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Annie Ruggles Podcast Transcription
START[00:08:42]Kris Ward: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day, and I am your host, Kris Ward, and today in the house, we have Annie P. Ruggles and listen, she is going to deliver. And then some, it is going to be all kinds of fun. She is a founder of the Non – Sleazy Sales Academy. So Annie I’ve known her a short time, but I feel like I’ve known her forever, so I can not wait to dive into this. Annie. Thank you so very much. Welcome to the show.
[00:09:11]Annie Ruggles: Heck. Yeah, it’s delightful to be here, Kris. Thank you for having me.
[00:09:14]Kris Ward: Okay. So we’re gonna dive into two areas. Super, very important on both of them. One, we’re going to attack the whole referrals question, and then we’re going to deal with objection, handling in the sales process.
[00:09:25] So I will tell you I’ve had the best of the best here. You know, about referrals. And I guess I’m always stuck on no matter. Oh my gosh. Bob Burg was here with his book about referrals. I know he’s the man and he scoped everybody go out and get that book interview, go listen to Bob Burg. He’s amazing. Yes. So he’s like, you know, the guy and still, I struggle with
[00:09:54] asking for referrals, because I feel like I’m putting somebody on a spot, especially with Kasel. So here’s the deal for the nature of what I do. I deal with entrepreneurs at all, stressed out crazy, grinding it out, thinking that once they get past this next thing, things will be different. And still it’s a very specific thing. So then how do I, and honestly, and I think in my case to be fair, I think a lot of them are so isolated, grinding it out on their own late at night, thinking and embarrassed to tell other people how many hours they’re working.
[00:10:21] So then how do I ask them for referrals? Who do you else do, you know, in your life that’s falling apart that you might think this person, you never see them through life is falling apart in their business. So I think, and I, but here’s the thing. I’m going to say something that everybody says to me and everybody says all the time.
I think in my case, my business is different, but, but we all say that. So where do I start with that?
[00:10:40]Annie Ruggles: All right. Well, there’s much like all things. Even close to sales, right sales and all of its care, bear cousins. There’s a mindset piece and there’s a strategic piece and the mindset piece has to happen first, right off the bat.
[00:11:02] We need to reframe referrals. As giving someone an opportunity to be the guy. Everybody wants to be the guy, the person that goes to the party and they go, you got to know Kris. Kris knows everybody. Who are you looking for? Crystal? No. Crystal. Now everybody wants to be the person that knows the person that is a thing.
[00:11:26] And that goes right down to introvert. Introverts, love to connect other people in order to deflect the natural attention from themselves and maintain a new harmony among a new whole even introverts love to be the guy. If we go to a brand new restaurant, we want to tell everyone about that brand new restaurant, even if there’s only five tables and we might lose our spot.
[00:11:51] Right. So the very first thing is, is it a favor that we’re asking when we ask for a referral? Yes, it is. But it’s also an opportunity for them to be an expert in something and be able to go, Hey, I know the person. Person for that. Most people, if you look at poll after poll, after poll, after poll, after poll, most people say that they would gladly refer over 80% of people say they would gladly refer for someone that is a small business that exceeded their expectations.
[00:12:25]Kris Ward: Okay. Hold on, hold on. I’m going to slow you down because I want to unpack you for a minute. I’m having a big aha moment here. Okay. So this is fantastic. Cause I have read the books. I have, you know, since I opened my business like 14 years ago, this has come up. Right. And I think I am having a really big aha moment here.
[00:12:44] And you broke it down so beautifully because I do know I’ve got things, videos. You know, post on LinkedIn and people say, oh my gosh, Kris, you changed my life. I got my life back. This is amazing. I cannot believe it. Right. So I do get those. That’s why I do what I do because business should be fun. It should support your life, not consume it.
[00:13:03] So I know. We’re not being arrogant, but being realistic that this is going to make you fall a lot back in love your business. You’ll get your life back. Your income will increase. Your hours will decrease on average, our clients get back 25 hours a week within the first month. So instead of me thinking about that, I’m asking for referral.
[00:13:24] I really am it’s so you’re right. Like if I know something is really great restaurants in LA, I’m not thinking about the restaurant. I’m thinking about how many people would love me because I sent them there.
[00:13:32]Annie Ruggles: Yes. And refer for refer. If you are feeling uneven in the energetic balance of this transaction, ask them who they’re looking for in their world.
[00:13:44] Right. I would really love, you know, tell connection to, and please be specific. What I was going to say about the 80% is the 80% drops to 20% of people that actually refer. And these are ballpark numbers, but they really are right in that range. Why? Because of the. Asked or they weren’t asked with specifics.
[00:14:03] So make it a part of an easier conversation to your previous point, Kris, everybody’s busy, but how long does it take to send a LinkedIn message that isn’t a cold email LinkedIn message to someone you’re already connected to and say, Hey, you are sincerely on my mind today. Thank you so much for that testimonial.
[00:14:22] You sent me two weeks ago. If I could ask another favor, I need another Kris. I want to be on another known quick business podcast. Who can you connect me to? And also while I’m at it, I saw your post that you’re looking for a plumber, my uncles in the area. Let me see who he knows. Right? So you can respond in kind within the same Dan transaction if you need to.
[00:14:47] But what we’re doing when we ask to be referred is we’re asking for an introduction to a wider network. Also that could be the invitation to bring the person we’re talking to deeper into our world as well.
[00:15:03]Kris Ward: Okay. That’s spectacular because I do, you were all about what we call super toolkits and compressing your work.
So we’re in execution mode 60% of the time. So I do have a process for, and you’ll see this after you’re on the show and you know, there’s going to be a followup thing and say, Hey, oh my gosh, this is great. Would you be kind enough to give me a LinkedIn review? And I’ll be giving you one great, but you’re right.
[00:15:23] Then I should have it, my process to follow up three weeks later and stay connected and say, Hey, also it would be fantastic. If you could introduce me to someone like blah, blah, blah. And then I do have this network spreadsheet where I do like to connect to other people and get them on other shows. But this relationship I’m starting with now.
[00:15:42] I’ve got like maybe two touch points after I deal with you and I’m ruining it all for you act surprised. So you’re going to get a follow up video that I do, and then you’ll get a request on LinkedIn. And then I’m going to give you one and I promise to do it now. Always do, but you’re right. This could be a whole nother funnel is the wrong word, but I give like five other touch points that come a weeks later asking for things and giving things.
[00:16:04]Annie Ruggles: And those touch points could be enjoyable if your guests to refill. Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. Because one of my heroes, Pam slim, who wrote escape from cubicle nation and body of work, her newest book is called the Widest Net. And it’s really about building an ecosystem. Okay around your clients and your prospects.
[00:16:28] When you’re asking for connections and you’re willing to connect, you are embracing that prospect. Maybe they’ve already paid you. Maybe they’re a graduated client. Maybe they’ll never pay you. Maybe it’s your uncle, the dentist to all this. Kris. I love you so much. You’re my favorite niece. What can I do for you?
[00:16:46] Thanks uncle Henry. I’m looking for podcast guests who can speak to leadership in a new way in under 20 minutes. And I’d prefer if they were women of color. Cool. That gives us Glen, Henry, something really specific to do. Right. I love that. You’re peppering it in to follow up. Can I offer one more time when it’s really easy to ask for referrals?
[00:17:12] This is my favorite thing to teach people when it comes to testimonials. And when it comes to referrals, chase the compliment. When people are already opening their mouth and opening their hearts to tell you about you. It’s a very easy ask to go. This is the most gorgeous thing I’ve ever heard. You are blowing my mind right now.
[00:17:34] I’m so touched. Would you mind telling two people this, or could I post it on my website? The compliment because that’s not a code shift, right? They’re not saying, okay, well we need to look report over report. Okay. We are looking at a 3% growth and then, Hey, by the way, not to stop you build, but could I get a referral?
[00:17:56] No. When bill goes, Kris, you have exceeded every expectation. Thank you so much. Can I quote you on that?
[00:18:07]Kris Ward: That’s interesting to me too, because we’re all again about systems and processes that are super toolkit. And I can’t tell you how many years flew by that I had my business like painfully. I’m about to give you an idea that I think is a great one, but I wish I had got it 12 years earlier and it was I’m in calls with my clients and it’s on zoom and they say something like, oh my gosh, this is unbelievable.
[00:18:30] Like one client came back from holidays and she said, Kris, this is nuts. I usually takes me months to recover. And she said, I’ve got like 80 hours worth of work done in one week. And it wasn’t stressful at all, but here’s the thing now in the process, after every coaching call, then my team I’m like, oh, we’ve got a win here.
[00:18:47] We’ve got a compliment. And they clip that video. Right. And before it’s just like going, oh, that’s a nice, thank you. Yes. Now it’s part of our process. Right. So excellent. Okay, perfect.
[00:19:00 ]Annie Ruggles: And if you have them in front of you. It’s so easy to ask for permission and secure that permission in the moment. I love that detail, you know, the 4% growth. Can I write that down? Can I put your initials done?
[00:19:11 ]Kris Ward: Yeah. We, even back to systems processes, we get them to sign at thing like often throughout the coaching process, you may say nice things about us. Can you sign this disclosure? And we can use them right. Okay. That was worth it. I mean, oh my gosh. I hope you guys are driving.
[00:19:27] Pull over and take notes. Okay. That is spectacular. So let’s dive from kind of like, I don’t know if it’s the opposite or similar, how to handle sales objections here and here I’ll throw the ball so you can hit it out of the park. I, if somebody says here’s one of my things, if somebody says, you know, let me think about it.
[00:19:50] I don’t push because I think you’re just trying to get off this call and you don’t have the gumption to say, this is not a good fit for you right now. So to me it doesn’t mean anything. I will follow up on my sales up, follow up process with some video testimonials or whatever, but I don’t handle the objections.
[00:20:09] I mean, if they give me objection, like, well, you know what, that’s more money than I thought, well, let me explain why this is going to save you money and it pays for itself. And it truly does. But if they give me the plate, well, let me think about it. Then I peace and love, man. Have a good life.
[00:20:24]Annie Ruggles: Well, you follow up, would you more than most people. So I’m glad to hear that you follow up.
[00:20:31]Kris Ward: I get half a point. Everybody keeps score.
[00:20:34]Annie RugglesYou got a full point for having follow-up. You got a half a point for having followers and half a point for protocol, but if I can offer an upgrade, if someone says, let me think about it.
[00:20:51] Let’s make sure we know what they are trying to think over so that we don’t leave. unanswered questions only are in our follow-up materials. We send what they need and not just a bunch more noise. Right. Okay. So I love that you’re handling financial objections like you said, or any other thing, but I get a lot of, I need to get back to.
[00:21:17] Stuff for a variety of reasons. And the one thing I want to follow up for is assuming that an objection is a future no. Now, sometimes people are trying to get off the call. Understandable. Absolutely. But when we’re building rapport and we’re building trust on everything, I want to make it very, very clear to the client that we are deciding together, whether or not we think we’re a good fit.
[00:21:42] So if they are not thinking that we’re a good fit. They feel more entitled Tom, to tell me that because I darn well, I’m going to tell them if they’re not a fit for me. Right. But one thing when they go, let me think it over. I will respond to that with no problem. No pressure. Are there any questions right now that are just eating in your brain that are really unclear?
[00:22:08] They say yes or no. I say, will you be discussing this with another decider, maybe it’s their boss. Maybe it’s a friend, maybe it’s their mentor. Maybe it’s their spouse. Who knows if they say yes, I say, well, what kind of data will they want in order to really understand this from their perspective? Or if they say, you know, I’m just not sure yet I need some time to chew on it.
I say, are you a person who is comforted by social proof? I have clients you can speak to, if that would help.
[00:22:38]Kris Ward: Hold on. That is a good sentence. Everybody. Hold on, hold on. Are you a person comforted by social proof that that is crafted. Okay. Yeah, because you’re letting me know I got tons of it and that comfort it is very soothing like that. That is some ninja sales wording right there.
[00:22:58]Annie Ruggles: That’s the connection between what we were just talking about. I have clients that are willing to talk to my testimonials. The only way or sorry to my prospects. The only way I got that is by asking if I never asked them for a testimonial or a referral, because I didn’t want to put them out.
[00:23:16] They don’t even think people calling them on the phone. On behalf of me after paying me for several months is putting them out there, happy to do it. So I could only say that by the grace of my clients, but also because I asked him, they said, Right. Yeah. I don’t leave loose ends as much as possible on the calls because maybe they really just do need more time.
[00:23:46]Kris Ward: Oh, my gosh. Okay. All right. I’m just, that was, that was beautiful. I know, I know the power of good copy and that has a lot of power to it. So you’re being generous and kind, and you’re such a thoughtful leader to us. May I tweak this a little bit more railway, whatever. Put the niceties aside and like, like let’s chop these vegetables up slice and dice it and tell us where our biggest mistakes with objections and how can we just plow through this?
[00:24:14] Like, we don’t want to waste your time. I shouldn’t say that we don’t want it. It’s not a waste of your time. We want to get all the juice out of it. We can with the short time we have with you. So let’s just go in.
[00:24:23]Annie Ruggles: Alright. No, niceties. The vast, vast, vast majority of sales training is doing you dirty by telling you that the best thing you can do when you get an objection is argue it never, ever, ever, ever argue an objection.
[00:24:40] Even if it’s aligned, it is true to them in that moment. So if you’re saying, oh, well, I mean, you could come up with the money. It’s not really that expensive. My competitors are more expensive. You are invalidating the experience of the person you’re talking to. If someone says I need to talk to my husband, it is very common sales training to go.
[00:25:02] You’re an independent woman. Come on, stand on your own. Two feet, sister, number one before. Sister, you don’t know me. Number two, if I want to talk to my husband, I’m going to talk to my husband and it has nothing to do with me being the boss, B I T C H of my company. I want a second opinion and I’m going to have one will not invalidate my decision making process by arguing my objection.
[00:25:25] Instead, what I want you to do is distill it down to the kernel of truth. If they say it’s expensive, it is an investment. Let me go again over the itemized list of what you’re receiving for that or what you can expect to get out of that. And the fact that this is a risk-free purchase through a guarantee. If they say I need to talk to my husband, what I want you to say is cool.
[00:25:48] What’s his name? Do you want me to talk to him? Yeah, that motivates them. If they say I need a little bit more time, my mom just died and I can’t really do this right now. You say, I am so sorry to hear about your mother. Would it be appropriate for me to follow up in two weeks? And then you send a card saying I’m here when you need me, but absolutely no rush.
[00:26:07] Thank you for taking my call in your time of grief. That is what you do. Lean into the objection, not out of it. You are supposed to be forming a bond with that prospect that goes into the lifetime value of a customer. You are supposed to be accruing their trust. If you’re arguing with them from the jump you’re saying, you know, less than I do, wouldn’t be so smart of you to hire me. And that’s not the kind of business I teach because that’s not the kind of business I want.
[00:26:35Kris Ward: You bring up a really good point because I think you’re.. I love your being direct and bold and let’s, I’m all about SAS. Get to it. Right. We don’t don’t beat around the Bush, but I think what’s happening for them. For most of us.
[00:26:47] We might not have seen that as arguing. What do think, oh, I’m defending my position. Like, no, we’re not that expensive, but you’re right. I now I’m being defensive about being defensive and it’s a combative situation said moving forward with you, we’re giving a push and a pull.
[00:27:03]Annie Ruggles: There are people in this world for whom an egg McMuffin is inaccessibly expensive and people in this world who will shoot themselves into space for fun.
Yeah. I don’t know what other people can afford. We don’t know what other people value. We are not in their wallets and they’re not in ours. So the word expensive is not ours to apply, nor is it ours to argue. If I say something is expensive, it’s expensive. Cause I say it’s expensive, but what I really need to convince them of is not the expense. It’s the value that necessitates the expense.
[00:27:43]Kris Ward: Oh, my gosh. Okay. All right. We’re coming. We were at the sales mountain boys. We are speaking to Buddha at the sales mountain, all hail Buddha. All right. Keep going. My friend, I’m not going to slow you down.
[00:27:58]Annie Ruggles: No, I had finished it. If you find yourself, I love that you use that word defending you don’t need to defend anything.
You don’t even need to justify anything that implies someone is arguing with you. And the objection is just a indication that something has not been fully answered yet. Right? That is it. And that is not just from me. That is from the king of sales Grant Cardone, who is basically my fricking opposite. He said, if someone gives you a price, objection, they are not yet convinced of the value a hundred percent true, but why wouldn’t that be true of all objections?
[00:28:35] Any objection you get is just someone sharing uncertainty. Right. That’s it. If we treat it like they’re taking an exit off the highway and we bail before we can get rejected, we’re just saying, oh, I’m sorry. You have a question time for me to go out to lunch. It’d be the exact same thing as if we were doing a book signing and someone came up and said, oh, Kris, how did you get the idea for your book?
[00:29:00] And you took a big bite of your sandwich and said, now, Yeah, they’re right there. They want to know the answer. If you don’t know what questions they still have, we can’t possibly answer them. But if we lean into their objection, not only do we answer their surface questions to your previous point about maybe they’re just trying to get off the phone by saying, let me get back to you.
[00:29:24] You might go, you know, Thank you so much for asking. I didn’t want to say this. I I’m kind of shy about this, but my husband kind of thinks that coaching is a bunch of BS. And so it’s going to be a little bit hard for me to bring this up to him. Okay. Now we’re getting somewhere now. I know what the real objection is.
[00:29:42] If someone goes, you know, I just had to put my dog down last week. That was a $3,000 vet bill. I wasn’t expecting I’m so embarrassed when I got on your call, I could afford your program. And now I can’t because I just had to put my dog down. Well, I think goodness, I asked instead of just going into the, come on Kris, you could afford this day.
[00:30:02]Kris Ward: I think what you’re saying is very powerful is a couple of things. First of all, I noticed your language is very, I don’t want to use the word soft, but it’s very inclusive. It’s, there’s, there’s a kindness to it. Like, okay, it is a bit of investment, you know, let me itemize the list of what you’ll get. So we’re moving forward with this positivity and gentleness instead of, you know, dickering or hashing out.
[00:30:26] Parking lot of a car sales lot, trying to figure out like, no, you get this, you get that. So instead of debating it, right. So I think then too, if what you’re saying is if you ask them where their position is on it, and then they say something and now you’re arguing that. You’ve just trained them. Well, don’t say the next thing, which not only does it not bring you closer to the sale, but more than anything, you’re lacking a lot of information that you could tweak as you move forward with your next sales opportunity. So the information is worth even more than that particular sale.
[00:31:00]Annie Ruggles: ABud Jillian billion trillion percent, the best copy for FAQ’s comes out of objection, handling conversations.
[00:31:12]Kris Ward: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. We have a few minutes left. What’s one of the, you know, what do you not want to leave here today without telling us that we need to know?
[00:31:22]Annie Ruggles: Do not let… I know. Hmm. What do I want to make sure everybody does? You know, on that topic of handling objections and sales and every possible other thing, when it comes to these calls. Remember, if you are on someone’s calendar, they have given you their most precious currency already, already before they’ve even given you a dime, they’ve given you their time and, and, you know, miss win the hour, win the day.
[00:32:01] Time is fricking precious. If you give me any of it, that is a gift. And so what I want people to do on those discovery calls, those intro calls and yes, even the things that you call sales calls is solve a problem for that person. One way you can solve a problem for that person is promised to introduce them to someone and then follow through, oh, you’re doing this in your business.
[00:32:24] Do you have a great printer? I know a great printer, small shop. They’ll give you great prices, but remind me after this call to get back to you, I’ve already proven my value in your life in a genuine way. Before I talked about money being exchanged, right? It’s not about hiding the money. My prices are on my fricking website because I don’t want people to have to dig.
[00:32:44] And that is my choice, right? It’s not about waiting to bring up the money part. But wait to bring up the money part until you’ve solved a problem, because then you could say, let’s keep solving problems together. The price for that is this. It sets you up for the easiest sale ever when they already know that you are pulling for them to get even more than the value that you’re offering.
[00:33:10]Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah, that is powerful. So that is interesting too, because I have this, I work really hard on, you know, maintain because your network is your net worth. And I learned, oh, again, many years ago, you make these connections and you get busy and then you’d, oh, I’d stay connected with you. Say on LinkedIn, all of a sudden I make a new connection.
[00:33:29] You get pushed out the bandwidth. All of a sudden, I realize I haven’t talked to you in a while. So I thought, oh no, I’m rotating relationships instead of maintaining them. So then I made this spreadsheet and was really clear and adding things to it, always trying to nurture that and connecting people in my case, I’ll get them on podcasts or whatever.
[00:33:44] But having said that, I now realize these are people that maybe I was on their show, or maybe they did something for me, or there’s this established relationship. But you’re right. I’m not feeding the front end. If you met with me and you didn’t become a client, I’m not saying this to rejection, but that you don’t move so far.
[00:34:06] In my process, you didn’t move to the receiving gifts on the other side thing, I’m giving those to people who were my client or who I was on their show. Like there was already an exchange of whatever right. Of kindness, but you’re right. They don’t have to, if you’re giving, then they don’t have to earn it.
[00:34:22] So they may not ever buy for me, but they deserve the same generosity. If I’m giving them I’m giving, I’m not giving, I’m not giving. Cause I got, I already got something. Right, right. Okay.
[00:34:36]Annie Ruggles: You’re not giving the present to watch them open it. We all love to do that. I freaking love to do that.
Right. But here’s the thing. If you follow that method of not, and I’m not talking about over delivering and I’m not talking about being, you know, masochistically, selfish or selfless. No, I’m not talking about that at all. But if we give first. And ask later, but do ask if we give first, then the people that will never become our clients could still refer us, could give testimony to us, could still be a connector for us.
[00:35:09] Maybe they’ll never hire you, but they’ll darn well, retreat retweet this and every podcast episode you put out, right? So take the extra step to thank someone for their time. And that gratitude will always come back to you somehow. So.
[00:35:25] Kris Ward: Oh my gosh, what a powerful way to wrap this up. Oh, my heavens time flies with you so fast. We could have turned this into like a four-part series. Okay. Any weird, do people find more of your brilliance?
[00:35:38]Annie Ruggles: Well, please, if you want more of me. Ears, go check out my podcast, Too Legitimate To Quit, instantly actionable small business strategies with a pop culture spin. It is actionable. We give homework every single week, so you always know what to do. And beyond that, if you’re looking for me or the non sleazy sales academy, go to Anniepruggles.com or hit me up on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn.
[00:36:04]Kris Ward: Gosh. Excellent. Okay, everyone else, we will see you on the next episode. And until then, Win The Hour Win The Day. Thanks so much. Bye. [00:36:14]END