? How’s life? It’s Ray. I just want to check in, see how things are going for you. And first of all, you have to wait for them to get over their shock that somebody actually called them on the phone, ask them how they’re doing and then just talk to them and let them. And when I say talk to them, I ask them a question, let them talk and listen carefully to what they say. Listen for any words that talk about things that make them fearful, that makes them anxious, that bother them, that are problems that they have. That oyster is a solution to. And the key is let them do most of the talking. And if you can, this is sometimes uncomfortable if you can get them to let you the conversation and you can have it transcribed and you have a treasure box full of treasure now cause you have phrases and words that came straight from a customer, you can clip those out and copy and paste them into a document where you have, these are words and phrases I want to use in my copy because this is how my customers talk.

Kris: (24:03)

[inaudible] yeah, I agree. That has been a powerful tool for me because again, big fan of yours and so I’ve learned some of these techniques and you’ll see things in the transcription and then especially when you’re lucky, I mean even you get three or four or five conversations and you start to see patterns and you’d see words that really, you’re like, ah, I thought that. Or I thought they thought that, but now you really see that that’s the first thing they bring up every time. So it really does sort of hit it between the eyes and it’s very powerful. So again, I think it’s, it’s boiling down and just not making it this big complicated heavy academic copy process. Would you agree?

Ray: (24:42)

I absolutely agree with that. Yes.

Kris: (24:44)

Yeah. I’m trying to be as uh, simply profound as you are Ray and talk in that radio voice. So, okay. Yeah, I’m giving him my best year people. Um, okay. So what would be, give us if you don’t mind, a second crime that you see committed every day because this, if we got you here, I just want to, I just want to hear you talk cause you’ve got so much wealth of knowledge.

Ray: (25:10)

A second. The second biggest mistake I see people make in copy a writing copy that it looks like what they think copy should look like. Um, my feeling is this, if your customer looks at your page and says, Oh, this is sales copy, you have blown it.

Kris: (25:27)

Right?

Ray: (25:28)

Um, they should be interested in the message so much that they don’t recognize the format of the message itself. It’s like if you’re reading a book, reading a novel, let’s say fiction and you, you start noticing the way the author uses a certain phrase over and over again, they have blown it because now you’re out of the story. They’ve, they’ve broken the dream if you will. And they’re making you think about them, about their writing skills or lack of them. So I don’t ever want my copy to make people look at it and go, Oh, this is interesting sales copy. I want them to read it and think what comes next? What about this, what about that? How do I buy this? That’s, that’s kind of the short form process and wants them to go through. So don’t write copy that you think looks like copy the F. the fact is the format of copy, does it matter as much as the content? If the content is presented in a format that’s relevant to the reader? It makes me want to read it. A lot of times. Um, people think if I’m going to use direct response sales copy to sell my stuff. And he said look like the old school sales letters like a Gary Halbert sales letter or something like that. And Gary Halbert is one of the greatest copywriters favorite to ever live. But I think there’s very few cases where you need to make copy that looks like, I mean visually it looks like his copy because that’s not relevant to audience. The only people that’s relevant to as people who grew up with Gary and like his coffee. So then it means it’s meaningful to them cause it’s a signal that says, Oh I’m one of your people. So writing copy that looks and sounds like copy is a mistake. Don’t do that right in a way that’s meaningful and communicates directly to your customer and you can still use the principles. You’re still going to use a headline, should we use subheads? You’re still going to make sure you have bullet points. Those, those, those are things that work regardless. But trying to write in a way that sounds and feels like copy is a mistake. Writing in a way that feels like you’re naturally having a conversation with your customer is what we’re really after. You have to remember that’s where a copy copywriting is. We think of it came from was writing in a conversational way. It felt like a letter from a friend. It got you to buy something. That’s why we call them sales letters. Even though they’re not letters anymore, we still call them sales letters even online cause it started in direct mail. We used to send a letter in the mail that sold people’s stuff. So if you think about what, what was the point of that? A lot of the way copy looks now online was influenced by that and it’s just kind of a holdover from the past. The real point is you want to communicate in a way that feels like it’s a communication from a friend. That’s the point.

Kris: (27:55)

That is a powerful point and a boy, I think it’s much easier said than done. I know for me, you know, you, I went to college in university and so then you put your shoulders back and you start typing and you’re like, okay, I got to sound like a professional. And it took me a long time, especially with social media where the world changed so dramatically in the last 10 years to learn that, you know, to be one-on-one instead of trying to show your academia whatever and it just, you know, to, to strip it down. I know I went to an event and I, uh, was headed wanting to dinner with her sort of business friend and he had a really good online business and I came back and two days later I got an email and I was halfway through the email before I figured out that this was not a one to one email to me. I was like, it was so good that I thought he was following up with us having dinner. And then I got to the bottom. Like this is just like for other people, this is for everyone. But it was so good and it was so, it’s such a powerful lesson to me. I’m like, I knew him, I knew him well. I went out to dinner and I thought this email was for me. So I think that’s the big thing too, is we get all this training and put all this money into whatever, and then you think, okay, let me show off my wisdom here and let me throw around some big words and industry words. And it’s just learning to talk, talk instead of speech or write has, has really something that I’m constantly working on.

Ray: (29:22)

Well, it seems like you’re doing a great job. So at work and one of the, one of the best, you know, I love that story because one of the best compliments I ever got about my copywriting is came from my wife, who one day I came home and she said, I got your email today, and I read the whole thing and got to the end before I realized it was to your list and not just to me.

Kris: (29:45)

Yes,

Ray: (29:45)

yes, yes, yes.

Kris: (29:49)

Awesome. Okay. Well, I am just so astatic I don’t want to take up any more of your time than I sort of promised you. So in my eyes, if you want to find Mr. Edwards online, you just key in Ray Edwards, the awesome marketer and a whole bunch of stuff will come up. But why don’t you tell people where you’d like them to reach out to you.

Ray: (30:08)

Oh, just go to Rayedwards.com and that connects to everything else. I’m on all the social platforms, but rayedwards.com is kind of home base where you can find everything. We get a lot of free stuff there that will be helpful to you. I hope so and useful. If you Google me, you may get me or you may get the former NFL football player, which he’s a very different person and he’s a great guy. It’s funny, when he was playing for the Baltimore Ravens, um, I started getting every S every time the season would start up. I started getting all these direct messages from um, he’s a, he’s a very athletic, very healthy, a African American man who looks very different from me. I started getting all these emails from African American women saying things that were embarrassing and sometimes scandalous, and I finally figured out what was going on. They were, they had the wrong Ray Edwards. So we started communicating with each other and it was funny, we had a great exchange for a while. Um, you thought it was amusing and he had read my book, which blew me away, but to, anyway, I digress. Let me, edwards.com ravers.com that’s where you can find anything about me. You want to know,

Kris: (31:15)

you know what? And when I was doing that, you know, I, I felt that I had a good wealth of knowledge on you, but of course I always do my homework. So I dove a little deeper and my starting to look from stuff. And even when I found your page, um, for your bio, I was like, Oh, I have all my bio together when people want me on their podcast. And I thought, I, I mean I thought I had it together. And then when I read your page, it was so good because it was like you were like, I’m like, this is online, but it looks like you’re talking to me. Like, okay, you can also use this graphic if you’re low. And you just walked me through like baby steps. Like it was the first thing I’d ever done and I was like talking to my team and look at just even as bile T just speaking directly to me. And it was so good. Like we got, we got distracted, we were so jealous. We’re like, look how we talks to you. Like Oh we gotta go back. Right. So it’s powerful stuff.

Ray: (32:06)

Oh Chris, you made my day. Thank you.

Kris: (32:09)

All right everyone. Thank you. This has been an awesome treat, Ray. We just cannot thank you enough. Check him out online. Read his books, read how to write copy that sells. I’m telling you, you want to read it. Reread it. Good stuff. Anytime you get an opportunity to listen to his podcast or anything else, anything else? Just words of wisdom continuously fall out of his mouth. So it’s been a real treat for us. Thank you again, sir. We really appreciate you.

Ray: (32:35)

Thank you. God bless.

TIMESTAMP End: Kris: (32:37)

Thanks.

Speaker 3: (32:40)

Okay, we’re good to go. My outro does afterwards. That was really fun and I cannot thank you enough. It was a really big treat for me. Thank you. In a few. Started my day off. Well thank you. Oh good. Yeah, I love your podcasts. I listened to them both. They’re just, I mean, and you know another thing which can be at like a whole nother show. I, I do believe under the language, like there’s copy and then I think language has power. Like how you use language to yourself or words that you use. Like one of my pet peeves, I don’t even like when people say killing time, like if you’ve ever seen someone fight for time, you would never say that again. Right. So I say filling times of killing time. Right. And I, it took me years to learn that who you are before five is who you are.

Speaker 3: (33:23)

After five. Like I thought, Oh sometimes I can be impatient but not when I’m at work. Right. Cause I’m like a better person, you know? And so even your, even just your thoughtful stuff that, you know, you’re even the short episodes where you’re like, ah, that is in my head. And I thought I had that under control. And just how the person bleeds into the professional is really, you know, it’s, it’s a whole nother, it’s a whole nother thing you do well that I think so many of us don’t address as entrepreneurs. You think, okay, I’m really good. This is my zone of genius. Get away from me, I’m working, you know, and then you forget how it all blends into people in lives and stuff. So I, you know, to me it’s like business church, your podcast. It’s like business church. Wow. That’s the first time you guys ever used that phrase. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Okay. So anyways, yeah. Well there you go. So I really appreciate your time. We will, we’re going to get this out sooner than later just because you are who you are. So, uh, yeah, we’ll send you this stuff, whatever to, you know, if you want to have copies of it, we will let people know about it. So let us know when it’s perfect. Perfect. I will do that. So you go have an awesome day and thank you for an amazing interview. You too. All right, thanks so much. Bye. Bye.