Harlan Hammack is a sought-after business coach. He has a gift of putting common sense into powerful practices. Listen in as he gives us sage advice that will instantly change how you see your business.
-what is intellectual courage and why it’s important
-how to effectively navigate any plan
-why you need to create leaders, not followers
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Harlan Hammack Podcast
[00:00:43Harlan Hammock: ]Hey there!
[00:00:44]Kris Ward: Harlan. I am jealous. I have to tell you.
[00:00:48]Harlan Hammock: Why is that?
[00:00:49]Kris Ward: Because I didn’t realize you had a podcast and now that I’ve listened to your podcast voice, I’m like, all I’ve got is: my husband used to say, you’re getting Sheryl bay. You’re getting shrill, bring it down a notch.
[00:01:02]Harlan Hammock: No, you’re doing fine. And of course we’re getting ready to talk and the blowers that we have lawn guys to come, and they’re just.
[00:01:10] Right right here. Of course. Right now they’ll be gone and a half a second. But yeah.
[00:01:14] Kris Ward: That’s happened to me before, cause I just moved into this house and I swear like back in the beginning I’d be doing one podcast a week and I don’t know how they knew to bone right underneath my window. And you’re trying to sound intelligent while there’s a little person in your head screaming. When is that going to stop?
[00:01:35]Harlan Hammock: And my wife and I are both working. She’s got her office just across the hall. They’re either mowing or trimming the bushes there when she’s trying to get on a call or they’re right here when I’m on. So yeah.
[00:01:46] Kris Ward: So you do a fabulous job on your show and it’s right up my alley with Win the Hour, Win the Day. I’m all about leadership.
[00:01:53] That’s my passion. So many people do that. So unbelievably wrong. It’s frightening. Right. So yes, absolutely. All right. So I’ll figure it out, I’ll figure out how I’ll term you to get on your show and you’ll let me know. You’re on my show tomorrow. Oh, am I? I guess I’m booked everywhere. I was like, you know what?
[00:02:16] That’s so funny because I thought I’m not going to lie. The last person I had before you stressed me out a little bit, I was like, oh, I shouldn’t, I don’t, I’m reflecting whether she’s going to air or not. Right. So then I was looking at your notes. And then I was like, I didn’t know. He had to show, that’s not like this.
[00:02:32] I had a little argument with myself. It’s not like me to not know this. So I thought, well, everybody, every dog has their day. You’re fine. So I go and check it out. And then I was like, this sounds familiar, but I thought, no, he’s got such a good radio voice. It all sounds like they all sound the same when they sound that good.
[00:02:48] So I was going back and forth. I was worried about my sanity, but I thought I just, I thought I had just rediscovered it. So it’s fantastic. Well, look at me. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, yes. Yeah, there we go. Okay. I’m going to go, phew. My little hook, but yes, you’ve got to. It sounds like you could work with Quincy Jones?
[00:03:12] No. Okay. All right. So for, oh, let me do this in the state. All in a state, I got distracted to one of your shows tonight and I was like, oh, I guess I have to interview him. I’m listening to him. Okay. Here we go. I was like, I have to stop what I’m doing. Here we go.
[00:03:36] Perfect. No, I keep doing that. I keep forgetting that nobody will see that. Okay. Hold on one second. Almost there. Okay. I mean the sound is good here, but you sound really good on your show. Okay. Gallery, do this. Okay. So, as I explained to my audience, they’re entrepreneurs, they’ve been in business about five years.
[00:04:02] We want tactical takeaways. I was reading my notes again from you. So I think we’re diving into: what do you call them? The different types of leadership, like discipline and okay. Okay. So I’m looking forward. This will be a more meaty conversation. I do really well. I would say 95% of the people I interview I’m thrilled with.
[00:04:23] And then there’s like 1% where I think you can talk about anything you want. Cause this will not see the light of day. And then there’s 2% where like I’m carrying this conversation and I’m starting to sound like I know more than you, but usually I do pretty good. Okay.
[00:04:38]Harlan Hammock: I think this would be fun.
[00:04:38]Kris Ward: Yes, I think so, too.
[00:04:41] Okay. So let’s get this Harlan Hammock. Is that correct? Check this. Recording. Use ‘timer’.
[00:04:56] N I try not to interrupt you, but I blame my mother. She talks over me all the time. When I want to unpack something billing, you said, I tried to put my finger up. Perfect. This will give you a tip to the last one. I said, so I try not to talk over you. I’ll put my finger up that I want to dive in and unpack something you said.
[00:05:17] So the first time I put my finger up, she said, yes, yes. Go ahead. I’m like, no, that’s okay. That’s not the point of this. Thank you. Right.
[00:05:26]Harlan Hammock: So if you put the finger up those beads, dig deeper, talk to them.
[00:05:29]Kris Ward: Yes, yes. Say yes, you have a question because that’s what they want.
[00:05:36]Harlan Hammock: Okay. And then about how long your podcasts were about half an hour?
[00:05:39]Kris Ward: It’s about 20 minutes. Can you, I just left my water over there.
[00:05:43]Harlan Hammock: Sure. I’ll be right here. When you get back.
[00:06:11]Kris Ward: Okay.
[00:06:22] That was annoying.
[00:06:26] I’m usually very militant about my routine. I thought, oh no, I’ll put it there. And I’ll remember, I don’t know where that was. Okay.
[00:06:39] Okay. All right, let’s go with that. All right. Here we are Harlan Hammock.
[00:06:57]Kris Ward: Hey, Everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win the Hour, Win the Day. I am your lucky host, Kris Ward. I always feel lucky. We have phenomenal guests and today is no exception. We have Harlan Hammock in the house and he is, I mean, here, I think this one sentence sums it all up. Turns common sense into common practice.
[00:07:19] He is a business coach, a well sought after business coach. And today we’re going to talk about leadership, but we’re going to do it in a very different way. So please stay tuned and we’re going to dive right in. Welcome to the show, Harlan.
[00:07:34]Harlan Hammock: Thanks, Kris. It’s great to be here. Thank you.
[00:07:34]Kris Ward: I’m excited to have you because you really sort of categorize this leadership stuff in a way that I haven’t seen done before.
[00:07:43] And yet it’s very relatable and I can put myself into each category at different times. And so let’s just dive in, you know, let’s just turn the car on. Let’s go.
[00:07:55]Harlan Hammock: Sure. Yeah. I was working with a couple of clients who are fairly new to being bosses. And if you’re not used to being a boss, if you’re not used to being a leader that can be scary sometimes, they would not take initiatives when they needed to.
[00:08:08] They wouldn’t step in to say what needed to be said when they needed to say it. I was trying to talk to them about being more courageous as a leader. So I started looking up some articles, and found some articles about the courage to lead. And that’s what led to my podcast called the Curse Lead. There’s different types of courage that we tap into on a regular basis, just in our normal lives, in our business lives.
[00:08:28] And each one of those serves a certain function, right? So intellectual courage. Those long-held beliefs. You know, the one thing that drives me crazy is when businesses say, oh, this is the way we’ve always done it. Shut off. They’re shut off. Exactly. The intellectual courage is the ability to set aside the knowledge you have and be open to learning new things, especially when it comes from wanting for your employees.
[00:08:51] Right? A lot of times the employees who are down in the trenches doing the work, they know the best way to do things and there they come up with ideas. So intellectual courage.
[00:08:58]Kris Ward: So our audience. You guys are out there. Most of you, you know, some, you have a team, some of you don’t and the teams you have are really super small.
[00:09:07] So, you know, we’re thinking from a corporate mindset and we talk about, well, they’re down in the trenches, but when you guys out there have smaller teams, I still think it lends itself to the fact that there is what I call this parentified model. Like you’re like most businesses, small and especially bigger set up like, oh, the manager supervisor is like the parent and they tell you what to do and you try whatever you don’t want to outshine them, or they’re going through a thing at home.
[00:09:32] So now they’re going to be cranky at work, which makes me nuts. Right. But, so I’m all about my passion about being the dumbest in the room. And I tell you, I’m surrounded by brilliance and every day I’m like, wow, these people are smart. I’m okay with being the dumbest in the room. So it’s really, so I want to just.
[00:09:50] Make sure we decrease that gap between management and employees, because you guys out there listening, we’re talking about really small teams. So with those really small teams, you still, I think, want to be the dumbest person on earth.
[00:10:02]Harlan Hammock: I absolutely open yourself up, ask questions and be open to those different ideas.
[00:10:06] You never know where they’re going to come from. So always be open to them.
[00:10:09]Kris Ward: And would you say also too, something that I talk about a lot, because we’re with win the hour, win the day we actually, as part of our coaching, we will recruit and hire for you. You get to meet them before you hire them.
[00:10:22] We help you on board. And then we put what we call toolkits in play. There’s sort of like SOP; standard operating procedures, but the toolkits are far more effective because. SOPs are created by usually not the end user and usually created for liability. So why that’s really important is I feel like you, you really have to encourage and train these people to ask questions because they’re used to that parentified model.
[00:10:48]Harlan Hammock: Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, they want to be led. They don’t, they’re afraid of making a mistake. And a lot of times, if they’ve come to work for you, maybe they’ve had a bad experience at a previous employer. They’re afraid to step out of line. They’re afraid to color outside the lines, you know? So yeah. You have to go put.
[00:11:02]Kris Ward: Or come up with a better idea than yours.
[00:11:04] Cause you know, I’m just here to be obedient. Right, right. So that’s a big deal. So, okay. So diving into the courageous part. So you’re talking about being a courageous leader.
[00:11:15]Harlan Hammock:Discipline courage, the courage to set a plan and stick with it. There’s a lot of shiny objects. There are a lot of, you know, the squirrel, right?
[00:11:22] That people look at and say, Hey, maybe that’s something we should get involved in. Maybe that’s something we should do for our business. If you have a plan, a solid plan, stick to the plan. Right. Have that courage to say I’m on the right track. Let those shiny objects go and keep headed down the right path.
[00:11:38]Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. You know, that reminds me of like, you know, I’ve been in business a while now, but those first couple of years, you know, and even when I had a team like one or two people, and I do think a team like for you guys out there can be really lean. Like I still only have four people, but we get a lot done.
[00:11:54] But in the beginning, They might leave on Friday. And then I read a book over the weekend. So everything’s changed come Monday, right? Everything. You don’t understand our whole mission. It’s all going to be different because I read this book and they show up and it’s almost like, I don’t even know why they’re not catching up because the person I was on Friday is so different than Monday.
[00:12:16] And I feel like we already went through that together. And they’re like, what, what was the name of the book? What, where are we going? So you’re right. I think for entrepreneurs, especially that. The discipline, the courage to be doing one thing at a time and stay there and see the course. I don’t think we talk about that enough and especially how stressful it is on the team.
[00:12:35] Like it’s bad enough. It’s just you, but you really beat up the team when you’re all over the place and they don’t even know which personality to chase.
[00:12:42]Harlan Hammock:Exactly. Exactly. Absolutely does. And I’m a private pilot. So if I’m flying anywhere outside of my local area, I file a flight plan, right. It starts with, where am I now?
[00:12:52] Where do I want to be? How do I plan to get there? And how am I going to measure my progress? Same thing in business, you have to have a flight plan, a strategic plan. Where are you now? And all the bits and pieces that go along with that. Where do you want to be? How do you plan to get there? And how are you going to measure your progress?
[00:13:06] Once you set that plan? And everybody agrees that that’s where we’re going. Stick to your plan. You can make adjustments, right? We have to make adjustments for wind or obstacles, make adjustments, but stick to that plan, you know, continue on.
[00:13:19]Kris Ward: That sounds very wise, but I have to admit that there would have to be a very strong man with a very large rifle to get me into one of those little planes.
[00:13:27] Just say, in theory, your example is really good. I really like the analogy, but I’m stuck on how small that plane is and how high we are up in here, but okay. I digress. Okay. Sticking to sticking to the flight plan. Right.
[00:13:43]Harlan Hammock: That’s part of the discipline courage, right? If you have moral courage, right.
[00:13:47] Standing up for what’s right when it’s right. Social courage is saying what needs to be said when it needs to be said, even if it’s going to be unpopular or, you know, aggravate some people. Right. I’ve got clients who don’t want to challenge their employees when they do something wrong because they’re still buddies.
[00:14:07] You know, so not saying what needs to be said, not calling somebody on the carpet and say, Hey, that was wrong. I need you to do it this way in the future. They don’t wanna, they don’t want to come across as too harsh. And I think they, they miss an opportunity, not only to train that employee, but also to show the other employees know these rules are here for a reason and we all need to play by the same rules.
[00:14:28]Kris Ward: I struggle with that when I can’t relate to that one, but I have seen it like I had a client once. Oh my gosh. And she had a small business and. She was having issues with her, one of her employees and. The next week we were talking and she said, well, I left her a note at the couch and I’m like, she left her note.
[00:14:47] She said, well, I, you know, I’m not good with confrontation, which can I go on a rant for a minute? Nobody jumps up and says, oh, I’m so excited. I got confrontation today. But you got to do what you got to do. And I guess to me, the kindness thing you give somebody who’s a true, like, let me redirect you before we get way off course.
[00:15:04] And I also feel like you shift to give people honesty so that they know where they stand, not three months down the road, there’s this big list, you know, like when you get in a fight with somebody in your family and they mentioned something from, and when you were sick. So I guess I struggle with that, but obviously people have that, like, to me, it’s just a matter of.
[00:15:24] Steering the ship, right? You gotta, somebody’s gotta be in charge and you can do that nicely and effectively, but you got to tell them.
[00:15:32]Harlan Hammock: Yeah. And if you have those rules in place, everybody needs to follow those rules. And if you let somebody get away with it, then people start saying, well, maybe that doesn’t apply to me.
[00:15:40] Or if they see you doing something that goes against the grain of the culture that you’ve created in the company, maybe they. Think well, if you’re going to do it, maybe I can, or if you get away with it, I can, or maybe that’s what I need to do to get ahead in this company. You know.
[00:15:54]Kris Ward: Yeah, there’s a lot of unwritten rules trying to figure out like the mood and the temperature.
[00:15:59] I know recently we have a student and we have students all the time, and this one he’s particularly talented in one area. And, he was doing so well that he wanted to be in our apprenticeship program for the summer. So he was a co-op student and now he wants to work for free for the summer.
[00:16:17] And I don’t know what happened, but there was a couple of days he dropped the ball and it was just like not okay. My job is not to chase you around. That’s not how we operate here at all at all. They manage me. I don’t manage them. I’m not on my co manager in no way. And I like, said to the team, like, that’s it.
[00:16:32] Like he better turn this around really quickly. Who’s going to lose his apprenticeship. Now I know my colleagues, other entrepreneurs would say, oh my gosh, like you’d give up free hours. Like, he’s so talented in this area. And that’s like free hours, but I’m like that. Just like, I don’t know, like, weeds in the garden, you know, like there’s just no way.
[00:16:52]Harlan Hammock: Right. I’ll get to him tomorrow or next week or whatever. And next thing you know, I want to.
[00:16:56]Kris Ward: Oh, it’s free. I don’t want to turn that down. Right. It’s like, you’re not free for causing me problems. All right, so we’ve got, and then we have empathic courage. Is it?
[00:17:09]Harlan Hammock: Empathetic. English is a bit of a difficult language.
[00:17:16]Kris Ward:but it’s your only one. Yeah
[00:17:18]Harlan Hammock:. Empathetic courage is being able to empathize with your employees, right? You’ve been where they are. You know, what it feels like to be able to set aside your feelings, to give them space, to say, Hey, I’m struggling here. I’m, you know, I’m having a bad time or whatever.
[00:17:35] So to be able to get with them on that, not sympathy level, but then on the empathetic level, right. I know what you’re going through, but then you have to reinstate yourself as a leader. Hey, I understand you’re struggling right now. Take some time, pull yourself together, but I need you to get back to this, right?
[00:17:49] Because this is important. I need you to come back, you know, so having that, that ability to, to see what they’re going through and understand that it’s difficult, it may be a new process. They haven’t learned before. Maybe a brand new customer they’re struggling with. You’ve been through it. Be able to empathize with them a little bit, but then re-insert, Hey, here’s what I needed to do.
[00:18:07]Kris Ward: Yeah. I agree with you. I know that it reminds me of two different examples. One is somebody on our team had a death in the family and they came back to work and I’m like, you know what? Like, that’s great. You had last week off and all this stuff, but you’re like, it’s not over the funeral is over. It’s not over.
[00:18:23] So like let’s really ease you into this weekend deal with mundane tasks that you don’t need as much, you know, brainpower to navigate through. Like there, you’re not serving me. This is the thing, is the entrepreneur, especially when you have a smaller team you’re of no help to me. If you’re sitting in that chair and you’re just trying to get through the day, you can bury that in a bigger company, like, okay, I got my butt to work and I’m in a bit of a fog, but in a smaller company, you know, you just make mistakes or I’m a big believer when somebody in my team is not well, like go home.
[00:18:54] Like, you’re just keeping the seat warm and now we’re going to clean up the mistakes tomorrow. Why don’t you get better today and come back stronger, faster, quicker. Right.
[00:19:03]Harlan Hammock:And if you build that culture, then people will step in and pick up a little bit of the load, knowing that that person is probably struggling and needs a little, little downtime.
[00:19:11]Kris Ward: Yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. For me, Carlin diesel seems like, I don’t know. I guess you’re right. We talked about that. I was going to say common sense, but we already mentioned that. So I guess to me they seem common sense and a little bit of kindness and just something that gives it, give your organization some character, even if there’s two of you or three of you, it’s really about what kind of business do you want to be?
[00:19:37]Harlan Hammock: Sure. And that’s what I’m saying. Common sense into common practice, right? There a lot of this is just common sense, but you have to put it into practice. You have to be real about it. I think was it Bernay brown that said, “Clear is kind.” You have to be clear, say what you need to say when it needs to be said and, and stick to your guns.
[00:19:57]Kris Ward: Yeah. I mean, I think, I don’t know how old I was quite some time ago when I remember reading the one minute manager and their whole thing is everything should just take a minute. And, you know, that’s something that I think I do well, like if I have to address something and it’s difficult, like, or like somebody dropped the ball and it really is an issue.
[00:20:18] Then I say my piece. And then I say, okay, now we need to move on from that, like, it’s not, I see nicely. It’s not my job to cheer you up, but I do need you to get back on track. Like I’m not, you know, I don’t need you beating yourself up all day. Cause then you’re no good to me. Many years ago, I had somebody who worked for me and there was a mistake made.
[00:20:36] It cost us some money. And so we have like an hour to fix it. We caught it and we had to scramble. I won’t bore you with details. And then she got really upset and she was getting emotional. I said, what’s going on, Stephanie? And she goes like, you’re such a cheerleader to us. You’re always so supportive.
[00:20:49] And I made this big mistake and now it’s costing us money. And I said, And I thank you for caring, but now we’re spending more time being upset. We really do need to move past this mistake and I’m not upset. Mistakes happen. And I always looked at the system and process that must have been missed if we’d allowed for that mistake.
[00:21:08] So we’ll figure that out later. But I’m like, you need to not, I’m not beating you up, so you need to stop because we really need you right now. We need to move forward. Yeah.
[00:21:18]Harlan Hammock: And the one thing that had a client that had an employee that was not doing the best job, but he let it go and let it go, let it go.
[00:21:25] At the end of the year, he did an employee review and he said, you know, For the last five months you’ve been doing X and that’s not the way we do things around here. It’s like how much money did you lose? Letting it continue, say something right then, you know, say something right that moment. And you don’t have to be harsh about it.
[00:21:42] Hey, I saw you did X. That’s not the way we do things. Here’s how we do things here. You know, or ask, how does that support our goals or how does that support our core values? If they say, well, I, you know, you say customers come first. I thought I was serving the customer better. Fine. I understand what you’re trying to do.
[00:21:57] I appreciate that. But here’s how I’d prefer you do it in the future and, but you need to address it right then you don’t wait. Say what needs to be said when it needs to be said.
[00:22:06]Kris Ward: And do you also, I think, leave people feeling unsafe, like then I have to wait another five minutes to find five months to find out what I did wrong.
[00:22:15] Like then you don’t know when you’re doing well. Cause it’s like, oh, things are going better. Okay. I think I’m turning around in three months in, but the last time he waited five months to tell me, so who knows what crimes against humanity I’m piling up here, right? Yeah, it’s unbelievable. So you seem like a very kind and patient person.
[00:22:37]Harlan Hammock: Maybe, it comes with age.
[00:22:40]Kris Ward: I don’t know what you want to say to some of these things. Like, not that they seem foolish because you’re building a career on it, but some of these things I just don’t get that you have to, maybe you just get busy and maybe you’re good at three of them and you miss the other two. And I’m not arrogantly saying that, like we got it all together.
[00:22:58] I mean, I’m always, many things I had to learn. One of the things I had to learn, I call myself a recovering Russia Hollick and one of those things are, I can’t show up for a little scrum and little team meeting in a rush because then my tone doesn’t come out right. And, you know, and the good thing about my team that’s trained the way we want this culture to be is they will, they will tell me about my tone.
[00:23:19] Right? Evan will say afterwards, like I agree with what you said, but I think your tone could have been different. I’m like, oh, right. So I’ve had to learn, you know, I can’t squeeze things in because then my tone comes out, rushed and impatient. I just like, go, go, go. And that’s not how you deal with humans.
[00:23:33] So I definitely. Yeah, I’m a work in progress and make mistakes, but some of these things of just addressing basic needs, like, I don’t know. How do you do your job with them every once in a while, just leaning over and using the Palm of your hand to tap them in the forehead?
[00:23:47]Harlan Hammock:Yeah. Well, a lot of people that I work with you probably work with too.
[00:23:50] They’re technically really, really good at what they do. But they’ve never really had management classes or leadership classes, so they’re learning. Right. And it’s those times where we have to give them the courage to, Hey, stand up, say this, you know, it won’t be as bad as you think it’s going to be.
[00:24:05] It’ll be easy. And once they start seeing that, everything’s fine, people get along and they get over it and get past it and continue. They’re fine. But it’s finding that courage inside. And sometimes, I mean, that’s what we do as business coaches. That’s what we try to do is try to set them on the right path.
[00:24:20]Kris Ward: You’re right. And you’re a much more evolved human being than I am. So you’re right. Okay. So what’s happening is it’s kind of like what I call creating your win team, your ‘what is next team’ And so what happens is too many people run out and say, okay, I need a VA. And then they take a pile of work from their desk and then put it over
[00:24:36] the other person’s desk and that’s not really building a team. Right. And so then you don’t have, you’re not collaborating and leveraging time, you’re just moving paperwork. And so you’re right. You could do that. And then as one person said to me, they were just paying for more bodies, but things weren’t being leveraged or they weren’t building a business or a team.
[00:24:55] They were just, you know, task work. Right. And so you’re right. Handing work to somebody is not leadership. Yeah, that’s delegating tasks.
[00:25:04]Harlan Hammock: Well, it’s not even effective elevating either. If you just pass things on to somebody else, our job as leaders is to create more leaders, not followers. We have plenty of followers, we need more leaders.
[00:25:14] So how do you take that? Teach that person, how to do this, how to think on a company scale, you know, what’s best for the company, what fits our core values? What fits our vision, mission, purpose, and try to groom them to become stronger leaders. If business owners can do that, they can step back a little bit and start working on the higher level, strategic things that need to happen in the business.
[00:25:36] Leave the tactical things to these new leaders that they’re creating.
[00:25:39]Kris Ward: You’re right. Yeah. Like what am I gonna say? He’s wrong. I think, you know what? I think some of this stuff. I do well. And that has fallen into a leadership role where I know one of my, when we had the poor student that will shall rename ‘nameless’ in cases that’s new to this show.
[00:25:59] So Evan said to me, okay, I’ll deal with him. I should deal with him because he dropped the ball on my ship. I want to talk to you about some leadership things, how I could do this better. And I would have never used the word leadership for me. I’m not a follower, but that’s not a word I would have described as far as.
[00:26:14] I just thought I was putting some basic things in play and I guess by default or by, you know, just dealing with things directly and efficiently, effectively, I guess that bestows some leadership qualities. So you, right. I think that it’s a bigger umbrella and it’s the fallout of, I think a lot of small, but good choices.
[00:26:33] So I never thought of the leadership role. I just guess I thought of, I thought of building a team. I guess if anything, I thought like, I feel like we’re a circle or equals, even though I know that’s not true, but I didn’t want the parentified version. So I guess understanding the power of leadership is something I’ve ignored.
[00:26:51]Harlan Hammock: Absolutely. So, so managers deal with tasks, right? Leaders set the vision for the company. What do you want the company to be? What do you want the culture to be? You know, where are you going to take this group? And then how do you communicate with them in a way that they see that vision?
[00:27:07] Right. They adopt that vision for their own and they say, yeah, that’s where I want to go. How do I help you get there? How do I help us get there? You know, that’s what you want from people. When they come up and say, Hey, I had an idea, I know you want to do X. I had an idea. That’s golden, you know, that’s golden. When they’re too shy to say anything, that means you haven’t either, you haven’t clearly communicated that vision for them or you haven’t given them the okay. To come up with ideas, you know, it’s that intellectual courage.
[00:27:30]Kris Ward: Yeah, you’re right. Cause I know one of my struggles on social media, like say on Facebook where they want you to be more personable. Right. And so Kasel on my team, like lately is been riding me about, I’m like, listen, I live a very quiet life.
[00:27:46] I don’t like, no, you know, I’m not, there’s no me skydiving or here’s me and my farm with the goats. Right. So here I am on Saturday trying to walk around the house, come up with something. Cause Kasel on me, like white on rice, he’s raised. So I’m like, okay. And then I was so excited and I came up with something I’m like, oh my gosh, I can’t wait for Monday to tell her I did it.
[00:28:04] I did it. And it’s like, you know, cause she’s leading me in that direction where I’m not giving enough attention to it. And that’s her job as the social media manager. So it really, you’re right. She really is. She’s got leadership qualities that I just thought, I thought she was good at her job, but I think, I think the leadership word is much more impactful and powerful than I was recognizing until today.
[00:28:26]Harlan Hammock: Yeah. I think so, and courage, courage is action. Right? We can sit on our couch with our footer pajamas on, or our fuzzy slippers or whatever, and think great thoughts. But if you’re not willing to actually step up and take an action, it’s not really courage. You know, a lot of these things, a person can say, you know, I really should have said something today.
[00:28:45] Yes. The courage is actually saying it, you know, get out there and say what you need to say. You need to be that leader for your team. No matter what size your team is, be that leader, set the vision, set the goals and help everybody achieve that.
[00:28:58]Kris Ward: Yeah. And I have a friend in HR and she always says, when you do need to let somebody go, you know, regardless of the situation, you do it as cleanly or as effectively. And, you know, in a very efficient, classy manner kind of reminds me of the movie Moneyball.
And he’s saying he’s teaching the younger guy had a fire. Someone said, do you want to get shot right in the head once or shot in the chest a few times? Like, make it quick, make it clean.
[00:29:20] Right. And that’s something too that a lot of people. We’ll stay on the call trying to make somebody I say, call cause everybody, I deal with this virtual team, but I’m trying to make them feel better or whatever. It’s like, look here, we’ve spoken about this. Here’s what’s happened. Here’s why we have to move forward without you. Boom. And that’s it. It is effective, as you can speak as a kind of thing you can do for them.
[00:29:41]Harlan Hammock: Right? The best thing you said was we’ve spoken about this. They should not come as a surprise to them. Yeah. If they’ve done something, here’s what I want you to do in the future. And they get maybe two tries and then it’s the second time they do it wrong.
[00:29:53] It’s like, listen, this is critical. I need you to do it X or I want you to do at X or whatever you say. And if they don’t, it should not be a surprise to them, you know, to have somebody shocked at what do you mean I’m getting fired. That means you haven’t done your job as a leader.
[00:30:07]Kris Ward: Yeah. I have heard an interview recently, Oprah Winfrey was saying the first person she had to fire, it took her two hours.
And at the end they said, I don’t understand, are you firing me? And she was so clear I didn’t do a very good job, but she said it took me two hours and they still weren’t clear. Right? Absolutely. And that’s my, one of my pet peeves. When people talk about the family, like, oh, I treat my business. Like everyone works with me, like family and like.
[00:30:27] No. Cause you got to forgive your sister no matter what she says, she’s showing up at Thanksgiving. So as much as I, you know, I’m, my team is very loyal to me. I think the world of them, and they’re a backbone to all my success. We’re not family because family has to forgive off flaws pretty much.
[00:30:43]Harlan Hammock: And most families are dysfunctional.
[00:30:44]Kris Ward: Yes, they are. Yes.
[00:30:46]Harlan Hammock: We all go into that.
[00:30:48]Kris Ward: Another show for another day.
[00:30:49]Harlan Hammock: You want a team, you’re in building teams, how to effectively build teams that win the day. That’s what you want. It’s not a family. You want a team that’s going to go out there and win.
[00:30:58]Kris Ward: Yeah, absolutely. All right. We’ve just got a couple minutes left, man.
[00:31:02] Time flies with you, Harlan. What is one thing that your parting wisdom as we wrap up that people should remember or know.
[00:31:09]Harlan Hammock: Oh, there’s so many, to be a leader. I struggle, people have asked, are leaders born or are they made? I think there’s a little bit of both. I think you can have that kernel of leadership want to be a leader you need to learn and you learn through practice.
[00:31:26] You learn through actually going out and doing those leadership type things. Have the vision, be able to communicate that vision communication is key in any leadership role. And like I said, be clear. In your messages, in your communication with people, be clear, be efficient with your time. If now is the time you need to say something, say something about it now.
[00:31:46] Don’t wait a week, two weeks, six months, you know, say what needs to be said right then. And just be fair. And honestly, if you make a mistake step forward and say, you know what, I dropped the ball on this because that’ll give everybody the encouragement that they can come forward without, you know, feeling bad about it.
[00:32:04]Kris Ward: Yeah, I’ve done that. I definitely own up to it, for sure. For sure. For sure. And I think a thread, a theme of what we talked about too, is really empowering clarity, be kind, be clear. And also I think empowering, I know my husband, people used to wait for years to be on his team. You know, where he worked.
[00:32:21] It was hilarious to me because he was so impatient everywhere else. Like I can’t find my keys. I was like, I said to him, I had met him through the workplace that I, if I had not seen that I would not have believed. Like I saw that people waited four years to get on his team and I wouldn’t have believed it because he was just a regular old Joe Guy at home.
[00:32:41] Right. But at the workplace, it was just what he did was he really empowered people to make decisions. And again, I refer back to a lot of places are very parentified, so it’s respect, it’s clarity. And if you do that, then just by the follow up, you become. So I have a, I think, a really great leader.
[00:32:58]Harlan Hammock: Absolutely. And that’s the type of leadership you want to have. That’s the type of culture you want to have. The people are looking forward to coming and working for you and staying with you. You know, right now a lot of businesses are struggling to find employees. You see hiring signs all over, you know, it doesn’t matter what the job is looking for those people. Trying to attract, hire and retain those great employees. It starts with leadership.
[00:33:19]Kris Ward: Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. And as we wrap up, we keep talking. And I tell people that all the time with creating what I call your win team or ‘what is next team’, and you can get somebody really great. And if you aren’t set up properly for that, boy, they’re going to, they are good enough to sniff that out and they’re going to move on.
[00:33:36] Like they, they know the warning signs, right? So fabulous. Well, Harlan, I could talk to you all day. Where would people reach out to find more of your brilliance? Where do they find you?
[00:33:47]Harlan Hammock: My website is “ib4e-coaching.com.” So that’s the letter I, letter B, the number four and letter e-coaching.com.
[00:33:58]Kris Ward: Okay. We’ll make sure to put that in the show notes, Harlan, you’ve been a treat. Thank you so very much for opening your eyes. Everyone else. We’ll see you in the next episode.
[00:33:07]Harlan Hammock: Thanks, Kris.
[00:33:08]Kris Ward: All right. How was that for you, sir?
[00:34:12]Harlan Hammock: Excellent. No, very good. That time flies.
[00:34:15]Kris Ward: I know. I know. And then if some interesting point you had to say, I was like, oh, I talk, it is very conversational and people praise us on that all day long.
[00:34:25] But with you, I was like, oh, let the man talk. Cause I’m all interested in what he had to say. I was talking too much. Well talk more about this tomorrow and I’ll dive into you, how you got started. You know, talk about your book, talk about the win teams, how to build teams. Cause that’s something a lot of my clients are dealing with. How do I attract, hire and retain these great employees?
[00:34:45]Kris Ward: Yeah, no, it’s fine. I’ll work on my radio voice.
[00:34:49]Harlan Hammock: You’re awesome. No, you’re awesome.
[00:34:51]Kris Ward: Well, that was fun. Okay, so you had a good time or good running? Absolutely. Awesome. I’ll see you tomorrow. There’s all kinds of goodness. All right. Sounds good.
[00:35:00]Harlan Hammock: Thanks Kris. Bye .