Humanized Content Marketing: Creating Audience-First Connection! with Scott Murray

Episode Summary

You can find Scott Murray at:
Website: https://www.scottmurrayonline.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scmurray/

Scott Murray Podcast Interview

[00:00:00] Kris Ward: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Win The Hour Win The Day, and I am your host, Kris Ward. And today in the house we have Scott Murray, and he is a humanized content advisor. Yes, apparently we now need those. Okay. It’s a new day. All right. First off, Scott, welcome to the show. 

[00:00:16] Scott Murray: Thank you. Thank you, Kris. Good to be with you and your audience. 

[00:00:19] Kris Ward: Okay. Humanized content advisor. So I get what we’re going for here. It’s funny that we now need that, but apparently we do. So first of all, at a higher level, we’re gonna, we’re gonna dive into your stamp formula. I’m really interested in sharing that. But humanized content advisor, just so people get an idea, what’s the theme here?

[00:00:40] Kris Ward: What are you leaning into? Why do we need one of those? 

[00:00:43] Scott Murray: There’s a couple of things there. One, there are people that have seen all the buzzwords around humanizing content today, including humanized content. But then there’s all those other words, right about authenticity and personalization and relationship building.

[00:00:58] Scott Murray: And I think that there’s a lot of [00:01:00] people out there that agree with that, but they’re still left going great. So now what? Yeah. Yeah. How do I do that? And I’ve actually worked with companies that know they need to do that and they’ve got social media copy or something else and it, and sometimes they just need to see it a before and after and they’re like, okay, now I get it.

[00:01:17] Scott Murray: And then they start doing it quite differently. But the fundamental difference is we’re constantly thinking of humans throughout the process. Not only the humans that we’re trying to reach, but we also look at ourselves and make sure that we’re entering the content creation process with good intentions that our other side is going to care about.

[00:01:34] Scott Murray: And we’re also doing that to make sure that when we create that content that all messaging, not just what’s actually written or said, but there’s also indirect messages there that are sending the right signals to that other human so that they respond in a way that we would like them to versus a lot of content today that doesn’t resonate in.

[00:01:56] Scott Murray: A lot of it has to do with the fact that as marketers we get stuck in our [00:02:00] habits around what I would just call marketing science. That makes us write content and produce stuff with very much a corporate marketing mindset. And then the content gets written that way. And people who are really looking for all those things we just talked about, the personalization, humanization relationship building, that stuff just isn’t gonna cut it. ‘Cause fundamentally about that. 

[00:02:19] Kris Ward: Okay, lemme jump in there ’cause these are a lot of words. So give me an example. What is it? Because we, you don’t know what we don’t know. And when we’re doing something, how do I know that I’m writing words that’s gonna resonate with the other side, or that I’m doing it from a corporate mindset?

[00:02:33] Kris Ward: Like where, what does that look like when you see it and you’re like, ah, they don’t, they’re missing the boat here. 

[00:02:38] Scott Murray: I think for one. We all know what marketing copy looks like when we’re in a consumer mindset, 

[00:02:46] Kris Ward: right? 

[00:02:46] Scott Murray: We get that spam in our email box all the time that look, that could easily be read as a radio ad.

[00:02:52] Kris Ward: I see. Okay. 

[00:02:53] Scott Murray: Not, yeah. And it’s not written like somebody is actually talking to us like we’re trying to help us. There’s a fundamental difference in communication. [00:03:00] And because we know that, there’s research that proves that your audience may read that content with a voice in their head that sounds like a radio announcer or somebody, right?

[00:03:10] Kris Ward: Okay so let me unpack that. So what you’re saying is, I get this, you think, all right, I got a business. I wanna sound like a big boy or girl, and so I’m gonna make this ad sound really good. I’m gonna put it on wherever, right online. Our definition of what we might think sounds really good is what we’ve been inundated with, like commercials or whatever we see and we’re following that broader model, which then even the bigger companies actually who are doing it well, aren’t following that model anymore either, something pops in my head, I don’t know why, is like a Casper ad for Casper beds and then they have on the website the engineers talking to the camera like, oh my gosh, this is what irritate me. Like they’re just human people. Suddenly making the mattress world sound interesting to me. ’cause they were telling a problem they solved that I didn’t know we had, and then I was like, oh, this is fascinating how they think.

[00:03:57] Kris Ward: Even though I didn’t think any of that was [00:04:00] interesting to me, but they were just conversing with me as if they were in my house. We’re having a coffee and I’m learning about what they do. Yeah. So that’s the two difference versus, the broadcast of I am a high-end professional and come to the masses, versus me talking.

[00:04:16] Kris Ward: Talk what I always say, instead of talking to someone instead of talking at them. 

[00:04:20] Scott Murray: Yeah. Or with them. Talking with them or presenting. 

[00:04:23] Kris Ward: More presenting. 

[00:04:23] Scott Murray: Very much yeah. Okay. 

[00:04:25] Kris Ward: Alright. So we got that clear. ’cause that, because I always think when people say, you should write content that resonates with the audience well, yeah, thanks.

[00:04:32] Kris Ward: And how, what does that look like? Yeah. Okay. So I want an example. Okay, perfect. So let’s dive into your stamp framework. Talk to me about that. 

[00:04:43] Scott Murray: Yeah. Along with 20 years of experience in content across all types different types of companies and audiences, I’ve also maintained a pretty heavy focus on studying communication.

[00:04:55] Scott Murray: Which is really where this is all at. I took, I was in the process of taking the course put out [00:05:00] by the Content Marketing Institute and the a MA about the, was it the professional certified marketer? Cer certification and in that, Robert Rose says content is communication, and that’s just a really good way to to put it together.

[00:05:13] Scott Murray: So I took kind of the things that I felt that over that time I thought at least gave everybody a foundation for either improving existing content or creating content that was going to be human first, or audience first and just put those pieces together just so it was memorable, ’cause it’s just so much easier when you have something to remember versus just like you were saying, a generic philosophy.

[00:05:37] Scott Murray: Know your audience or utilize something. Yeah. 

[00:05:40] Kris Ward: Yeah. Okay. So what is the stamp formula? 

[00:05:44] Scott Murray: So the stamp formula is self-awareness. 

[00:05:46] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:05:47] Scott Murray: Two-way communication. 

[00:05:49] Kris Ward: All right. 

[00:05:49] Scott Murray: Adaptability. 

[00:05:51] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:05:51] Scott Murray: Meaningful language and predictive intelligence. 

[00:05:55] Kris Ward: Okay. Alright, so self-awareness. How do we know if we’re [00:06:00] being self-aware?

[00:06:00] Kris Ward: What does that look like? 

[00:06:02] Scott Murray: It’s interesting ’cause we were just talking about content. Being, communication and when, and we were also talking about when we know someone’s talking with us or at us, right? And we’ve all worked with people. I’m sure that we thought, geez, if this person a little bit better self-awareness before they spoke, they would be a much, this would be a much better situation.

[00:06:21] Scott Murray: And that’s the thing as marketers, because we get so stuck in our own kind of processes, we don’t have that moment where we stop and think, wait a minute. Why am I about to send this out? Am I really trying to help somebody or am I just trying to fill a number on a spreadsheet? Am I just doing this because this is the way we’ve always done it, or, what’s really my purpose here?

[00:06:40] Scott Murray: And a lot of times if we do more to answer that question and have that self-awareness before we, in this case speak or produce that content we’ll find ourselves in a much better starting position when it comes to really making, at least not only a connection, but differentiating ourselves from everybody else’s out there, just spewing stuff out like they always have.

[00:06:59] Kris Ward: [00:07:00] Yeah, I think you would make a good point because self-awareness, of course, we think about like I, my self-awareness, what are my hot buttons? Where are my strengths? Where are my weaknesses? But at the same time, if I’m producing content. And you say am I helping someone? It’s really easy to get caught up in the urgency, like what we do.

[00:07:19] Kris Ward: Okay. We, find, hire and onboard virtual assistants as a bonus to one of the things that we do with our clients. And why that so matters is you just can’t, you just cannot, you can’t get, you just, your calendar fills up. You have to have some help. And I believe team is a philosophy, not a number.

[00:07:37] Kris Ward: So you can have a team of one. Now, if I’m not self-aware, I can be either coming at this with a frustration and urgency because I see so many entrepreneurs just trying to get past this next thing and all they do is add more hours to their formula or try to go faster or work longer. And then my self-awareness has to take a check because ah, I [00:08:00] get so passionate about that it can come out like I’m lecturing you.

[00:08:04] Kris Ward: Or I’m just on the bandwagon with everybody else. Because I’ve said it a thousand times. Yeah. So then it just sounds hey, this lunatic is over here, just pitching that. Whereas if I try to slow it down, being self-aware that I talk rather quickly and slow it down and make it a more meaningful explanation.

[00:08:24] Kris Ward: Because I think also too, when you tell the same story over and over again, whatever it is your service is. 

[00:08:30] Scott Murray: Yeah, 

[00:08:30] Kris Ward: they start to get to a shorter and shorter version of that.

[00:08:34] Kris Ward: And you’re missing the depth of why you did it. ’cause you’re just on repeat.

[00:08:39] Scott Murray: Yeah. 

[00:08:40] Kris Ward: Yeah, I, so I think there’s more to that self-awareness and probably we’re giving credit to.

[00:08:45] Scott Murray: Yeah. It’s a human thing, yeah. And I try to stress that a lot when I put it in this context, and I’m not talking about these horrible problems that marketers have. This is just human behavior that we pull into marketing. Yeah. I remember, a big part of my work over the years was [00:09:00] was definitely on the creative side, constantly trying to figure out ways to help us, whatever company I was working for differentiate itself, but I still had to have those moments before I sent it out to the world where as a creative I might be going. This is great. 

[00:09:13] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:13] Scott Murray: And then I thought, oh, wait a minute. I’m not making this for me.

[00:09:16] Scott Murray: I had to get better at things like that. So it’s always helpful. 

[00:09:20] Kris Ward: Yeah. Fantastic. Okay. Two-way conversation. That sounds obvious, but I think we missed the vote on that too. 

[00:09:27] Scott Murray: Yeah, really with two-way communication, we’re thinking about the best way to maybe look at it is Brafton, the big marketing agency that puts all the good stuff out.

[00:09:35] Scott Murray: They labeled our modern marketing era as the relationship era. Okay. And their main point was back in the eighties and nineties, that was like the, basically the advertising or the marketing era. Where we were broadcasting one way communication because we had captive audiences and we just had to go through the TV and radio and tell everybody how great we were and hope that they pick up the phone or call or something like that.

[00:09:59] Scott Murray: But [00:10:00] digital marketing changed the game because now we’re not in control anymore. The audience is in control and they’re gatekeeping, they’re judgmental, and they have more choices and things like that, and they really want to us to start talking to them more like human beings that are really trying to help them and not just get something from them.

[00:10:17] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:10:18] Scott Murray: And the two-way communication is two things, basically one, if you’re like on a social media channel, you really are trying to post things that will generate a response and create conversation. That’s why it’s social media, right? But it’s also a frame of mind where we’re keeping keeping that audience in mind and keeping their response and maybe their interpretations in mind, which is also why it’s aligned to self-awareness a little bit.

[00:10:42] Scott Murray: That we’re not just throwing this out there and hoping that something great happens. We really are taking more of a conversational approach to how we’re developing the content. So it feels more like we’re talking, like you were saying earlier, with them versus at them. 

[00:10:58] Kris Ward: Yeah, [00:11:00] and we, I think over and over again, we forget that social and social media is not only 50% of the word, but it’s the first word.

[00:11:07] Kris Ward: Yeah. And so just making sure it’s understandable that it is very conversational and you’re right about building relationships, that’s the thing I was listening to somebody and they were talking about how so many of us don’t get information off the news anymore. And the problem with that, I never thought about this, is when you’re watching the news, you have opposing opinions and maybe you, whether you agree or disagree, there’s some insight there.

[00:11:28] Kris Ward: But if I’m looking at something on YouTube or any of my algorithms and I believe in this, then I’m only going to get this. And so now my world becomes very funneled into this one belief or this one thing. And so we do really wanna make sure we understand that these now are intimate conversations because, I love to talk about fitness hacks and health.

[00:11:49] Kris Ward: And so now I’m having people come up in my reels every day that like, I’m certain that they know me because I, I, they’re talking to me about whatever hack I should be having for breakfast over a [00:12:00] coffee, and I’m in their home and I’m all this other stuff. So it really is conversational. Yeah.

[00:12:06] Scott Murray: Yeah. And that’s a, a really good point. There’s, it’s really just a matter of, just where our start, our starting point is from. I’ve. I think there’s even been really good examples early on of digital marketing experts trying to reframe this in a way that gets us thinking that way.

[00:12:23] Scott Murray: Especially when we think about the word relationship, right? It’s like how many relationships have we built where we did all the talking, or at least seemed like the only opinion that mattered was ours. 

[00:12:33] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:33] Scott Murray: Or the best example I think is one that I, I remember seeing in a digital marketing course several years ago, put on by digital marketer.com that they were always framing it from okay, don’t ask for marriage before you even go out for coffee.

[00:12:46] Scott Murray: And get to know them over time. And I still think that has relevance today, even all these years later, even more

[00:12:51] Kris Ward: yeah. And even the conversation part over the years, we’ve learned too that when you’re good at sales, you’re not the one doing all the talking. It is a conversation, and [00:13:00] you do have to hear what their needs are before you go.

[00:13:03] Kris Ward: Here I go la, blah. I got all your answers, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think we could talk all day about that. All right, frames, your framework is stamped. Self-awareness. Two a conversations, adaptability. Okay. Now we gotta be adaptable. We have so much we have to be here, Scott. Okay. Adaptable. 

[00:13:19] Scott Murray: What do we, yeah, so go ahead.

[00:13:20] Scott Murray: So adaptability, I really is rooted in company culture. 

[00:13:24] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:13:25] Scott Murray: And it’s interesting, one of the reasons why I went out on my own is ’cause I worked for a lot of companies that were not 

[00:13:31] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:13:31] Scott Murray: And then when I started interviewing people through podcasts that were also, even doing better than I was.

[00:13:38] Scott Murray: I found out they left for the same reason. And they were talking about how a company that always wanted to stay locked in its ways. At the same time, were not letting these talented individuals infuse what they knew about marketing or trends or whatever. Yeah. Because that’s not the way they did it.

[00:13:53] Scott Murray: Yeah. And at the same time, they were always having to justify their existence in that company by making their [00:14:00] work match what this company was still clinging to. 

[00:14:03] Kris Ward: Yeah, 

[00:14:04] Scott Murray: Things change so fast as we know, and it’s really amazing just the little things, the nuances and content that have evolved that you miss if you’re, if you, if your brain basically says this is the marketing way to do this. And we’ve all seen this happen with blogs and social media and even podcasts to some degree that we get locked in on that. We’re just turning it out. Meanwhile, other people are looking at maybe brands doing things differently and we miss that and we miss those opportunities ’cause we just feel safer just letting our brain say, this is how you do it, and not evolving at all.

[00:14:37] Kris Ward: I think tying self-awareness or some kind of awareness into adaptability, because I know, like right now, let’s say on LinkedIn and the example’s gonna be outdated really quickly, but it’s changes all the time. So for the longest time you’re putting your post, you had to put an image of yourself up.

[00:14:52] Kris Ward: People see you, they know you, blah, no, and trust, blah, blah, blah. And then. Right now there’s a trend where we’re all just making quick images of [00:15:00] chatGPT, like here’s a quote off, a bulletin board or the side of a highway, and no problem. Now, when I first started seeing that, this has happened before, where I think, oh, they don’t know what they’re doing because we’re over here and we’re supposed to show images of ourself, like you would see things that were different than the status quo, and you just thought, oh, or my naiveness, or.

[00:15:20] Kris Ward: You’re right. Locked in or just funnel tunnel vision on something. I would be over there going, oh, they’re, they’ll learn, right? Yeah. And then you find, then somebody will tell you three weeks later no, we don’t do this anymore. They don’t, ’cause they can’t repost or reshare as much of your images on it, so we’re gonna do this now instead.

[00:15:37] Kris Ward: Oh, so there’s people over there, they were ahead of the game, not behind it, right? So being. I think constantly I like to think I’m very adaptable, but I think you, nowadays, I think if you went to bed and you slept in an hour later than usual, there could be freaking 17 more things come up with AI that you’re like, I’m sorry, I was late to getting breakfast, and I don’t know what the hell [00:16:00] happened.

[00:16:01] Kris Ward: So true. Shoot me, I slept in for an hour and now I’m six months behind on AI stuff. So I think we almost have to be AP adaptable with a vengeance. 

[00:16:09] Scott Murray: Yeah. I think that’s true. One of the e examples I point out a couple of the examples I point out in the book is one I think about think about how many times over the last several years you’ve, if you look, spend any time on YouTube, how many thumbnails are people making ridiculously extreme shocked faces with their mouth open.

[00:16:27] Scott Murray: Yeah. Yeah. ’cause they’ve all told themselves, this is how you do it. If you make a thumb nail, this is how you do it. 

[00:16:32] Kris Ward: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:32] Scott Murray: And there, there’s some, there is some truth to that. Yeah. 

[00:16:35] Kris Ward: And, 

[00:16:36] Scott Murray: but what’s interesting is while that’s happened for so many years, I found a study from Mr. Beast who, we all look at as like one of the key guys to, who knows how to do this.

[00:16:45] Scott Murray: He did research that showed when he did shocked faces with his mouth closed, it actually performed better 

[00:16:52] Kris Ward: Oh. 

[00:16:52] Scott Murray: Than with his mouth open. Okay. There’s that. And then I think SEO too is another thing. Yeah. That. [00:17:00] I, my first job in 2012, I worked for somebody that was really focused on SEO and keywords, and that was in 2012. And I still see people thinking, that’s the way SEO works today. 

[00:17:12] Kris Ward: Yeah.

[00:17:12] Scott Murray: In 2025 meanwhile, the next day I’m reading all these trends about how you can’t approach it that way, but there’s, I, I i’ve made the joke in the past. Sometimes when you tell people that don’t want to think SEO has changed you might as well have said the earth was flat or diehard isn’t a Christmas movie that they don’t want to hear it.

[00:17:31] Kris Ward: Yeah. I do know the longstanding debate about diehard. I have to tell you I’ve never seen the movie, but I do understand that the Christmas debate, and I do have people in my family who do watch it Christmas, but you know what? Sidebar tangent here for a second. I think, whatever. I get the premise of the movie, it’s gotta be better than It’s a Wonderful Life.

[00:17:47] Kris Ward: I saw that as a child and I thought, this is frigging, this is a Christmas movie. This man gonna kill himself. Come on people. Happy holidays. So anyhow. 

[00:17:56] Scott Murray: Yeah, I have to say it’s not on my Christmas watch list. [00:18:00] No, but I under, I guess if you want to throw something different in there I get it. I have seen it.

[00:18:04] Scott Murray: It’s good. But I, it, before that debate started, it never crossed my mind. Or crossed my mind that should be in there with Christmas story, Christmas vacation, or even earnest safe’s Christmas as a Christmas. 

[00:18:14] Kris Ward: I think it’s better than it’s a wonderful life. Alright, meaningful language, where are we going with that?

[00:18:19] Scott Murray: That ties a lot back to two-way communication, what we were talking about earlier. The example I like to use, I like to use pop culture a lot, just like we just were. Okay. And I think about the scene in the Truman Show where Truman, by this time he’s figured out something’s weird and it’s stressing him out.

[00:18:35] Scott Murray: Yeah. And he just wants to have this meaningful conversation with his wife about some things are going on. I don’t know what’s happening. Am I going crazy? Please help me. Yeah. Yeah. And what does she do? She turns around and holds up a cocoa jar and says, why I make you this drink? And she says it just like a commercial.

[00:18:50] Scott Murray: Yeah. And says, I’ve tried other ones. This is the best. And what does Truman do? He looks around and goes, what the hell are you talking about? Yeah. 

[00:18:56] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:18:56] Scott Murray: What does this have to do with anything? And when we talk to our [00:19:00] audiences and write content, like Meryl is talking when? When their consumer just wants a meaningful conversation.

[00:19:05] Scott Murray: Yeah. They have the same reaction. So it’s really focused on evolving our language and content where it is meaningful and we’re not leaving folks sitting around going, why are you talking this way? Or What does this have to do with anything? 

[00:19:18] Kris Ward: That is a good movie. It’s a old movie, and I’m not a big Jim Carey fan, but it’s a well done movie and I think it is shocking.

[00:19:26] Kris Ward: Like it’s, I don’t know how old it is now, but I’ve seen it in repeats and stuff. It is shocking how relevant it is. For what we’re doing now with social media. Yeah. And I often think of that movie as well, so that’s interesting. Okay. Meaningful language, predictive intelligence. Let’s see. What movie we can die tie into this.

[00:19:43] Kris Ward: It seems to be a movie theme. What are we talking about when we come with predictive intelligence? 

[00:19:49] Scott Murray: Predictive intelligence is really just trying to do more to learn about our audience versus just either surface level stuff or creating personas. It is doing more to think about what our audience has been through.

[00:20:03] Scott Murray: How can we be different so we can connect when their defenses might be up? I do have a pop culture reference. Okay. All right. So I I, my comfort show, I think everybody has a comfort TV show. Yeah. Mine is the Big Bang Theory. 

[00:20:16] Kris Ward: Oh, I have watched that 1 million times. 

[00:20:18] Scott Murray: Yeah. I watch it over and over again.

[00:20:20] Scott Murray: Yeah. Yeah. So there’s that moment where Raj is teaching Sheldon how to meditate. 

[00:20:25] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:20:26] Scott Murray: And he, so obviously the first thing he tells Sheldon is, close your eyes. Yeah, and Sheldon goes, okay, but don’t punch me. 

[00:20:32] Kris Ward: Okay, 

[00:20:33] Scott Murray: Raj is what? And he goes when I was growing up, my sister would say, close your eyes and you’ll get a surprise. And then she would punch me, 

[00:20:39] Kris Ward: right? 

[00:20:39] Scott Murray: And Raj would go, okay, I’m not gonna punch you. And he goes, yeah, that’s what my sister said.

[00:20:43] Scott Murray: And the thing that we have to remember is think about all the stuff out there, click bait and gated content and clicking on a blog we think is gonna be helpful.

[00:20:52] Scott Murray: And it’s a big advertisement 

[00:20:53] Kris Ward: right?

[00:20:53] Scott Murray: Our audience has been punched a lot. So when they walking around the internet, their defenses are up. [00:21:00] So we’re coming up, we’re thinking about that and we’re saying based on what we know of their experience, what can we do to make them lower it a little bit and spend some time with us?

[00:21:09] Kris Ward: That is well done because. You, we know, and I don’t know what’s wrong, at least with my brain, because I know I’m tired of that, that okay, if I want something, I’m gonna have to get my email address and then whatever. Yeah, I know the drill. But yet then when I have something to, I’m like, oh, you’re gonna love this.

[00:21:26] Kris Ward: I put so much work into this. You have to have this. But I forget, I’m on the other side of that and I should know you’re right. How do I get their them to stop blocking? That is a really good point. ’cause it just seems like I don’t have the reality to understand the two sides of that coin, even though I’m on both regularly.

[00:21:46] Scott Murray: Yeah, I mean there’s just so much of that. I mentioned Robert Rose earlier. Robert wrote a really good blog not long ago for rose colored glasses about gated content. And what I loved about it was I always talk about the messages [00:22:00] your content sends that’s actually not written or said, it’s just this subliminal message that is sent to your consumer.

[00:22:06] Scott Murray: Like one of the examples I’ve used in the past is if you land on a blog and the company is linked to themselves twice in the first paragraph, that is a communication signal that says, I wrote this more for my company than for you, because this is meant to be Click. And Robert had this long script, it was brilliant about what gated content says, and it was like, hi, thank you for doing this. By the way. After you do this, we’re gonna send you this resource and tell you how great it is, and then we’re gonna spam your email box and have all this urgency behind it and ask if you need more from us. It’s this long thing.

[00:22:37] Scott Murray: And it was great because it really did it was extreme, but it was all true. 

[00:22:41] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:22:41] Scott Murray: But really what gated content does is basically say to you I know you want this. Before I give it to you, you’re gonna have to give me something first. And that’s a tough sell today with everything that’s out there, especially if we filled that out before and what we got wasn’t as good as what we thought.

[00:22:59] Kris Ward: Okay. [00:23:00] So I don’t know if this is in your lane, but are you saying we shouldn’t then ask for email address to get them on our list? 

[00:23:07] Scott Murray: I think a good compromise is don’t gate the entire content piece. 

[00:23:14] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:23:14] Scott Murray: Show them up front some of the value they’re gonna get and make it good. So they go, okay, this is good.

[00:23:19] Scott Murray: If they’re gonna go deeper on this, then I want it. Okay. So at least that way they’re not completely in the dark. Okay. And you’ve at least, again, it’s putting that, 

[00:23:27] Kris Ward: yeah, 

[00:23:27] Scott Murray: it’s putting the defenses down. ’cause we’re saying, look, this is an example of what you’re gonna get out of this. 

[00:23:32] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:23:33] Scott Murray: And you’re gonna get more. If you download the whole resource or get access to the whole resource. 

[00:23:37] Kris Ward: That’s a good point. Okay. Alright. My gosh. Alright, Scott, where can people find more of your brilliance? 

[00:23:44] Scott Murray: They can find more of me talking and I don’t know if that’s brilliant, but if they like if they like what they’ve heard so far, the easiest thing to do is I’m on LinkedIn.

[00:23:53] Scott Murray: Okay. And my website is Scott Murray online. Okay. And I’ve got a a link there [00:24:00] to. On the navigation, it just says the stamp book, which just came out on May 19th. 

[00:24:05] Kris Ward: Okay. 

[00:24:05] Scott Murray: And it’s a book that goes in a lot more detail about what we’ve discussed today and how to apply that framework. It’s called Undeniably Human Content.

[00:24:13] Scott Murray: And, I really did write that to help people out. It’s only like about 160 pages and it’s there to get you what you need. And it’s full of a hundred references and pop culture references just to marry it up a little bit. And I hope people find that healthy if helpful if they get a chance to take a look.

[00:24:29] Kris Ward: For sure, and we’ll make sure it’s all in the show notes. Everybody please passes onto a business buddy. Lots of takeaways here. If nothing else, we can get to talking about movies and keep the reviews coming. We read each and every one of them and we’ll see you in the next episode. Thank you, Scott.

[00:24:44] Scott Murray: Thank you all.