Stop Getting Price Pushback: Nail Your Offer and Convert Faster! with Megan Vaughan

 Episode Summary

You can find Megan Vaughan at:
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/megvaughan/
TikTok:   https://www.tiktok.com/@prolificbanana
Website:  http://prolificbanana.com/

#AIContentStrategy
#TrustBasedMarketing
#KrisWard

Megan Vaughan Podcast Transcription

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day, and I am your host, Kris Ward. And today we have Megan Vaughan in the house and Megan is a brand strategist. And today we’re going to talk about niching down. And I think you’re going to find this really interesting because I think we don’t talk about this enough.

[00:00:16] Kris Ward: And I don’t think we talk about this. And I don’t think we do a good, we don’t have a good discussion about it. We could do a better job of it. So let’s get right into it, Megan. So Megan, when we talk about niching down, what does that mean for you? Oh, first of all, hello, Megan. Welcome to the show. Yay.

[00:00:33] Megan Vaughan: Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, let’s just jump right into it. I’m excited. Niching down for me is really about, it’s about being known for something really specific, owning a problem and owning the solution to that problem, like deciding that you are being that person, like we’re gonna, we’re the ones that fix it. This is what we’re here to do. 

[00:00:53] Kris Ward: Okay. And what do you, is there a difference when you talk about niching down versus being a [00:01:00] specialist? Like a dentist is a, here’s a dentist and then there’s an orthodontist is a specialist. Do we think of that when it comes to maybe different services like medical and stuff like that?

[00:01:11] Kris Ward: So where does niching down begin and being a specialist like are they the same thing only different or what are we doing there? 

[00:01:17] Megan Vaughan: There’s certainly a place for generalists, but I think if you are someone who is a consultant a service provider especially if you’re selling mid to high ticket I think going the specialist route is definitely going to be the most beneficial for what you want to do if you are someone who does deep work someone who really wants to do that hi, like white glove type service you go really deep with your clients, then specializing really does help you. Generalist is okay, but you still at the end of the day have to be for something. 

[00:01:45] Kris Ward: Okay. So being a specialist or niching down, you would see those as similar things. Very much so then the first thing, and I, you know what, like most of our audience have been in business a while now.

[00:01:56] Kris Ward: So I think they may have crossed [00:02:00] this path and accepted their journey. But I think it’s worth repeating is the fact that sometimes if your business isn’t going the way you want it financially, or you want more business or whatever, you have this idea that you have a broader, a broader lane, more cars can come in it.

[00:02:15] Kris Ward: But in fact, to your point, why, as you call it white gloves, if you’re doing a white glove service, or if you want to be charging a health, a comfortable and healthy amount, then you can’t be a broad service, you you can’t be, I don’t know, let me say something silly, like a fitness instructor for everybody you’re going to do in that case, you might want to be dealing with a fitness instructor for men losing their beer belly in their 40s or whatever just very whatever very specific. I’m not a fitness instructor. So I did not give that a good 

[00:02:48] Megan Vaughan: Yeah, I think it comes down to in a lot of ways trust, if you’re spending a lot of money, who are you going to trust to help you with the thing that you need help with?

[00:02:57] Megan Vaughan: Do you want someone who specializes, who’s done this thing in and out, [00:03:00] who has a process they’ve taken clients just like you through this process? Or are you going to take someone who’s I’ve worked with a whole bunch of different industries and, I got a ton of different results.

[00:03:10] Megan Vaughan: And so you’re taking a gamble. They could be great, but there’s a sense of trust. And I think that inherently you’re just going to find the other specialized person more credible and it’s going to be easier to trust them. 

[00:03:23] Kris Ward: Yeah. And trust because of the volume that they had. That’s one of the things with us, when we’re working with entrepreneurs and getting their time back and letting them scale their business and finding, hiring and onboarding a virtual assistant, we traditionally don’t work with new businesses.

[00:03:38] Kris Ward: We work with more developed businesses and we do that for a number of reasons, but nonetheless, and I think to that point, what happens is then when I’m dealing with somebody who’s been in business 10, 15 years, they realize, Oh, okay. She gets me. She, this is the only type of business she deals with.

[00:03:53] Kris Ward: She knows. And also they, in that case, they feel a sense of safety where they’re like, Oh, I’m not the only one still [00:04:00] working way too many hours at this point in my journey, 10 years in, this is what she does. So clearly she has a solution for this because this is what all her clients are facing. They’re all 10, 15 years into the business and now figuring out.

[00:04:13] Kris Ward: They need to have some streamlined processes and backbone to support the virtual assistant. So I think as I give myself business therapy here, I think it also educates the consumer perhaps on the bigger problem too, because when you start niching down, you start showing Oh, you’re not the only one.

[00:04:30] Megan Vaughan: Yeah, I would totally agree with that. And I think from just in general, it creates, going back to safety, it creates safety for the client because they know what to expect. It’s about setting expectations. If we look at why a lot of, especially if you’re someone who maybe does group programs, we see that people don’t have a good experience with a lot of those things.

[00:04:49] Megan Vaughan: That’s because they don’t have the expectations aren’t clear because the marketing was too broad because they’re, the results were too broad and people have a different idea about what success looks like. And so part of this niching [00:05:00] down is really about understanding what outcome you can actually get people and so by narrowing the type of person you’re working with, the type of results you can get, you can create a more compelling program promise or an offer outcome as I like, what outcome are you actually getting people that you can promise them and you can only get there by really refining what you’re doing, who you’re working with, who is best fit for that.

[00:05:23] Megan Vaughan: So yeah. That sets the expectations of if you meet, if you are this person and you have met these criteria points, you can expect to get a particular result by doing this X, Y, and Z with me, and that’s how you, that’s actually how you end up standing out, because there are a lot of people who just I’m a nutritionist.

[00:05:41] Megan Vaughan: I’m a graphic designer. I’m a copywriter. But if you’re someone saying like I’m gonna add 50k to your sales page through x and y mechanism or whatever that’s going to be like oh dang like I know exactly what I’m gonna get that speaks exactly to exactly what I’m looking for things I’ve tried that aren’t working.

[00:05:58] Megan Vaughan: I think this is gonna work for me. [00:06:00] That really helps people so like self select and set the expectation on this is going to work for me or this is not what I want to do at all. 

[00:06:08] Kris Ward: Yeah, I think you bring up some good points. So really what you’re talking about is the more clear the description is of the problem and the people you’re dealing with.

[00:06:16] Kris Ward: It shows us that we get from ABC and D and on. And I think you said some really good things, The outcome, then we’re like, Oh, this, if Kris is helping people with entrepreneur entrepreneurs that have been in business 10 years that have either had not had VA or burned through a couple of VAs and just don’t have the time to delegate or train them.

[00:06:34] Kris Ward: Oh, good. So far I’m meeting three of these four boxes. Okay. So then you’re going to, and you frame it in a different way than I’ve heard before, because we all aggressively come at these things on the sales or conversion perspective, but using that word trust, I think really simplifies it, makes it more powerful.

[00:06:50] Kris Ward: They’re going to trust the fact that I’ve described their problem with such clarity because that’s what I do very specifically. So now they can see since I [00:07:00] got the definition so clear, there is going to be that trust of the outcome. Exactly. Said, my friend, said. I think the other thing you said, a key word I wrote down here was when you’re going broad.

[00:07:13] Kris Ward: I know for me, I was just talking to somebody yesterday a new client was signing on with us and she was saying she’d had this experience that didn’t work out before. So she was asking me more and more questions and she had joined a mastermind. And I think most of us have succumbed to that. And that’s exactly it with a mastermind.

[00:07:30] Kris Ward: It’s I never really did understand. He said, what is the outcome? What, when will I know it’s successful? And are we dependent on when we show up just who’s talking in the room that day or who dominates the room or what is the goal of the mastermind? And I think for me, I always thought I was just a flawed human being and not very, doesn’t play well with others.

[00:07:48] Kris Ward: Cause I didn’t have a lot of patience for that. But I think now to redefine it. And make myself feel better. 

[00:07:55] Kris Ward: It was that it was too broad. 

[00:07:58] Megan Vaughan: That’s been my experience in [00:08:00] any group program, any mastermind. It was entrepreneurs getting together and what it really was a bunch of new people who haven’t been in business longer than two years who are flailing around and I just, I’ve been in business a lot longer, maybe I do have my struggles, but I can’t relate anymore because I’ve been in business so much longer.

[00:08:19] Megan Vaughan: I’ve gone through a lot of those mindset shifts. I’m just, we’re just at different stages and it would have been beneficial for the person running it to say, no, this is for newer people who haven’t really worked with a ton of clients or just really setting the parameters around this is who it’s for.

[00:08:36] Megan Vaughan: And this is the type of things we’ll be talking about. Then I could have been like, Oh, not for me. Yeah. It just helps people have a better experience overall. And you can still cast a wider net. And this is where what I say niching is really in the offer. So let’s say you help entrepreneurs, scale sustainably, whatever that means, right?

[00:08:55] Megan Vaughan: Yeah. But each offer is going to, should have its own outcome and very specific [00:09:00] person that you are targeting. And your overall messaging speaks to the identity of, I want to attract a certain type of person. Maybe there’s people who are just not as far along on their journey, so I have an offer that’s geared more towards them.

[00:09:12] Megan Vaughan: But there’s still, it’s still the identity of the person that I really, you know, that I want to work with. And so each offer should, niching happens in the offer. The offer is really what drives that real niching aspect. And, it’s unrealistic to say that, your whole business. You just can’t get, there’s just too many people.

[00:09:29] Megan Vaughan: Honestly, I’m trying to intellectualize this. There’s just too many people. Jenny Craig no longer can say, I’m going to help you with weight loss. No, it’s I’m going to help you with weight loss without giving up the foods you love. They’ve had, okay. Just in general, we have to get more specific, and it’s the easiest way for service providers to do this in their offer.

[00:09:48] Kris Ward: Okay, that’s a good point. Yeah, and I was thinking about fitness too, because I think at any point, no matter who you are, at some point in your life, you’d want to lose five pounds, right? So what you’re saying is even if [00:10:00] you’re a fitness person or nutritionist, whatever, I’m helping somebody lose weight is who am I helping?

[00:10:06] Kris Ward: Are they in their twenties? Have they just had a baby? Are they trying to lose their dad body? And then you’re also the person that could be saying, okay, you’ve lost the weight, learning how to maintain that weight and not put it on the first holiday or the first time we do a lap around Christmas. That’s a whole different thing, right?

[00:10:22] Kris Ward: So there’s different ins and outs of that program. So that’s a really good point. Okay. 

[00:10:26] Megan Vaughan: We each have our strengths, right? So there is going to be some people this is really understanding where your zone of genius is. Okay, like just Going along with the weight loss thing, you know You have people that have been athletes who just got out of shape And so teaching that person or helping that person lose weight or get back in shape is way different Than someone who has never worked out a day in their life Working with postpartum mothers is going to be different than the 50 year old guy with a beer belly 

[00:10:50] Kris Ward: Yeah, 

[00:10:51] Megan Vaughan: so it’s really looking at what your experience is who you like to work with and understanding who? best benefits from the type of work that you do. I love working [00:11:00] with newer people, but my skill set is better toward, is very geared towards people who’ve been in business at least five years, who have clients meet certain criteria. Doesn’t mean I can’t help a new person, but I have to, the amount of work it takes for me to get them to the, to what I’m can do it’s just it’s so much work on my part and so it’s this balance of yes you can help everybody but who do you want to who gets the best benefit with that you don’t have to sell your kidney to make it work yeah if i have to drag you know there’s a lot of things about Like it’s not just a paycheck, it’s not like a heartbeat in a credit card, like they’re not an ideal client, right?

[00:11:36] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:11:36] Megan Vaughan: So it’s really understanding who’s actually going to benefit from what you do and actually get the results. 

[00:11:42] Kris Ward: And I think as I hear you talk, making sure that you think you’re niched down, but I guess how do we know when we could be niching down more? So even someone said that to me, it’s okay.

[00:11:55] Kris Ward: I tend to work with entrepreneurs who have been in business, oh my gosh, usually most of them have been in [00:12:00] business like 10, 15 years. That’s the type of people I’m dealing with, just by luck, right? But I wouldn’t, we don’t usually deal with them in five years or younger for sure. Five years is a pinch, but anyhow, I’m dragging the story out like my grandfather used to.

[00:12:10] Kris Ward: So here we go. 10, 15 years. I do find in that group that most of them are coaches, consultants, that type of thing. They have a service where they provide or share knowledge and they’re really pumped up by their clients. They’re delivering that kind of service. I have a few clients who are whatever in business type stuff or academic type things, but for the most part, they’re coaches, consultants and stuff.

[00:12:32] Kris Ward: And I do notice the sub theme in them. A lot of them are marketers, right? So should I be niching down even more in my messaging saying we do this blah, blah, blah with marketing coaches. It doesn’t really impact what I’m doing. I do the same. It just happens to be the type of clients I attract and I do have fun working with them.

[00:12:48] Kris Ward: So when do you take a look and say I should be niching down more or I’m not enough or what level do we know that we’ve niched down to? Like where’s the math on that? 

[00:12:57] Megan Vaughan: I think it’s an art and a science, right? [00:13:00] Because if we niche too far, there’s gonna be five people worldwide total that will fit into it, and that’s not a sustainable business.

[00:13:06] Megan Vaughan: So it has to be fishing in the right pond, and then each offers the lure, right? Okay. I’m trying to catch a particular fish. 

[00:13:15] Kris Ward: Each offer is the lure. That was really good. Write that down grasshopper. Okay. Very good. Okay. 

[00:13:21] Megan Vaughan: Yeah. And I think that, it’s personal, right? It depends on what you’re doing.

[00:13:25] Megan Vaughan: If you’re trying to grow and scale a business, you’re going to be using scaling activities, website, sales pages, ads. And so you need your messaging to work for you. And they’re not converting then obviously there’s a messaging problem. There’s something I mean, there’s there could be a lot of problems, right?

[00:13:39] Megan Vaughan: But right there’s going to be a messaging issue meaning something is not dialed in enough And I think the biggest tell is that you’re getting objections like pricing not right now You know, you’re a commodity because you’re not standing out Enough. So people are just comparing you against other copywriting, coaches, other marketing [00:14:00] experts.

[00:14:00] Megan Vaughan: You’re not known to solve a particular problem. So I think when people come to you specifically when you’re getting that, when the people that come through are, every, like the conversations you’re have, you’re having are high quality. They’re high invest, highly invested. They buy, yeah.

[00:14:13] Megan Vaughan: Then you know that you’re niched well enough, you’re positioned well enough, but when you’re getting a lot of those objections, there is there’s clarity needing to be done. You just need a little bit more on that front end. And I very much am for do that on the front end, have your content and your marketing do that heavy lifting.

[00:14:27] Megan Vaughan: So you’re not sitting there in sales trying to convince people. If you ever feel like you’re convincing people, I think that’s a tell that there’s a little bit more work to be done on really figuring out. How to position yourself and then how to communicate it because sometimes it’s really just you’re just not communicating it very well 

[00:14:43] Kris Ward: yes, there are so many different ways we can do this wrong.

[00:14:45] Kris Ward: I will give you that okay, so let’s recap because I think you brought up some really good points is If you start getting comments you know the pushback is the price because now we’re the pushback is the price We’re not identifying then that this is a specialty [00:15:00] offer because now whatever dish soap is dish soap We’re just looking for the Which, which grocery store is it cheaper?

[00:15:06] Kris Ward: So your point is it’s not so much diagnostic, but if that’s the feel you’re getting and people aren’t going, Oh my gosh, this is really, I really do need this. And even it’s a matter of, okay, how can I swing it or financially can I, let me look into this, but just the whole, eh, the price is higher than I thought because the value isn’t, the specialty isn’t there.

[00:15:26] Kris Ward: The value isn’t appreciated. You haven’t distinguished yourself from anybody else. So why would I pay more? 

[00:15:32] Megan Vaughan: Exactly. I think we can all tell the difference between someone who’s okay, that’s more than I thought. I have to budget a little bit for it. I’ll come back. 

[00:15:40] Megan Vaughan: And someone who’s just I don’t know.

[00:15:42] Megan Vaughan: And they’re just hemming and hawing about it, so I just it really boils down to. What’s your conversion rate? Are the conversations you’re having high quality highly invested people? Are you attracting interested people who aren’t committed or invested people who are like ready to take action, ready to buy?

[00:15:58] Megan Vaughan: It’s just really identifying [00:16:00] where you’re on at that spectrum, it’s hard to get to a hundred percent. There’s always going to kickers that happens. 

[00:16:05] Kris Ward: We’re never going to, let’s be honest, we’re never going to get to a hundred percent for sure. You’re being hopeful there, but let’s just throw a little bit of dash of reality in here.

[00:16:12] Kris Ward: Okay, so what do you think are some of the things that we miss, the biggest stuff we miss? Cause we don’t know what we don’t know and you seem to have a refreshing clarity on this. I think it’s not talked about enough. So I find this very enlightening. What are some other things that you feel like we’re just not talking about or we all just missing the boat?

[00:16:32] Megan Vaughan: And it sounds really obvious, but most of us just don’t talk about our offers. We just, we let people assume oh, my LinkedIn header says that I do copywriting for SaaS companies or blah, blah, blah, okay, but you’ve talked about your dog, you’ve talked about some business lesson, you’re in a mastermind.

[00:16:50] Megan Vaughan: I, in the week’s worth of content, I have not seen one thing of you actually talking about your offer, your methodology, anything like that. You may have a client story, [00:17:00] but you’re really, that’s a hope and a prayer. You’re hoping someone just lands on your LinkedIn and just read does like a whole dump.

[00:17:05] Megan Vaughan: Just read your whole thing for an hour and a half and they’re sold. And that’s just not the reality. The reality is that we need to be talking about how we work with people, the shifts that we help make, we help get people, how our methodology our IP, whatever it is, what makes us, why does it work when clients work with us when they’ve tried X, Y, and Z and it’s not working?

[00:17:24] Megan Vaughan: Why does it work with us? And so we really identifying that and talking about it. And just saying I actually offer this. Do you want it? It sounds super obvious, but so many people don’t. 

[00:17:35] Kris Ward: Maybe this is more I’m going to tell you as you sit there and talk about it being super obvious I think what happens is, I think it’s I don’t know, like a turtle pop in its head out.

[00:17:43] Kris Ward: Like you think, okay, I’ll put something out there on LinkedIn. And then you feel a little salesy okay, I’m selling instead of just talking. And then you pull back and I’m all about systems and strategies, but then you realize, huh, it’s been a while since I talked about this because I don’t even have, everything we do is systematized, but it’s Oh, that’s [00:18:00] not.

[00:18:00] Kris Ward: Cause it’s Oh, I don’t want to sell. And it’s really interesting. Cause I know for us, we tell, I think it comes up from time to time, but we, I, and I humbly say this, not arrogantly, we do something that’s very different because we really calm combined maybe four or five different career paths where there’s virtual assistant agencies, but they just give you a VA and you’re not set up for it. 

[00:18:20] Kris Ward: They don’t know anything about your business. They throw someone at you and nevermind that you, they make them sign non disclosure agreements. So you think you’re paying them six bucks an hour and they’re getting two. So we don’t take the income from the virtual assistant at all.

[00:18:32] Kris Ward: We just find hire, and onboard for you because it’s it’s easier and then we can get to the real work and we were good at it. There you go. Then we get to the real work and the systems and there’s people out there that just do that. But we do that in combination with finding the virtual assistant. We also help you with your calendar and there’s productivity places and they just do that and the calendars.

[00:18:50] Kris Ward: Turns into be like a Weight Watchers thing that’s quite annoying and very tedious on the calendar. And none of those things I think go well in isolation. That’s why there’s really [00:19:00] three big aspects to what we do, but other places are just doing them in isolation. And you’re right, I don’t talk about that enough because I guess somewhere in my head I feel like I look like I’m fighting with the virtual assistant agencies and being negative about that.

[00:19:14] Kris Ward: But I think as much as you say it’s obvious, our modality is very different than what’s out there. And also the virtual assistants love our leadership program. They’re so excited about it because we’re teaching them how to be confident and be heard and be peers. And so my clients say, Oh my gosh, I feel like I have peers instead of subordinates.

[00:19:32] Kris Ward: It’s a whole different thing. And the VAs love it. You’re right. I don’t talk about that enough. I talk about other aspects or things of, Hey, stop running around and trying to crawl out of burnout again. Here’s why you’re going through that. So it may be obvious, but somehow, I don’t know. I think you need to remind us on Mondays because I forget for sure.

[00:19:51] Megan Vaughan: Yeah. And then the thing is, that’s the differentiator, right? Because you always have to stop and think am I referable? If so, can someone actually talk, like if [00:20:00] someone’s asking about something I do can someone actually say oh, you know what Megan is the person for this or Kris is the person for this, if I hadn’t known about that, someone’s I’m looking for a VA or whatever.

[00:20:10] Megan Vaughan: I’d be like, oh, I don’t know. There’s a few people that, work with VAs, I wouldn’t have had a good answer for that. But now it’s oh, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She has an actual the way she works is like, she does X, Y, and Z. 

[00:20:20] Megan Vaughan: Yeah. And it’s way different than how other people do it. And that helps me actually refer the right people to you.

[00:20:25] Megan Vaughan: On a lot of different levels, that niching. It really just brings more of the right people to you. You’re connected to the right people. It just, it’s really about expectations because it really, are you referable? Are you easily referable? I think that, yeah, that’s really the goal here. 

[00:20:41] Kris Ward: I think I talk, I’ll say that with my background in marketing, I’ll say that to people where I’ll say, look, if you’re not clear.

[00:20:48] Kris Ward: Then somebody can’t, you can’t build a tribe because they can’t run off to somebody else and say, you’re right. Oh, Megan does this. You’d love to talk to her because when people say, oh, I’m really good when I get someone in front of me and they’ve got 15 [00:21:00] minutes to, do vomit on them, their sales.

[00:21:02] Kris Ward: La. This is what we do. That’s fine, but that’s not marketing because you have to be able to give something clear and concise that somebody else can go say, Oh my gosh, you got to talk to Kris. She does this. You have to talk to Megan. She does that. So I think of that when it comes to marketing and I know one leads into the other, but I think.

[00:21:19] Kris Ward: It ends up under the umbrella of marketing and I think we’re not paying enough attention to the fact that about it niching down. That’s what I think you’re shining a light on here. We’re starts with us. It starts at home. Let’s niche down and that would make the marketing more effective.

[00:21:34] Megan Vaughan: Definitely I never understood the whole like sales is better than marketing and this is better than branding. It’s a system and all works together. You have to get that branding and marketing working so that on the sales end. Like, why make the sales harder than necessary? Everything works together, and when one part of that system fails, it all, it hiccups.

[00:21:54] Megan Vaughan: And you feel it. It’s really about making sure everything is working at the right time. [00:22:00] And, yeah. Or working, doing that front end of just being clear about what it is you’re even selling. If you’re not clear about what you’re selling, Your audience is not clear about what you’re selling.

[00:22:07] Megan Vaughan: Like, why would they buy? Confused people don’t buy. We know this. So maybe there’s one confused person on the planet that’s been like, I’ll buy anyway. 

[00:22:14] Kris Ward: But I think your point is good because it’s almost like a car. When you’re saying which is more important, sales or marketing, it’s which is more important, the engine or the tires?

[00:22:24] Kris Ward: It doesn’t matter because now it’s not going, right? 

[00:22:27] Megan Vaughan: Exactly. 

[00:22:27] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:22:28] Megan Vaughan: What good are sales if they’re all wrong people, or you’re eating every minute of it, or you’re doing a bunch of, giving a bunch of refunds because no one’s getting good results, 

[00:22:35] Kris Ward: yeah. 

[00:22:35] Megan Vaughan: Or just not making it at all. 

[00:22:37] Kris Ward: Can you even enjoy going online or LinkedIn, or do you just see holes in everything?

[00:22:43] Megan Vaughan: It depends on the day, mostly it’s the gurus that get me, just the shallow, top, high level, grass is green type content that, you know, and you can’t look at those people as, oh, this is what I need to follow, it’s you can’t base your brand strategy off what Apple’s doing because they are so large, they’ve built Yes.

[00:22:59] Megan Vaughan: [00:23:00] Of all that goodwill. They can do whatever they want. 

[00:23:02] Kris Ward: And you can’t relate to it. I always give that to people. That’s my pet peeve. When people come on the show, I’m like, don’t give me a friggin apple comparison. Cause that’s that’s like talking, I, what I’m doing here on earth compared to Mars.

[00:23:12] Kris Ward: Like we can’t relate to it. It’s just not, doable. Oh, don’t even get me started. Yeah. And I think too, it just gets frustrating. I lose my patience. Yesterday I was talking to someone and he was following this very complicated system where there’s all these lists and more lists. And it, oh my Lord, it was convoluted.

[00:23:32] Kris Ward: And the whole process is reorganizing lists. And so he said he got buried in the list. This is his productivity guru. And so he spent 12 hours on Sunday and went down from 3000 things on his list to 4000 things on his list down to 300. And he’s really proud of himself. I’m like, you’re not a professional list maker.

[00:23:49] Kris Ward: What do you actually do for a living? What is that? How is that helpful? You spent 12 hours clearing a list. You shouldn’t just taken a piece of lit that piece of paper on [00:24:00] fire and moved on. So you’re right. Sometimes the high level gurus just make things really glorious. There’s this big gap between us and them and it’s a foggy path. So you can’t see what’s going on, but it’s just, it’s noise. 

[00:24:12] Megan Vaughan: Yeah. And I think just with LinkedIn specifically, people are just afraid to stand out. They don’t want to rock the boat. 

[00:24:18] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:24:19] Megan Vaughan: Just. Lots of educating don’t like I’m like, I don’t want to learn how to be a copywriter. I’m not gonna I don’t want to learn how to do my books.

[00:24:26] Megan Vaughan: I don’t care what a spreadsheet does. What can you do for me? Because at the end, like when we’re writing or selling it’s what’s in it for your ideal client? What’s in it for them? Why did Why should they care? And there’s, I have a hard time commenting on a lot of stuff, just because it’s just cool, great information.

[00:24:43] Megan Vaughan: I don’t see people bridging you’re talking about this thing, but I have no idea how this applies to me, if I’m the right person for you, or how this relates to what you do. And so it’s thinking about whatever you’re talking about, how does it connect back to what you’re actually helping people do?

[00:24:57] Megan Vaughan: Because otherwise, it’s super disconnected. And I think [00:25:00] that, people are trying to be relatable and trying to build that personal brand. But in the attempt of doing that, it’s just really disconnected. Information is living on an island, and then you fall into that trap of a likable expert.

[00:25:12] Megan Vaughan: Of, oh, you know a lot about something, but I don’t really know what it is you do. I don’t know what I would pay you for. 

[00:25:18] Kris Ward: That’s a really good point because I just thought sometimes that I was a flawed human being because I’d look at a post and think I want to comment and support this person, but there’s nothing to say because it’s just this general overview.

[00:25:27] Kris Ward: Let’s say they’re talking about LinkedIn and they’re a LinkedIn whatever expert, which it seems like there’s a lot of them these days that I’m like what were you doing five years ago? Suddenly you’re an expert at LinkedIn, but anyhow, and then you’d be like, here’s five things, work on your profile, be engaging, whatever.

[00:25:41] Kris Ward: So I’m like, okay, good reminder, like thumbs up. I don’t know. It’s. Say, I want to chime in. I want to show you is here, but I don’t, I just knocked everything over everyone. But I don’t, I thought it was lacking on my behalf, but now I’m feeling all big on myself because what you’re saying is there was really nothing for me to comment.

[00:25:59] Kris Ward: There [00:26:00] was no meat in there for me to sink my teeth into. 

[00:26:03] Megan Vaughan: Yeah, it’s, yeah, there’s such top level grass is green no shit, Sheryl. I said, I don’t know if I’m supposed to put this on here. Sorry. Yeah, that’s okay. Yeah, it’s just, I think I very much lean into stop caring about the vanity metrics, necessarily.

[00:26:18] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:26:19] Megan Vaughan: Sometimes I get three likes on a post, that gets me sales. And that’s what I really like 

[00:26:23] Megan Vaughan: to say. So really creating content that speaks to the nuance of where your ideal client’s at and the niching down, that helps you really create content that like someone reads it and they’re like, holy crap, this person’s in my head.

[00:26:38] Megan Vaughan: They’re all flying on the wall. How do they even know this about me? That’s how you get to that level. 

[00:26:44] Kris Ward: You bring up some really good points because I get that when I’m talking to people or if I’m doing a video or if I’m doing a podcast and say, Oh my gosh, you were in my head, Kris. And then I think something happens when we write because you’re right.

[00:26:55] Kris Ward: I think we tend to write to the many instead of the one or we tried to be more [00:27:00] generic because we’re writing and be more polite. And I know one of my frustrations with blogs, I remember what I call my dark years when I was running around like a crazy person, and you’d see a blog about how to avoid burnout or how to whatever, work less hours in your business, and it would say stupid, insulting things like, number one, set a time to leave and then leave.

[00:27:19] Kris Ward: Listen, you, if I could, here I am at midnight, got up at five. Oh, okay. Pick a time or I just thought it was so dismissive and insulting. It didn’t solve the problem, but, and I don’t know why I just accredited that to bad blogs, but you’re right. We’re doing a scaled down version of that in our content on social media.

[00:27:38] Megan Vaughan: Yeah. And I think it maybe depends on the audience, but I don’t like being talked down to. Yeah, I’m struggling with sales, but I’d rather someone talk, say I I know you tried X, Y, and Z, and this isn’t maybe it didn’t work out for you. Here’s actually what’s happening. Break it down.

[00:27:51] Megan Vaughan: I think this is yeah, just don’t share the insights. Like they’re just saying. You’re bad at sales. You’re like yeah, obviously. 

[00:27:58] Kris Ward: Oh, I used to hate that too. Or [00:28:00] they’d say no one to close the sale. When is that? Like how, thank you. I always compared it back to fitness again and saying, it’s like saying, oh, you’re overweight. Oh, you know what you should do? You should move more and eat better. 

[00:28:09] Megan Vaughan: They consider losing weight. Yeah. Good job. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I think it’s about understanding the challenge or the goal that your ideal client is having, but going a step deeper, why are they there? 

[00:28:20] Megan Vaughan: Why is it happening?

[00:28:21] Megan Vaughan: What have they tried and why didn’t it work but why does it work when they work with you? What are you doing differently? And when you start connecting those dots for them reframe something, If you can get someone to, to shift a belief, you’ve done 90 percent of the work. That’s the hardest thing is getting someone to change their mind or think about something differently.

[00:28:41] Megan Vaughan: And you have already established yourself as that credible expert. That person who can help them get all the way just by doing that. And so it’s about analyzing the pro like, what the problem through their eyes is doing. And then connecting it to, how do you actually help people make that shift?

[00:28:56] Megan Vaughan: Calling it out’s great and all, but what do we do about it? What do you do, [00:29:00] like, how do your clients do it’s all of that, and it’s all of that. 

[00:29:02] Kris Ward: Megan, I don’t have time to talk to you. I’ve got about five posts I have in my head now that I must get done, okay. Oh my gosh. Oh my heavens. Okay, we could talk to you all day.

[00:29:12] Kris Ward: Oh my heavens. All right. Megan, where could people find more of your brilliance? 

[00:29:16] Megan Vaughan: LinkedIn. That’s where I spend most of my time. You can find me on TikTok, but LinkedIn is where I usually spend night. 

[00:29:22] Kris Ward: Okay. We will be checking you out on LinkedIn for sure, a lot more. Okay. We’ll put this in the show notes.

[00:29:28] Kris Ward: People, share this show with someone else. Do not have your business buddies banging around. Megan dropped some real value bombs here and really very simple, but profound and important content. So thank you again, Megan, for your time. I appreciate you. And this is very helpful. Thank you.

[00:29:43] Megan Vaughan: Thank you so much for having me.