Gavin Bell gives us the real deal on the world of Facebook Advertising. This is a no-nonsense frank discussion that will really open your eyes to any confusion you may have had about Facebook advertising.
-the biggest mistake entrepreneurs make before they even get started
-why you shouldn’t use Facebook advertising
-how to get results that make sense for your business
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Gavin Bell Podcast
[00:01:00]Kris Ward: Hey. Hello, Gavin. How are you?
[00:01:24]Gavin Bell: I’m very well. Thanks. How are you?
[00:01:27]Kris Ward: I’m recovering, my first some funky thing. My wifi went down like six minutes ago and I have this life obsession of. It makes me sick to think somebody might be waiting for me. And also just like, you don’t know me, so it’s like, oh, she can get her ass here.
[00:01:42] Right. So I was like, oh my God, what’s happening? And I’m hard wired, so we couldn’t figure it out. So I was telling the person who has helped me talk quicker. We don’t have time to think so. So here I am. Okay. So what we’re going to do, if you don’t mind, I’m just gonna whip you through the, the preferred seating program.
[00:02:01] Part of it. And I’m just going to hold on, see if I can get my earphones here. It’s not working either, whatever who cares. So what I usually do is separate intro meeting, no biggie. It’s just so that I can find the interview before the interview. All right. So my audience are entrepreneurs that have been in business at least five years.
[00:02:21] And what they constantly tell me is they love that they listen to the show and then they can go try something or look at something versus transformation and learning and all that stuff. Mindset. That’s not where we’re at. So with you being the guru of Facebook ads, all that stuff, what, what I don’t want to get into too much, because it might be eliminating a lot of people who may not be at that point yet, but what I want to talk about is I guess the umbrella of it, if we could on the misnomers, like, so for example, you know, why don’t I stop talking? Why don’t you give me an idea and we’ll narrow it down.
[00:03:05]Gavin Bell: Yeah. So what, what level of..
[00:03:09]Kris Ward: Are you on picture or did you freeze?
[00:03:11]Gavin Bell: Oh, oh, it’s frozen.
[00:03:13]Kris Ward: Okay. I was like, oh, your picture. I was like, your picture looks so real. When I first looked at it, it might be me again. Who knows. Although, anyway, No, you’re, you’re still there. I thought that looks so real. It was a picture, but is this a video podcasts? Like, do you want to use the video or afterwards, but if it’s, if it’s a deal breaker, like if you can’t, oh, there you are. If you go, well.
[00:03:38]Gavin Bell: I’ve got, I use just this camera, but my, my fancy one seems to be playing up, so let’s see if I can get working. And then it’s definitely, it’s definitely might say.
[00:03:53] Oh, is that right? There we go. That seems to be,
[00:04:03]Gavin Bell: Do you hear and see me?
[00:04:05]Kris Ward: I can see you, but you froze again.
[00:04:06]Gavin Bell: Ooh. I can’t hear you anymore.
[00:04:07]Kris Ward: Hold on. Let me hold on one sec. Hold on. Can you hear me now?
[00:04:16]Gavin Bell: Nope. Still not.
[00:04:19]Kris Ward: Oh, the hearing is me hearing anything. I hear anything. Can you hear me now, now? No, sorry. Oh, okay.
[00:04:39] It wasn’t me. I was like, oh no, it’s me.
[00:04:41]Gavin Bell: Okay. So you have frozen again, right? I’m going to use the, I’m going to use this camera instead. Yeah. I don’t know why that one’s not playing up today. So what level of, I guess this is a two part question. What level of sophistication are the audience? And then what level of like tech do you want to get into. If we’re talking like ads.
[00:05:09]Kris Ward: So I love the, the big part about is me learning. Cause they really love that. Cause to ask questions. So I guess, I guess I would start broad and we could go deeper. So I guess it would say is, you know, here’s what I’ll tell you my perception of Facebook ads. And then it might tell you a starting point since I’m going to be the one asking the question. I think there’s a lot of misinformation around it.
[00:05:32] And it’s a bit of a big mystery, and I’m willing to say that in the show, and then you get people where it’s like, okay, at what point should I be spending money on ads? And how do I dive into this? Because there is the, well, I only have a small ad budget because I’m starting something and I don’t know what I’m doing.
[00:05:46] So then I can’t afford it. Big, expensive guy to pay for that. So you’re not going to pay 70,000 bucks a month so that you can do $200 with the ads. But I don’t have a thousand dollars to put on ads that everyone says like, Vegas, you can’t control it. And we don’t know what’s happening there. So if I spend a thousand on you and a thousand on him, it seems like a horse race, a gamble to me.
[00:06:07] And then you don’t get in to get any experience. You just shut the door and go, well, now I’ve totally backed away from it.
[00:06:14]Gavin Bell: Yeah. Okay, cool. So, I mean, if that’s the case, then we could, we can talk about. Like beginner strategies for doing it yourself. We could talk about when is maybe a good time to outsource it to somebody.
[00:06:32] Some, one of the topics that I’m talking about quite a lot right now is like the biggest mistakes I see when I, when I go in and audit ad accounts, we can talk about that perhaps.
[00:06:42]Kris Ward: Okay. That sounds great. That sounds great. Okay, awesome. Now let’s see if we’ve got now my ear buds and trauma, your beds.
[00:06:49] One more time. See what happens here, or you can say we spent this time. I know. I was like, oh, it’s your ear bugs. We can say we spent an hour. And then two of his finally could see and hear each other. Okay. Let’s see. Pop, pop, pop you say hello? Hello? I don’t know. I’m still not there. Okay. Screw that. Okay.
[00:07:17]Gavin Bell: Sometimes airports do that. Doesn’t it. Yeah. So whereabouts in the world are you?
[00:07:28] Kris Ward: I am in Canada, Canada. No, I do this because I’m on the east coast of Canada. That’s my case kids. And where are you?
[00:07:37]Gavin Bell: Edinburgh in Scotland.
[00:07:39] Kris Ward: There you go. Okay. I can close. I went to England. I almost got there.
[00:07:44]Gavin Bell: Cool. You’ll have to make the trip further north next time.
[00:07:47]Kris Ward: Yes, it sounds like. Cause it’s beautiful. Okay. So let me go through my, okay. Reread the bio case. Did we got Gavin bell on make sure I say your name, right?
[00:08:00] Sure. Let me get this coding. Perfect. Do you guys, I’m gonna, we monkeyed around and me being the monkey. Not you. Okay. What we’re going to do here is okay.
[00:08:21] Okay, we’re going to get a little selfie.
[00:08:35] Perfect. Okay. Make sure names,put this back.
[00:08:45]Gavin Bell: Is this a checklist you’ve got going on?
[00:07:48]Kris Ward: I do because I’m all about SYSTEMs. That’s a good point. Let me just tell you really super quickly what I do, just because I’ll ask you questions. So you, you, you, I want it to over explain it in the interview. So what I’m all about is, your business should support your life instead of consuming it.
[00:09:03] So we help people create their WIN team, their what is next team so they can get onto what is next. And, we also are known for our signature super toolkits, which is really how to compress work. So most entrepreneurs are at what we call in the web of admin, 80, 90% of the time. But we are passionate about what we created as a 60/40 formula.
[00:09:24] You should be in 60% creation, 40% admin, because you always have to get to that next thing, whatever that next thing is for you. Next project, next presentation. So yeah, we’re all about efficiencies. Not having to think, move on and, and your team is, should also be set up no matter how small or big they are.
[00:09:41] So that their time gets compressed so that they have creation mode versus everyone just chasing paper. Right. So that’s a big thing.
[00:09:48]Gavin Bell: Yeah, I like that a lot.
[00:09:51]Kris Ward: Yeah. Thanks. Okay. We’re going to do that full screen microphone check.
[00:10:06] Capstone Casey. You know who my human is. All right, we’re ready to go and have some fun. So it’s about 20 minutes, 20 ish minutes. So what time is it there in Scotland? You’re both, I think five hours ahead of us.
[00:10:23]Gavin Bell: It’s 10 plus five.
[00:10:25]Kris Ward: Oh, okay. There you go. All right. Okay. Here we go.
[00:10:36]Kris Ward: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day. And I am your lucky host Kris Ward. And I am lucky because we’ve got another amazing guest here for you today. Gavin Bell is a director of Yetter, an award-winning lead generation agency that helps brands across the world to scale through Facebook ads.
[00:10:55] His work has been featured in the likes of virgin.com, Huffington post, entrepreneur on fire. Kissmetrics and social media examiner. We are friends with Michael Stelzner. He has been on the show. Gavin. So welcome to the show Gavin.
[00:11:09]Gavin Bell: Thanks so much for having me, Kris. I’m excited.
[00:11:11]Kris Ward: Okay. So I’m going to try to grab everyone’s attention real quick because listen, when we talk about Facebook ads, for most of us, myself included seems like a little bit of ‘Hey.
[00:11:21] Are you feeling lucky? We’re going to Vegas.’ It seems to me like this big dark force that you have to, you know, you have to pay to play and you have to have a lot to play. So my first question, Gavin, as we dive into this is going to be like, you know, where do we start? Because my understanding is like, oh, you know, can I afford to hire someone for Facebook ads?
[00:11:44] And if I put all my money on the hired person who, you know, needs to be paid, then I have no money to experiment with a budget that I don’t even know what I’m doing yet. So it’s almost like, I feel like you’re shut down before you get started.
[00:11:58]Gavin Bell: Yeah. It’s a really good point. And I think what we need to do to answer that question is actually go a few steps back before we start thinking about Facebook ads.
[00:12:07] Cause I think what happens is as business owners, as we, you know, we’ve got our entrepreneurs, we’ve got shiny object syndrome. We’re always looking for, you know, what the next thing you talked about and. What that leads to happen is we will see people getting crazy results on Facebook. And we think that we can do it.
[00:12:25] And then we think that we need to start advertising on Facebook so we can get results like that. And when we start to think like that, and we start running Facebook ads, actually the reality is we’ve probably not proved the groundwork in that we need to in order to get those levels of results. So there’s a few things that we need to look at.
[00:12:40] As a business for us before we start advertising on Facebook. So those are things like, first and foremost, do you have a business that people actually want? So have you got proof of concept? If you have products and services that actually get people the results that they want, that’s like the number one checklist, because if you don’t and you’re spending money on ads, then you’re kind of gambling.
[00:13:01] You’re going to Vegas. Like you say, because we don’t actually know whether people want the thing that we have.
[00:13:06]Kris Ward: Let me jump in here for a sec. And I’m jumping a lot because I want to unpack your brilliance. So of course, as an entrepreneur, I’m going to think, oh, I got something that people want and then a newer entrepreneur.
[00:13:17] Cause we all went through those growing pains. You might think, oh, I’m just not in front of the right people or I have to get in front of more people so Facebook ads would change that. So I think in my mind when you’re talking right now, I’m comparing it to, you know, when you think, oh, I just need press. Or I need to get on a podcast or I need to be on a TV show.
[00:13:36] And then if all these people did see or hear you and were interested and they went online and then you weren’t set up properly, that funnel, that publicity path for you, won’t serve you. And it’s not the publicity it’s you weren’t set up properly.
[00:13:50]Gavin Bell: Exactly. So I would much rather people it’s a slightly different story if you’re a funded startup, for example, and you’ve got a budget to spend, to get proof of concept, but I would much rather 90% of the people listening to this would focus on getting results for their customers.
[00:14:07] Selling some products organically before they start spending money on ads, because as a business, cash is king and I would rather, we get some proof before we start spending the money on it.
[00:14:20]Kris Ward: Okay. So if I’m saying all right, I’m, you know, we actually are. Working on CRA we’ve just really been diving into the Facebook group community we had before I neglected it.
[00:14:30] But we’re guns ablazing now, we’ve got all these dynamic things going on there. So a rookie mistake would make, would be like, oh, okay, I’m starting a group. I should run ads. But what you’re saying is, ‘Hey, you should be doing the groundwork, you know, hitting the pavement. So to speak, networking one at a time, grassroots, get that group going.
[00:14:49] And when you’ve got proof of concept and you’re doing well there. That’s when you put some muscle sort of some gasoline in the car, but you gotta make sure the car is built. Am I hearing correctly?
[00:15:00]Gavin Bell: Exactly, exactly that advertising on any platform? Well, amplify what’s already happening. So if you’ve got a product or service that sucks, or if you have that, just kind of another point that I think that people need to have in place for us is if you don’t have the ability to sell somebody or your website, doesn’t convert very well.
[00:15:19] By spending money on ads. You’re just going to amplify that suckiness or it even more. But if you’ve got something that does work and you’ve got that proof of concept, then advertising can amplify the good stuff.
[00:15:31]Kris Ward: You know, first of all, I love the technical term sucky, everybody write that down. Okay. So I appreciate that.
[00:15:36] I like tech terms, we’re learning Facebook tech terms. Now, you know, when you said right now, this is going to sound absolutely ridiculous, but we’re here to learn. When you said, ‘do you have the money to do advertising? This is going to sound really silly when I say this out loud.’ But when you said that, I’m like, oh my gosh, this really is official advertising.
[00:15:56] And we would be okay. You know, thinking of that, if we went to go and pay for print ads or things like that, but I think we’re Facebook is so part of our day to day interactions, you almost think of like, oh, I’m on Facebook. It’s almost like pulling back the curtain and they’ll just see me on there more not understanding it is an advertising pathway versus sort of.
[00:16:15] You know, you think I’m here and I just need more people to know I’m here. Like I think, I think we minimize the significance of the ads part and lean more into the Facebook friend kind of deal. So, okay. So that’s an awakening. So what you’re saying is, ‘Hey, get your ducks in a row, make sure you’re growing, whatever you’re doing, you’re doing well. And you see the results organically before you even think about spending money.’
[00:16:41]Gavin Bell: Exactly. That.
[00:16:42]Kris Ward: Okay. Now this is your job though, right? You’re a Facebook ads guy. So I guess you understand that. Look, it makes my job a lot harder. It’s not going to be fun or my results aren’t going to be there. If you’re not set up properly before you come to me.
[00:16:56]Gavin Bell: Exactly that. I mean, if we’re working or, you know, talking to clients, we make sure because I, you know, I’ve been in this business for a long time and I’ve made the mistake of working with clients that don’t have their ducks out. And what ends up happening is they don’t get the level of results that they need.
[00:17:12] Now. They might be getting results from ads. But maybe not at the level that they need. So for example, it might be costing them too much money to get a sale, or they might be, you know, another common problem is they might get too many leads, but the leads aren’t high quality. And so they’re spending too much time and resources trying to service those leads.
And not actually getting to the customers and that takes all of their time, which then again means that Facebook isn’t working for them as a platform.
[00:17:43]Kris Ward: And then we blame Facebook and you.
[00:17:44]Gavin Bell: Exactly that.
[00:17:46]Kris Ward:Okay. So give us some of the biggest mistakes people make on Ads. And then, ‘when do we go from, okay, I’m feeling stronger with the ads to say, look that Gavin guy, he’s all that in the bag of chips and they need to talk to him.’
[00:18:00]Gavin Bell: Okay. So if we’ve got all of the, you know, the, the ducks lined up and we’re advertising on Facebook then, so I’ve done hundreds of adequate audits and I’ve spoken on various stages and I’ve asked two questions or every time I stand on stage, I ask two questions, which is one who here has tried Facebook ads.
[00:18:19] Literally every hand will go up and then ask the second question, which is who here has had success with Facebook ads. Literally all the hands bar, maybe a couple of the bag will go down and by diving in at gains to try and figure out, I found that there’s two common problems that people have when it comes to advertising are two mistakes that people tend to make.
[00:18:42] And actually I’m going to include a third one in this based on just what you said there in the past just a minute ago, which was that oftentimes people look at face because a friend thing, as opposed to an actual advertising platform. When people do that, oftentimes that means that they go and they hit that boost button and spend money boosting posts here, there, and everywhere, as opposed to using Facebook as an actual advertising platform and going through the proper means of creating an ad campaign.
[00:19:11] Now, just to kind of say tangent that well, then if you use the boost button and that is the height of your advertising on Facebook. I can almost guarantee you that you’re not getting the results that you want. And the reason for that is because when you hit boost on Facebook, you’re actually telling Facebook to optimize for likes, comments and shares.
[00:19:32] You’re not telling Facebook to optimize for link clicks or conversions, somebody purchasing something on your website or, or downloading a lead magnet. So you’re telling Facebook. Something other than what you probably want to achieve. And I think that comes from, from people looking at it as a friend platform, as opposed to an actual advertising channel.
[00:19:54]Kris Ward: So hold on, let me stop for one sec. So, so the boost thing you think when you put this out there, if I hit boost, spend 10 bucks, okay. I’m going to get all these reviews, but even of course, we’re always, we’re always putting a link somewhere into Facebook. So, but you’re saying even if everybody sees it, it’s not going to generate an increase on that Opt-in.
[00:20:11]Gavin Bell: Like, I mean, it might be because you’re getting more eyes, right? The Facebook, the Facebook machine, the Facebook engine is, so it has mass amounts of data on everyone, as we all know. And so knows that, for example, Kris, you’re most likely to click on an ad and buy, Product in a health food e-commerce site, whereas I’m more likely to click on a football than buy something.
[00:20:40] And so when we create a campaign, we’re telling Facebook based on how we set the campaign up, what we want them to optimize for. Right. When we click on boost, we’re not optimizing, we’re not telling Facebook that we want clicks or purchases. We’re telling Facebook likes, comments and shares.
[00:20:58]Kris Ward: Okay. All right. Sorry. Continue. Okay. All wise stuff. Okay. So the boost, you’re not getting your bang for your buck there. It’s not a cheap hit. It’s not serving you.
[00:21:07]Gavin Bell: No. So that’s, that’s the kind of the bonus mistake that you see, but the two main mistakes I see people make, are incorrect targeting or no targets, sorry, testing people, aren’t testing properly and the incorrect campaign setup.
[00:21:22] So let’s unpack those a little bit. So. A Facebook ad campaign when sold properly should be like a scientific experiment. That’s the way I like to explain to them. So we have a product, we have a service, we have an offer, we’ve got something that we want and bring, we want to take out to more people, get more eyes on it.
[00:21:42] That’s all well and good. When we create an ad campaign and this applies really for any platform is we’ve got this offer and we create a Facebook ad campaign. And we say, we want to target people that are aged X that live in Y location. And they’re interested in Zed. That’s a hypothesis of that point that we think that our message will resonate with that person, but we don’t actually know whether that message will resonate with that person.
[00:22:12] So when we create a Facebook ad campaign, what we want to do, set it up in a way where we’re testing. Various different things. So we’re testing different audiences. So we might have a, let’s say we’ve got, we sell soccer shirts as an e-commerce site. We might want to test, you know, people that are interested in soccer, various people that are interested in football, various people that are interested in baseball as an example.
[00:22:39] And then we can see once the ad starts running, which audience performs best. And in my experience of auditing. You know, hundreds of accounts, most people aren’t doing that level of testing. They’re just setting up one campaign, one ad with one message to one audience hoping for the best. And that’s, you know, hope is not a good business strategy.
[00:23:01]Kris Ward: Yeah. ‘Hope’ everybody write that down. Hope is not a good business strategy. Right? Okay. Sure sure.
[00:23:07]Gavin Bell: Then the next mistake I see is incorrect campaign setup, which is it’s actually kind of linked to the testing part, which is when people set up a campaign, you know, they might go for the boost or they might set up a campaign where they’re looking for conversions.
[00:23:23] But there are, they’ve set the campaign up to optimize for traffic. For example, people to click the link, but not actually buy, or they might not do creative testing. So like we want to test our audiences. We also want to test our messages. We want to test our images or videos. And so a perfect Facebook ad campaign should look like a Christmas tree.
[00:23:46] You should have, you know your campaign at the top. Maybe you say 30 audiences within and then within each audience, you might have say three or four different ads. So it’s shaped like a Christmas tree. Whereas oftentimes when I go in, it might be one campaign, one ad set, one ad. And like I say, that’s just relying on luck at that point.
[00:24:06]Kris Ward: Yeah. The marketer in me knows to do the split testing on the graphics on the hook and all these different things. But I will say that I think the. The backend of Facebook, particularly ads is highly sophisticated and you know, we’re sitting there hitting buttons, like we’re in a cockpit of a plane and think eventually I’m just going to hit enough buttons and the plane will take off.
[00:24:26] Right. So, when should you know, and when should somebody say, okay, well you talked about, let’s make sure you got proof of product and you’re doing this well organically right. Now I don’t know if this is putting you on the spot. I’m not asking for prices, but what should a budget range look like?
[00:24:45] Like, all right, we’re doing this well now. And I think we’re ready to put our big boy and girl pants on and do some investing in this area. So that we do this correctly because it is, I mean, we run around and there’s all these buttons and we, you know, and then there’s all these myths about what’s happening out there with Facebook now.
[00:25:02] And somebody says this, somebody says that. So I really do think it’s a wise choice to have a meaningful relationship with a professional like you, who, by the way, You know, I see you all over the place online and you almost make this seem fun and interesting. So you do a spectacular job. I’m like, wow. He makes it seem like we could have fun doing it.
[00:25:23] And I have not seen that look on anybody else’s face when they talked about Facebook ads. So when should we pay to play after we’ve proven the marketplace, what kind of budgets should we be looking at? Like, okay, now this is when you want to get it.
[00:25:39]Gavin Bell: Yeah. So, I mean, let’s start off with a minimum budget on Facebook.
[00:25:43] So the minimum you can spend is a dollar a day. So as a bare minimum, you can spend a dollar a day on Facebook ads and for that, can you see results? Well, yeah, potentially you might see results, but you’re not going to get results at scale. It’s not going to have life-changing results. When you’re looking at hiring somebody to help, you know, there’s gonna be people at every level of budget that can help you.
[00:26:09] So you’re going to have Facebook advertising consultants, agencies that will help you from probably a road, the $250 a month mark, all the way up to $10,000 per month mark. What you’ll typically find is at the lower price range, it will be somebody that’s probably relatively new to doing this that maybe, you know, purchase a course on how to be a Facebook ads manager.
[00:26:34] And to be honest, I typically wouldn’t recommend working with somebody like that. You might get a diamond in the rocks, but 9 times out of 10.
[00:26:42]Kris Ward: This is why we’re asking Gavin. This is why we’re asking you.
[00:26:44]Gavin Bell: Yeah, it’s good. It’s, you know, 9 times out of 10 in my experience it’ll cost you more hiring that person than it would.
[00:26:51] I would get serious about look, I mean, I can tell you straight off the bat, like our minimum monthly fees is two grand a month, $2,000 a month. So you can kind of look at your advertising budget and then look at that and say, and get a rough idea when it’s. You know, we tend to start working with people when they’re spending about $5,000 a month up to 100K a month.
[00:27:19]Kris Ward: But, okay. Sorry. I hit a moment. Let me split a hundred cages in advertising. Okay. We’re not there yet, but good to know. All right.
[00:27:28]Gavin Bell: Yeah, I mean, but that, I mean, that’s a great thing about the Facebook platform is you can start at that $1 a day. And if you get it to a point where it’s working, you’re bringing in the leads or you’re bringing in the customers at profit, there’s nothing stopping you from being able to scale.
[00:27:43]Kris Ward:That’s true because if we’re making money off, it doesn’t matter how much you’re spending. Right.
[00:27:47]Gavin Bell: Exactly. And that’s a mindset shift that I always try and get our clients to be in as is, rather than looking at your ad budget as an expense. You know, oftentimes we, you know, clients will start thinking about their advertising as maybe, okay. We have $50,000 to spend in advertising for the whole year.
[00:28:05] It’s like, okay, well, let’s start with that. But if things are working well, then. We want to spend more. Right. So it’s trying to have that kind of slight thing scale. So yeah, in terms of when you should start looking at hiring someone, I would say there’s two things is when you start to maybe get to the $5,000 a month mark is probably a good point from a finance perspective, but also, take into consideration, like how a business critical is your advertising.
[00:28:33] Because if you’re somebody that is just wanting to run a little bit of ads to get some brand awareness, and most of your business comes from other sources, whatever it might be, then you could probably get away with just learning it yourself. However, slightly larger brands are spending quite a lot of money on advertising and you need somebody that’s on the pulse to be cutting edge to, you know, make changes fast. Then you’re going to want to hire someone to do it.
[00:29:02]Kris Ward: So I think what we’re doing here today, I think is really powerful because, and I said that to you, like before we started chatting, I’m like, okay, you could geek us out and give us all kinds of information that, you know, you’ve forgotten more than we’ll ever know about this topic.
[00:29:15] That’s for sure. But I think what I feel good about this conversation, it’s given some clarity about where’s the beginning and end of all this Facebook ad and the idea that you know, I think there’s this urban myth out there where, I don’t know, again, like Vegas, you just get lucky or you dabble around with it.
[00:29:33] Or if you’ve got a tech mindset, you can play around in the back end of Facebook and voila, but it really isn’t about the tech part. You know, it’s an advertising campaign and so. What you’re saying is, look, if you’re doing real, you know, if you’re really creating some movement and stuff, and even if you’ve got a group with a whole bunch of people and you just want brand awareness and play around with it yourself, because you’re not that volume if your group increases, if that’s not going to increase your income, then it’s really just brand awareness.
But when you’re launching a product, like we had the ‘Outsourcing Playbook for Busy Entrepreneurs.’ Then when you get to the point where you say, okay, yeah, we’ve got some traction here. Now we’re covering our costs.
[00:30:16] We’re doing this speech four times a year. Now we want to get serious about it and really, you know, make this a machine. Then you dive into the investment of advertising. And I think, again, this sounds ridiculous, but understanding like, you know, what position would I have been back in the day to pay for local advertisers.
[00:30:34] What was my goal? You thought about it more seriously, but I guess the accessibility of our fingertips being able to hit buttons ourselves, do you think, oh, let me play. I’m not understanding at all what we’re doing. So to me, this is very enlightening. I’m sure it’s so beyond basic for you, but I think it’s very helpful.
[00:30:53]Gavin Bell: Yeah. I mean, well, let me give you an example. So we’ve just finished up a campaign with a client who they were, they’re an equal. E-commerce store, but they were doing a giveaway of a trunk. So the ad campaign was basically a truck.
[00:31:05]Kris Ward: Trunk?
[00:30:07]Gavin Bell: A Truck.
[00:30:09]Kris Ward: That’s better than a trunk. Okay. I’m glad I clarified. So they’re giving away a truck. Okay.
[00:31:15]Gavin Bell: Yeah. So they’re giving away a truck and the way to enter the competition was you had to buy something from the store. Every $1 that you spend at the store gets you one entry to buy the truck. They came to us and they had tried running their ad. Well, this was a three-month campaign.
[00:31:31] They came to us about two weeks into the campaign and saying, ‘I’ve started the campaign myself. I tried running and myself. We did really well, like the first week, but no, the results have just dropped off a cliff. I have no idea what the ending is.’ They were spending at this point $500 a day.
[00:31:49] So quite a lot of money when you don’t really know what you’re doing. So we jumped into the campaign and we see that they’re making just like every single mistake that you can imagine, but they’re getting away with it. Or they got away with it for that first week because we’re giving away a truck for free.
[00:32:03] It’s like, cool. You know, it was a cool thing, a cool offer. So we come in, we, you know, we take over the campaign and the campaign just finished literally last week. We ended up spending around $42,000 and made them 220,000 back. If you take our fee into consideration. So let’s say $2,000 per month.
[00:32:25]Kris Ward: Excuse me, Gavin. I’m making a note; say up higher. Yeah, then. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. Sorry. I’m just making notes to myself.
[00:32:39]Gavin Bell:Yeah, like being transported our fee to them $6,000. Right. So their spend is four, two plus a six 48. They make 220 back.
[00:32:49]Kris Ward: Okay. Let me interrupt you again. As a human cause you’re a wonderful guy.
[00:32:54] You make everything seem fun. As a human though, don’t you sometimes go, oh
[00:33:02] yes. So it’s all well and good when it’s a lower budget, but something like that. You’re an entrepreneur. Don’t you think? Oh, like, should I put in a kickback or I don’t know. Do you have incentives, like from a business perspective, what’s your secret? Like where do you get an extra cherry on top?
[00:33:20]Gavin Bell: Yeah, so we now have a pricing model where we charge after 10,000 per month, after their budget increases after 10,000 a month, then we charge a percentage.
[00:33:30] But with this client, like I say, they start at 500. If they had carried on doing it themselves, we wouldn’t have, they just wouldn’t have got those results, but they invested in us. And by doing that, we were able to navigate through the iOS 14 changes. We’re able to tell them right. We should spend more, now, we ended up spending about $2,000 a day at the end of the campaign and they got those results.
[00:33:56] And that’s good, the reason I tell that story is because it’s a good example of that kid of plunder doing it themselves, but they decided to hire somebody. And at that level of spend that’s when it really pays off because that campaign was no success that they can reinvest into future campaigns.
[00:34:14]Kris Ward: And I can see too, I think this is the misnomer where the first week when they did so well, cause you’re right. They did so well because it was a free track. Hello. Right. And then when it Peters off, you think, oh, like they could have good on them because you could have easily got sucked into these dynamics at least.
[00:34:32] Three four weeks going, but the first week to have success, so all we just have to change this and then you have to leave it a week and spend money before you realize, no, we have to change this and you don’t know what you’re changing or why you’re changing it. Right. So I think that’s the Vegas thing where you think you got to hit.
[00:34:46] And, and I know, I mean, what little I know about Facebook it’s obvious we forget it’s in front of humans. So then when you have something that is a success. Let me sound out my words. Grade one. It’s a success. Then you think you did something wrong, but you may have either saturated the market or things have changed.
[00:35:05] You’re just dealing with humans. What was interesting last week is not this week. And so then you start chasing the Facebook ad monster, trying to figure out the backend, but it really is about advertising. Just like some commercials really work and some don’t. Right.
[00:35:019]Gavin Bell: Exactly. And what a lot of clients would have done in that situation is gone.
[00:35:23] Oh, it’s costing me more to get purchased. So I’m going to start spending more to try and by losses. And at the end of the three months, they would have been up in a loss. And actually, I think in this case, the problem that they did have was, problems with audience fatigue. So they’d audit, they target too small an audience and wipe them out and they needed to test them or audiences.
[00:35:48]Kris Ward: Well, you must have a hard time because I know there’s way more misinformation and incorrect information about Facebook. So you just must be walking through your day, constantly slapping yourself in the forehead. Like you must be exhausted. Right because we were just bumping around like bumbling idiots going. Aw. Right.
[00:36:04]Gavin Bell: What interests me is some good content ideas, so, okay.
[00:36:09]Kris Ward: So where should we start Gavin? Where can people find you and where can we say all right. I want to get in my ducks in a row because I want to one day be dealing with Gavin. So how do we start that path to Gavin?
[00:36:21]Gavin Bell: Yeah. So there’s two things I would recommend if you want more bite-sized clips like this, I’m really active on Twitter.
[00:36:29] So @Mr.GavinBell on Twitter and that’s my social handle for all platforms. And then our website, we’re just currently at the table recording. That’s still in development, but we are ‘yetter.com.’ Okay. Is our agency site which we’ll be going live very, very soon. I hope.
[00:36:46]Kris Ward: Okay. No problem. We’ll put all that in the show notes. Gavin, you’ve been an absolute treat. Thank you so much. This has been a mystery to us all, and it, you know, it may be juvenile stuff for you, but you’ve given us great clarity and I’m really excited about where we take it from here. Thank you so much. And everyone else we’ll see you in the next episode.
[00:37:06] Thank you, Gavin. That was very helpful. I mean, it was very basic for you, but I think it was very enlightening and I would, I hope it wasn’t too dull for you, but I think people would just get lost, like, right. Like, you know what? He always reminds me of what I say to people is you could be driving along and you’ve got this GPS.
[00:37:23] All you have to do is turn a ‘one road’. And then you’re lost because now this road took you here, took you there. All the other instructions were correct, but you turned on one road and it’s a hot mess, right?
[00:37:38]Gavin Bell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I love that. I think, I really, I really liked your interview style, actually.
[00:37:42] I think sometimes when you’re, when I do podcasts on Facebook ads, sometimes the host will ask too complicated questions, which are actually, yeah. You can’t answer on a podcast and then. You know, you just end up confusing the listener. So I think yeah, I really enjoyed that.
[00:38:03]Kris Ward: Well, thank you. And that’s my goal is I want them to be inspired, not discouraged. And that’s what I want to tell you upfront. I was like, okay, I don’t want to minimize your brilliance, but I want them to like really walk away with something. And if you start talking tech, they can’t see it and they can’t learn it. If we understood it, we wouldn’t be talking to you.
[00:38:18] Right. So what’s the point there. But if you love my hosting, you’ve love my guesting. So if you ever want to talk about how people can have more space in their calendar so that they can deal with people like you, we’re all about that. So that would be fun, but yeah, I think, pardon me?
[00:38:36]Gavin Bell: Absolutely. I mean, where the podcast is we’ve finished season two or three, I can’t even remember no at the end of last year.
[00:38:46] And it’s probably going to be a Q3 thing when we start to up again. So. A hundred percent. We’ll have you on the show.
[00:38:54]Kris Ward: Is Q3 in September?
[00:38:56]Gavin Bell: Oh God, July, I think July.
[00:39:01]Kris Ward: Okay. Sorry. That’s a year. That’s not a north American term. So, you know, so I’m like, okay, you know what? When I was in England, it was hilarious.
[00:39:09] My husband’s family is from there, so it was just a price. And he hadn’t been back in a long time. I kid you not, there was a sentence in every word. That I had no idea what they’re talking about. I would just stand there and go, I need another clue to the point that I constantly was baffled that at one point, like there so many things that misinformed about like, you know, how was I supposed to know a jumper, the sweater, or like, lolly is a chalk, you know, whatever that sounds like a lollipop.
[00:39:37] Right. And, I was in somebody’s house and she said I wanted to wash her clothes cause we’d been there for two weeks. And she said the switches on the wall. Well, let me backup for a second before she said, do you want to go next door? And I thought. All right. Do we know them? But she just meant the next room.
[00:39:52] Right? I was like putting boots on to go next door. So then I said, I just want to do this load of lunch. She goes, that’s fine. The switches on the wall, dear. And I said, because everything else had gotten wrong. So I said, well, what’s a wall. And she said, you don’t have walls and Canada deer. But I was like, I assume the wall is going to be something else, because I had never seen a switch for a dryer on a wall as you see on the dryer.
[00:40:14] Right. So I assume the wall was something else. So I’m like, what’s the word? Wow. So she’s like, I guess in Canada they have walls. So yeah. So no, the Q3 is not a north American term. All right. So I’ll reach out to you for July for sure. And we’re probably going to air your show sooner than later. When do you think we’ve got a big backup, but for some reason I had a litany of people talking about video and wanting, so I need to break up that video thing. It’s something different. So when is your website going to be live? Do you think?
[00:40:50]Gavin Bell: I think it’s probably going to be live within the next two weeks. Yeah. I mean, it’s there right now, but it’s just a holding page, but I think it will be properly there.
[00:41:00]Kris Ward: All right. So we’ll get you up, like within three, four weeks, just so it’s safe.
[00:41:05] And, I got all your information. You did. Because every time you show up online, people say ‘I have a lot of energy,’ but I was like, ‘He makes this seem interesting, but he’s talking about Facebook ads.’ Like how could this, so I thought I’m first. I thought I must not be understanding what he’s, what he’s about.
[00:41:24] No, he’s sticking to that story. He’s still about Facebook ads, but he looks like he’s having a good time. Because usually they come off, like they’re very geeky heady. And all they do is make you feel like a dog. I don’t know what I’m doing. Right. And I thought, oh, he makes it seem like we could all do this.
[00:41:44] We should talk to him. So, yeah. You’re fabulous. All right. So I will, my team will definitely. They always give you on Tuesday, a whole bunch of information on Tuesday and then remind you on Thursday. And then I will reach out and remind you of my friendly face in July. I’d love to be a guest on your show. And, yeah, I look forward to cheering you on now that we connected. I’m going to cheer you on even more on LinkedIn.
[00:42:09]Gavin Bell: Yeah, likewise. I hope we can catch up in real life. When the world goes back to semi normality.
[00:42:15]Kris Ward: They have lost their mind. I’m so over it, I keep telling people, I refuse to participate in it.
[00:42:22]Gavin Bell: I just spoke to somebody in Florida who said that they’re fully back to normal. They’ve removed all COVID restrictions, no masks, a hundred percent normality.
[00:42:34]Kris Ward:Where I am, we’re on an island. And so we’ve been spoiled compared to the rest of Canada, which by the way, we’re just assuming that like in Toronto, we just think that the leaders don’t want to unveil it because then you’re going to see how many mistakes you made.
[00:42:47] Like they’ve backed themselves into a corner.So we’ve pretty much, there’s like sometimes there’s restaurant restrictions where you can’t sit next table, but it’s just the mask thing. That’s the only thing we have to do, although they have shut our island down, people aren’t allowed to visit, but, the mass thing, I don’t know what’s wrong with me.
[00:43:03] I feel like a four year old who puts his underwear on his head when I’m wearing that mask. I don’t know why. It eats at my soul and they try it. You can’t, you gotta be careful when you tell that too, because now you’re one of them and stuff, but I’m so over it. But I do think if they started doing that in the states, as much as I hate to say it, I think it’s got to start catching on, like it has to come and end, like.
[00:43:26] You imagined you and your business like this, we don’t know what we’re doing, but we’re going to keep trying it for a couple of years. You don’t.
[00:43:33]Gavin Bell: It’s scary. Like, I’m kind of scared because our pubs and cafes and restaurants opened again last week. Which is great, but there’s been so many times where they’ve opened up and then locked down again and opened up.
[00:43:48] I’m just like, Jesus. This has to be the first, the last Titan police. Cause it’s just..
[00:43:54]Kris Ward: And in Canada too, I’m sure if a plane went down, they would say everybody on it had COVID. If you break your leg and you’ve got, you know, fall down a flight of stairs in front of a truck and they’re like..
[00:44:05]Gavin Bell: Yeah. As long as you had COVID in 20 days prior to dying of whatever, it’s kind of like a COVID death.
[00:44:11Kris Ward: ] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry about that Mack truck that hit you, but you weren’t coughing. Well, I appreciate your jadedness. That’s my now we’re my friends for life. Cause I’m all about that otherness. Like people that are just blindly following and I’m just not sitting here to sign up for a needle that they experimented with.
[00:44:31] Thank you. People like I see people online and they’re so excited and they show that they got the needle and I think, all right, we’re less of a relationship than we had before, because now he lost some respect for you. You don’t know what’s in that, yeah.
[00:44:48] That’s just like, because oh, the government said it worked well. Let’s go back. There’s been a few other things, but anyhow, I digress.
[00:44:45]Gavin Bell: Well, that’s actually, another thing I saw in Florida is they’ve made it illegal for COVID passports, which I was like, That’s very cool. Good.
[00:45:04]Kris Ward: Oh, you just cheered me up all kinds of different ways today.
[00:45:07] Gavin. Well, you were inspiring. I’m really excited about this. And I think now, I think it’s been like, I wish I had said this on the show. It’s almost like when you go into somebody’s room like a teenager’s room and everything’s a hot mess, but when you pull it away, it’s just laundry. And I feel like the, and then you go, oh, I just have three piles for me.
[00:45:27] You gave me new hope in Facebook ads. Cause it’s like, Oh, the path is clear now before, just seems like you hop in and hop out and you didn’t know what you do and you take a hit and you leave and you’re beat up. But now I, it made a lot of sense what you said today. So I really, for me, it was inspiring.
[00:45:44]Gavin Bell: Brilliant. I appreciate that.
[00:45:53]Kris Ward: Awesome. Awesome. All right. We’ll talk in July in Q3. Thanks Gavin.