Boost Your SEO: Leveraging Pinterest as a Powerful Search Engine! with Meagan Williamson

You can find Meagan Williamson at:
Pinterest: https://ca.pinterest.com/rowhousenest/

#KrisWard
#PinterestSEO
#SocialMediaStrategy

Meagan Williamson Podcast Transcription

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day, and I am your host, Kris Ward.

[00:00:04] And today we have Meagan Williamson in the house. Now listen. We don’t do this very often. This is her, not her first time. We have coaxed her to come back because it was, there’s such depth and substance to our original conversation. I felt we had to continue it. We did. And you will know why let’s dive into it. Welcome to the show. Meagan.

[00:00:28] Meagan Williamson: Thank you, Kris. Thanks for having me again.

[00:00:31] Kris Ward: Okay. So Meagan, you are a social Pinterest marketing expert. And really what I would say, you can just sit there quietly while I’ll talk about you to you, Meagan. What I would say is, really, you focus on Pinterest, but there’s so much more depth to this.

[00:00:49] It’s social media as a whole, and it’s really got the spine and the backbone of strong marketing in a way that I have not seen it before. So I’ve been dabbling with your work, getting into it and taking a look at it. And it’s just got such a healthy strength and framework to marketing that it’s really making me see for sure Pinterest completely different.

[00:01:12] But even social media as a whole. So what I would say to start with, I think what I’ve learned from you is let’s start with Pinterest. And what I would say is I’m really seeing this as something that a is overlooked by a lot of people. And so whenever I’m now getting into it, now I look at it and think, ah, do I have time for this right now?

[00:01:32] Cause I’ve got these big projects on the go. And then I’m like, you know what? This nobody else is really tapping into this as much as they should. So I do not want to leave this unattended and B I’m seeing is much more of a search engine than a social media platform. And that’s really changing the game.

[00:01:49] So why don’t we start there with the little bit that I now know?

[00:01:53] Meagan Williamson: Yeah, I love all the things that you’re absorbing. It really is true. I think that the, those of us who have been in marketing a long time know that, Social media is very powerful. Pinterest search engines, they’re all very powerful, but none operate on their own.

[00:02:08] And, I think there’s lots of different people that say this, but I have adapted in my 10 years of working in content marketing, Pinterest marketing and working with so many different business owners, small businesses, solopreneurs up to huge corporate brands that are household names, is that

[00:02:26] there’s always the if somebody asks for marketing advice, it’s the well, it depends. The more, the more you say it depends. I need, we need to gather some more information. And so what I often say to people when they discover me is you come for Pinterest. You search. And you tapped into also this idea that there are a lot of misconceptions about Pinterest, but Pinterest really is a search engine.

[00:02:48] It is, not, and from day one, it has been designed by, in terms of the technology as a search engine. So it’s more like Google, it’s more like YouTube. So people are actively heading there with the intent to discover ideas, whereas social media, when we think about the traditional

[00:03:06] Kris Ward: Okay, can I jump in there for a sec?

[00:03:07] Meagan Williamson: Yeah, of course.

[00:03:07] Kris Ward: I want to unpack something really important. We talked about this in the other show, but I just, for, if in case you missed that, go back and check it. Listen to that show. It’s a must. But what I want to unpack here just for a split second is because I had the false sense too that it is a search engine, but then I’m like, I’m in there searching for recipes.

[00:03:26] Great. I get a lot of recipes. That’s fantastic. So I didn’t see me and my people, my world in there because they wouldn’t be in there searching. But what I did learn from you is you could be searching on Google and then Pinterest comes up as an answer.

[00:03:40] Meagan Williamson: That’s right.

[00:03:41] Kris Ward: So that is even more powerful because it’s not even I don’t even need to be in Pinterest because I just like, yes, okay.

[00:03:47] I know. I listen. Look how smart I am. I know Pinterest is a search engine, but to me it was a search engine for recipes or home design or weddings. Yeah. But I could be, somebody could be keying something in on Google. And Pinterest will be the answer. So I guess to me, it surpasses Pinterest. It’s a search engine that’s going to come up wherever people are searching. Really, if it comes up in Google, I see it almost as equal to Google.

[00:04:14] Meagan Williamson: Let me take your, take you out a step further and blow your mind, but I don’t know if you’ve been keeping up with the Google changes. But Google has released massive updates about the way that content will rank on Pinterest. And to some people, this could potentially be their downfall for others who are active on social media and have always been using things like Pinterest or creating video.

[00:04:39] This will be an advantage, but google has is now waiting the importance of social signals. So we aren’t just creating content anymore for it to go out and, goes out into the world and that’s fine. You’ll rank for SEO. Now Google, the algorithm, my understanding. And this information is, fairly new and fresh social signals have always been a thing.

[00:05:02] And what I mean by that is that when you create, say a blog post or landing page, you create pins and you share it to Pinterest. It actually sends a social signal to Google that information has been shared to another platform. And this provides almost like a signal or clout that your content is shareable.

[00:05:22] So you can imagine that if you are sharing your business, your valuable content, your podcast episodes to Pinterest, and they are going viral there, they will send strong social signals to Google to better rank and have your content rank higher in search on Google. And this is actually something. That is becoming more and more important.

[00:05:45] It’s becoming weighted at a higher importance now that you’re not just publishing content and letting it go and die there, that it’s highly shareable content. So Pinterest has been designed from day one as a place where you can share your amazing content, your ideas, your whatever it is you want to share to Pinterest is that it sends social signals to Google and will help you not only drive traffic from it all is interconnected.

[00:06:12] It’s like a bowl of spaghetti, all those things, but it’s becoming more and more popular important and I think it’s like the concept of contagion, right? Like some, why does a news article go viral? It’s highly shareable. You’re sending it to your friend. You’re sharing it. If it’s about business, you’re sharing it with your besties or you think about, when you share something, why do you share it?

[00:06:34] You’re like, this is valuable. I want to read it later. I want to share it with my community. I want to share it with my people. So those social signals are more important than they ever were before for even your Google based traffic or search engine traffic.

[00:06:48] And that makes sense because it’s not in silos.

[00:06:50] It’s almost like Google saying, I don’t know, it’s like when you listen to them talk about the entertainment industry, it’s Oh, this person brings in a lot of box office. So we’re going to bank on them to build the movie around them. And so what you’re saying is Google saying, Oh, this person’s really big on Tik TOK.

[00:07:04] This person’s really big on Pinterest. So that’s right. That’s not a silo. If they’re big there, let’s make sure that we look. Like we know what’s going on in the world because we’re Google and now we’re saying, Hey, that’s got some social juice and we’re getting, okay.

[00:07:20] That’s right. And the word social juice is probably the, it’s just like layering in that something is taking off.

[00:07:27] So we’ve had I had a creator in my program and she published content that was specific Mexican dessert recipes. And that recipe was coming up, in terms of this, it was related to an event or holiday and she pinned it on Pinterest. It started to go viral on Pinterest and it sent, it almost juiced it up.

[00:07:47] Like you said, sent those signals to Google and she went from being like ranking on page three for that dessert to likes number two. Within the recipe was only a week old and she said 100 percent I, that would not have happened if it were not for the fact that it went viral on Pinterest. So there’s all these like interconnectedness and I think as the user, as our people, as our audiences change, how we use Google, how we use social media, we’re going to see this become more and more immersive and all these things are interconnected. So if something’s taking off on threads or Instagram or Google, it’s going to have these knockoff effects on these other platforms. And that is how people are going to be growing their audience is when they’re leveraging. This like simple idea of making highly shareable content.

[00:08:42] Kris Ward: Okay. So then that opens up another whole can of worms. So dear Lord, you cannot keep up. Okay. So then what I’m learning from you is there’s a whole different game of sort of social search now.

[00:08:57] Meagan Williamson: Yes.

[00:08:59] Kris Ward: Okay. That’s the end of my question because all I know is that key word there. I know social search is a word I should know, but we have, I’m now done talking. Let me tell you.

[00:09:08] Meagan Williamson: Okay, I’ll take over, tag me. So social search is something that has been talked about for a few years, but we’ve really seen huge advancements in it in the last, like we have marketing research, business research being conducted, and we’re just. Let me break it down really quickly.

[00:09:25] So what we have is social media platforms. And so yes, we’ll call like Instagram is so is a social media sharing app Facebook, Pinterest gets lumped in there. But we’ve already set, talked about that. It’s functions more like a search engine. But some technology has been created from the beginning as being functioning as a search engine.

[00:09:45] So like we talked about Pinterest, people have always gone there searched for Summer vacation ideas, they get delivered up summer vacation ideas, and that is how it’s always been designed. YouTube is the same. Google is the same. Now, what we are seeing is that traditional social media apps like Instagram and TikTok are probably what people are talking about the most, but we’re also seeing it on LinkedIn.

[00:10:10] We’re seeing it on threads, is that people are no longer the yes, the bulk of people still go to Google to locate and find and discover things. But what we’re seeing is more people are heading to platforms like TikTok to search for things. It might be restaurant ideas. It might be dinner ideas. It might be how can I make money from a side hustle?

[00:10:36] It could be how to start, how to start it could be anything how to start.

[00:10:41] Kris Ward: Let me jump in. I heard somebody, what they were pointing out and it was a good point is say if I Google, I want to go to Italy on vacation, right? And I Googled that I’m going to get ads and get information as a lot of.

[00:10:54] A lot of info to consume. If I did that on TikTok, whether, yes, we know the whole world’s falling to pieces, TikTok staying or not staying in the U. S., I don’t know. But anyhow I’m in Canada. I don’t even know. We’re not worried. Yeah, we’re not worried. But anyhow, when you key in on TikTok and say, Okay. I want to visit Italy.

[00:11:13] Then you’re going to come up with people in Italy giving you Airbnb views of their little home in 30 second videos. So you’re going to get sort of soldiers on the ground information and you don’t have to dig through all the content. So those two, I understand, but how is that going to now impact? Like Instagram or LinkedIn. And what am I searching for on LinkedIn?

[00:11:37] Meagan Williamson: So what we’re finding is people are searching for products, services and solutions on social media apps in a way that they weren’t before. So if you’re looking to buy say home, like you want to buy custom earrings, or you want to buy a pet portrait for a friend who just lost their beloved family dog, is that people are using platforms like TikTok and Instagram to find people who do that thing that you’re looking for. And so all of the platforms are scrambling to integrate search capabilities to pair people with the accounts and content they’re searching for. So let me give you

[00:12:16] Kris Ward: to keep up with the other ones.

[00:12:17] Meagan Williamson: Yes. To keep up with Pinterest, YouTube and Google.

[00:12:21] Now. TikTok seems to have the most rapid advancements, and I do think it’s because younger people are frustrated that when they go to Google and search where to stay in Positano, Italy, they get a lot of bloated results that aren’t helpful, long winded blog posts that were written in 2015, and so they aren’t getting the answers they want quickly.

[00:12:44] I also think that TikTok offers this idea of short form video that kind of gives you a quick, immersive experience so that you can be like, do I want to watch other videos on this? So you get to like test drive it. I also think it appeals to this idea, much like that, the same reason why I’m drawn to Pinterest is that when I search for a recipe, I can tell by the look of the salad or the pasta, if I’m going to make it.

[00:13:12] If it looks like it has lobster, I know I’m not going to go out and buy lobster. But if I can I don’t live in. I was going to say, I don’t live in PEI. So I don’t have quick access to affordable lobster. That’s right.

[00:13:26] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. It has to be affordable. Hold on. Let me jump in for a second. Because sure.

[00:13:29] Sure. I think what you’re saying too is I find TikTok a blessing and a curse because I’m into rock climbing so I can keep rock climbing in a TikTok and then I’ll get tips and it’s like quick, concise. And even on YouTube, it’s Oh, I don’t need a six minute video. I just want to know how to do this hold. I want 30 seconds at the same time. I find it really stressing like a whole bunch of people yelling at me. Cause as you go through the videos, you got different things coming at you. And I find it hard on my brain, but you are right. The searchability there is really tight. I’m here to tell you shame on me.

[00:13:59] I didn’t know you could search stuff on Instagram. So could I keep recipes on Instagram and things come up?

[00:14:04] Meagan Williamson: Yes. So if you go to your explore page and you look up a fresh lobster pasta or best lobster rolls, P I technically their search technology is not as good as obviously. So Google, YouTube, and Pinterest from day one have been engineered to be search engines.

[00:14:24] So they have the most sophisticated systems to deliver up the most relevant content. Now, TikTok is quickly catching up, but I would say that LinkedIn is people are also using it. They’re increasing its searchability. Actually, have you know, I’m sure you’ve noticed that when you Google certain topics you’re in Google, you’re searching for something business related, a LinkedIn article.

[00:14:48] Kris Ward: Oh, that’s true. Okay. Okay. Okay. I didn’t even think of that.

[00:14:51] Meagan Williamson: I guess you’re out of juice. Social juice. So it’s this idea.

[00:14:55] Kris Ward: Yeah. Okay. That’s perfect. Hold on one sec. But can we, and I guess when I think about what you say, if I keyed in business coach in LinkedIn and the search bar, I would get a bunch of business coaches, but I didn’t see that as helpful because you’d get like 45, 000 or something stupid.

[00:15:09] So I think to your point though, we’ve got social juice. And then we have, because sometimes we all forget that these are just businesses as well competing for other, they’re just businesses trying to keep their business afloat. And so now what you’re saying, which I think makes perfect sense is the other platforms that are not as search engine driven.

[00:15:28] Heavy and sophisticate like Pinterest, YouTube, and TikTok. The other ones like LinkedIn and Instagram, they have to catch up because that’s the missing piece.

[00:15:37] Meagan Williamson: And that’s, they weren’t originally designed to operate in that way, but they do know that their audiences want it. So they know that like seashell jewelry or, Cat accessories.

[00:15:49] If I’m looking to buy a custom cat tower for my mom as a surprise, and I want to buy it locally from a small maker, I can go to Instagram and try to find somebody who’s here in Toronto, Canada, who makes those things instead of going to Google where I’m going to get a lot of big brands, or we know Etsy has also turned into a bit of a wasteland.

[00:16:11] So what I, what the overarching idea here is that. We aren’t just creating social media content anymore. We are creating content that is valuable and highly discoverable. So what we know about Pinterest, like I feel like it’s positioned me perfectly because I’ve always understood this idea of making my content easy to discover because of my skills with Pinterest.

[00:16:37] And now it’s so applicable to like, Tik Tok was very easy for me to flip over to. And you can see in Tik Tok stats, how many people found this video from search. And I have videos where 96 percent of the 100, 000 people all found it by searching for particular phrases because I study how my audience looks for ideas related to Pinterest.

[00:17:04] So I hand deliver up. Hey, I have the knowledge. You’re looking for it. I will make it discoverable by using the right SEO, but you have to adapt. So Instagram is they’re figuring out how their search capabilities works, and they keep releasing announcements that they’re that, that Instagram is highly searchable and threads is highly searchable.

[00:17:25] And it’s true that if you go to and I would encourage anyone listening just spend some time going to different platforms and searching. So even in business, you might be looking to outsource a particular thing. Maybe you need someone to help you create videos for ads. So you go to LinkedIn and you’re searching for somebody.

[00:17:42] And what you might do though is instead of going right to them, you might find some of their articles. Maybe they’ve written a LinkedIn newsletter or articles on LinkedIn. And so the search function will help you get to their content to decide, Hey, am I going to? Does this person deserve my attention?

[00:18:00] Should I send them a connection request or send them a message and ask them if they’re, they have capability of taking on someone right now for some extra freelance work. So there’s so many different ways, like just remember, so like LinkedIn is more business oriented, Instagram.

[00:18:15] Kris Ward: Hold on. I did want to jump in though, before we get too far, break it down.

[00:18:18] Cause you got so much content. I have to put speed bumps on you. I think what you’re showing, which I think is often not articulated in other aspects of social media conversation is social media. It tends to be like high school and a popularity contest. Oh my gosh. If I get a bunch of likes, a lot, and then we have, yes.

[00:18:41] Mark people to come on and say, look, it’s not about the likes. It’s not about how many thousands of people follow you. It’s about the conversions. And wouldn’t it be better to have a hundred people follow you and 25 convert. So then we’re like, okay, sober up. Cause it can be very defeating when you look and somebody else got all these likes and accolades and stuff.

[00:18:57] And you think I’m not doing this right. Yes. Thank you mom for commenting on my post, but that’s not what I’m looking for. Or my aunt one time, my God, on Facebook, she wrote under something I was, it was about business. And she’s You’re so pretty. Thank you. Would you?

[00:19:10] Meagan Williamson: I’m so proud of you.

[00:19:12] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Thanks. Thanks. I’m not whatever. I’m not selling the pretty and it’s not that pretty. But anyhow I think what you’re putting your flag on the hill that you’re putting your flag on is really bringing it to a deeper level of this is more than people liking you. This is about SEO, and this is about connecting it so that wherever people are, when they have a problem, you are the solution.

[00:19:42] And I think this has more substance and depth than most social media conversations that we have. So really I would lean it toward, it’s like a, SEO, social media conversation. And I really just wanted to tap into that and highlight it because I think this is a very different conversation than we’re used to having with social media type people.

[00:20:03] Meagan Williamson: I don’t think many people are actually talking about it so much so that I created an entire virtual event to talk about it in February and I was a bit surprised. I think some people are intimidated by the phrase SEO and I get that it sounds techie, but if you actually just boil it down.

[00:20:19] It’s making social media content that allows the people who are searching for what you are an expert in or for what you provide or do so they can find you. And Hey, isn’t it beautiful to put out a blog, a real or a Tik TOK video or a Pinterest pin today and be discovered in six months or a year.

[00:20:39] Like the wonderful thing about making your content highly discoverable or that people can find it later by literally just using their language and mapping their intent to your solutions is that I can be rewarded not just in the next 48 hours with some likes and comments and hey, that was valuable.

[00:20:59] Those things are nice. But what I love is that I can take my entire summer off. People join my email list every day. I have people sending me inquiries, people buying my products for things I did last year. And that is where social is heading we and it’s not just because people like me are saying it.

[00:21:17] It’s because that’s what users expect from social media. Like you said, it all loops back. We don’t really trust Google as much as we used to. We’re not finding the relevant content quickly enough. So young people who aren’t as patient. Who are using their phones to make decisions very quickly. We know that people under the age of 30, about 43 percent of them prefer platforms like TikTok as search engines.

[00:21:46] They don’t trust Google. So that’s why Google is changing. Google is saying, okay we have to rise to the occasion and change results to go with our people. But the thing is that I also too, this has been rooted in me from day one. I come from a psychology background, Kris. I am not, I was not born a salesperson.

[00:22:05] Yeah. I worked in fine dining and I worked in a restaurant and I can argue that taught me a lot about sales.

[00:22:10] Kris Ward: I did too. And that does teach you a lot quickly.

[00:22:13] Meagan Williamson: You learn quickly, you learn from your mistakes, you move on. And you walk up to a table and they could be meeting their biological parents for the first time.

[00:22:22] They could be breaking up. They could be getting engaged. All the things.

[00:22:25] All the things your regular customers teach you something, your high rollers, your, the people who have never been to a restaurant that, you know, where anything was over 10 before you learn something from all of them.

[00:22:37] But what I would say is that I think. That I naturally have always been drawn to creating. I don’t really want to be one of those people that pops up in front of somebody and says, Hey, you need Pinterest. I would prefer for people to say, I’m really curious. You are the perfect example, Kris, right?

[00:22:55] You yourself, you said, Hey, I’m really interested in this. And I noticed that my competitors aren’t there. And I love this idea of having marketing arms that work for me when I’m not working. I’m really intrigued by this and interested, and I feel like nobody’s talking about it. So I would like to learn about it.

[00:23:13] Hey, I would love to teach you about it instead of me being like cold, jumping up at a party and saying, Hey, Kris, you own a business, right? You need to be using Pinterest. I just, that’s not me.

[00:23:24] Kris Ward: And okay. Let me jump in though. Cause again, you say so much stuff I have to unpack. I try to wait, but I can’t.

[00:23:30] So here’s the thing. I think. For many of us, I think what you’re saying is profound because again, we jump up and we post something on LinkedIn or wherever you go and then you think, Oh, that didn’t fly. It’s Oh, I want, I thought that would do better and it didn’t. And so that, but what you’re saying is on Pinterest, we’re like planting seeds and then we get to watch them grow and you don’t put a seed in the ground and come out at dinnertime and go that didn’t work.

[00:23:54] You’re like, Oh, all of a sudden you’ve got. So there is that with Pinterest. And so since you’re doing it, you might as well be doing it today and get the rewards not only six months from now, but moving forward. And I think to your point, when we talk about SEO for often, I think it does have such a bad name and it really always, to me, it sounds like it’s like a password, because you do find out like we, for a while we were talking about team building or whatever, And then no, we should be, they’re using the word outsourcing.

[00:24:21] Okay, no, people are using virtual assistants. So that’s fine. We figured it out. But in the beginning, you’re always like, oh you say I have to use the words my clients are using. But then it’s ah, it seems we’re talking two different languages or I didn’t know this is the word that they’re using all the time now.

[00:24:38] And so we’re running around chasing SEO. So I think. People then get discouraged, whereas on the quick hit of social media, where you go, Oh, people like that, you think, okay, I’m doing something right. Versus this guessing game of finding the magical passwords. But I think to your point is taking the heavy end of SEO, understanding that really, Even if we do it poorly, we’re then at least putting things out there, like on Pinterest or Google or whatever that will, they’re in it, they’re in the ground.

[00:25:09] They will grow. Maybe they’ll grow slowly. Maybe they’ll grow quickly, but they will continue to grow.

[00:25:14] Meagan Williamson: Yes. So the garden analogy is like the perfect example. And just think about some people they don’t, they want low maintenance, they don’t want to grow any seeds. They want they want a garden they plant one year, and in, five years you have this beautiful, lush native garden that takes care of itself.

[00:25:31] Or maybe you have a lot of shade, so not much will grow. I think that there’s different types of gardens, but the reality is that we all know, especially as Canadians now, maybe a country that’s hot all the time, like Mexico. That’s different. But when we’re talking about a garden here in North America, there are seasons.

[00:25:49] So in January, nothing grows outside. But we do know gardens have seasons and you plant different things to do. Some is low maintenance, some is higher maintenance, some is fussier. But the reality is that you will have the returns. You plant something. I just planted a new clematis and I know this year it might be cute, but it’s not.

[00:26:09] But next year, it’s going to be spectacular.

[00:26:12] Kris Ward: And so she’s talking to me, she’s talking to me like I’m a gardener. I know this to me. I always said was planted seed. That’s all I know. I know there’s trees and I know there’s grass. I don’t know anything in between. Okay. Don’t you try to help me. me, but really I’m like a prison in the yard.

[00:26:29] I do what they tell me like yard work, but I’m just saying talk to me like I’m your equal. I know more about SEO than I do gardening.

[00:26:37] Meagan Williamson: I think the biggest take home is that I’ve always been, and it’s because of my personality. So even when I didn’t have a family and I was doing this just for fun and I was blogging on the side, I was working full time as a school psychologist, I had eight weeks off every summer.

[00:26:53] So I’ve driven my car all the way to Vancouver Island and back, got a dog on the way home. Then the next summer I jumped in my car and I drove to Fogo Island and all the way back. That’s off the coast of Newfoundland. And so I go through periods where I had no internet access, but I was doing blogging. I was doing sponsored gigs.

[00:27:12] And the thing is that people discovered me and my blog and my side hustle helping with Pinterest every single day, even though I was on a part of Fogo Island where I didn’t have internet for five days unless I went to Mary’s tea shack. And so if you think about that personally, sure.

[00:27:29] I think that there is different types of social media that do different things for you, but I’m always going to come back to search. And that’s actually, as I’ve watched social search emerge, it’s almost a relief that I’m like, people are learning also that you can just You can make your content discoverable so that I’m not just creating something today that’s hot today that’s going to go viral.

[00:27:52] Sure, that content could be fun and there might be like something happening in the news that’s funny. But no one’s going to see it in six weeks. Heck, a year. Have you looked back at what you put on Instagram four years ago? No.

[00:28:05] Kris Ward: To your point, I’ll go view the garden analogies because I only recently learned that perennials are annuals are what you plant every year. That makes no sense to me. Okay. Yeah.

[00:28:16] Meagan Williamson: Perennials come back every year and an annual, you might go pick it up at a garden center, but it dies in November and yeah.

[00:28:23] Kris Ward: So I think what you’re saying, I’m trying people, I’m trying, I think what you’re saying is the content is it’s long lasting. It’s like perennials, right?

[00:28:30] So instead of, you’re right. Where it sounds all very good when I put something out on LinkedIn is okay, it did really good today, but that’s it. It’s done. It’s over. It’s not going to live and breathe. It’s not going to sustain. So it’s a short term cycle. So I think, again, I find that really profound and powerful.

[00:28:47] What you’re talking about is if I have to do the work and I do, then I might as well make it searchable. three, six, nine months from now. And so then I am building, compound interest on it versus one offs.

[00:29:00] Meagan Williamson: And I just think Kris, like how many podcasts or, pieces of content you created a year or two years ago that are still highly valuable, highly amazing, that could help somebody today, but they might not find because it hasn’t been made to be discoverable.

[00:29:18] So I, so then you just start thinking about it like that, that you’re like, Oh, my goodness. And I, I don’t want to overwhelm people, but I see it all the time where we get into this, like default, like the default is to do certain things in our content creation process. And I get it.

[00:29:32] We do some of those things because they’re necessary evil, but the way that I see things As more fruitful is engaging in a multi prong approach and I put more of my eggs in the basket that are going to be, this will be valuable in a year. Someone can find it in 2 years and it’s like.

[00:29:51] I just see so many people to getting so burnt out and it’s

[00:29:55] Kris Ward: and that’s what we’re all about.

[00:29:57] We’re about, getting, being efficient and getting time back on your calendar. So you went to your point is I’m going to make one piece of content. It might as well serve me for the next two years instead of the next two days.

[00:30:07] Oh my gosh. Okay. Meagan, we could talk to you all day long. This could be a six part Netflix series. Oh my gosh.

[00:30:15] Meagan Williamson: Yeah. I love talking about these things.

[00:30:18] Kris Ward: Swing to begin here.

[00:30:19] Meagan Williamson: I’m gonna pick pinterest. Here’s the Netflix version. I’m gonna drive to PI to take advantage of lobster season, to get a lobster roll that I haven’t had since I road tripped there in 2013. Yeah maybe that’s, and we’ll record our conversations in the car.

[00:30:36] Kris Ward: I got a place for you to stay. You just come on over. We can do this. Okay. So we can assume people can find more of your brilliance, frankly, in any search engine, but especially Pinterest, right?

[00:30:46] Meagan Williamson: Yes. Yes, of course. All the places. My email newsletter is the best place for you to learn from me.

[00:30:52] I, but I am, I’m, I am in all the places because that is just smart marketing, but yes, highly discoverable in most places. And I love talking about these things and I love the thoughtful questions that you have. And obviously it’s a joy always to get chatting with another brilliant mind who sees things differently.

[00:31:11] Kris Ward: Flattery will get you everywhere, Meagan. Okay. All right, people, this is deep stuff here and it’s never talked about enough or at all, as far as I’m concerned. So share this with a business buddy for sure. Do not let them floundering about by themselves. Please help a friend out. And to that, Meagan, thank you again so much for such depth and helpful conversation.

[00:31:35] And we will see everyone else in the next episode.