Answer Engine Optimization & Subject Lines That Get Clicks! with Jay Schwedelson

Episode Summary

You can find Jay Schwedelson at:
Website: jayschwedelson.com
Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/do-this-not-that-marketing-tips-with-jay-schwedelson/id1701260891
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayschwedelson/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/

#EmailMarketingTips
#AnswerEngineOptimization
#KrisWard

Jay Schwedelson Podcast Transcription

[00:00:00] Jay Schwedelson: Super excited to be here. It’s an honor. I’m fired up and you do great things, so this is gonna be fun. 

[00:00:05] Kris Ward: Yeah. Okay, so Jay, one of the things, one of the many things you do really is I think marketing can sometimes get heavy and have a bad name. Like it’s the same conversation repurposed over and over again.

[00:00:16] Kris Ward: And I think you bring a spectacular spotlight to marketing and you almost make it again, refreshing and new again. It’s like fresh air on a spring day, and I think you do a beautiful job of giving us tangible takeaways, keeping it interesting, keeping it actionable. And so I’m just thrilled to dive in.

[00:00:36] Kris Ward: Today we’re gonna talk a little bit about email marketing and AI, but I first just wanna really be clear, there’s a lot of people talking about marketing, but they’re not doing it the way you’re doing it. 

[00:00:46] Jay Schwedelson: I appreciate you saying that. And I think in general the thing is when you go and you Google, how do I do this?

[00:00:50] Jay Schwedelson: What’s the best way to do this? What’s an industry average for this? You get all this information back that first off is like 30,000 foot view. It’ll say email marketing is important, or use AI [00:01:00] is okay, what do I do with that? Or it’ll be so sophisticated where who’s ever putting out the information says you have to have access to these seven tools and these things and you have to understand this.

[00:01:09] Jay Schwedelson: And it’s I just wanna get somebody to open an email. I just wanna figure out what to ask, ChatGPT. So I like going from the 30,000 foot level down to the 10 foot level where you could be your first day trying to do marketing or you could be doing it for 20 years and you could still get something out of it.

[00:01:24] Jay Schwedelson: So that’s my jam. 

[00:01:26] Kris Ward: You know what, that taps into one of my biggest pet peeves. You know what we do? And so when we help entrepreneurs get time back and we find, hire and onboard a virtual assistant for them, so that you have a work a business that supports your life instead of consuming it.

[00:01:38] Kris Ward: Nothing makes me crankier than when you go online and they’ll say something like, okay, how to be more productive or how to work less hours, whatever. And they say. Set boundaries and leave at five. What the hell’s that? Which, okay. Oh, okay. Good call. Okay. Then there’s an idea. 

[00:01:52] Jay Schwedelson: Exactly.

[00:01:52] Kris Ward: So to your point, a lot of, especially marketing, there’s a lot of things that are so high level. It’s yes, marketing’s important, freaking fantastic. [00:02:00] Now

[00:02:00] Kris Ward: I think one of the problems with podcasts is when you have it on your phone and you’re listening to it, it just keeps going. You don’t see the cover as much as you should. You just keep listening to the show. Okay.

[00:02:08] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah. 

[00:02:09] Kris Ward: The problem with this podcast, I’m going to give it to you people. I’m ready. You cannot drive and listen to that show ’cause you are going to be like pulling over every two minutes. You’ll get nowhere. It’ll take you 40 minutes to drive five miles. Okay? It is not a car podcast because you drop so many value bombs.

[00:02:27] Kris Ward: You’re, oh my gosh. And even if you think you’re smart and all that, and you’re like, oh yeah, I knew that, but I forgot. I knew that and I forgot how important that is. And that’s a great reminder. It’s such a tight, powerful podcast.

[00:02:40] Jay Schwedelson: Thank you.

[00:02:41] Kris Ward: It is not for driving. That’s the only thing. 

[00:02:43] Jay Schwedelson: It’s not relaxing. It is, honestly.

[00:02:45] Jay Schwedelson: And I think that’s the thing with podcasting in general. Not that we wanna get into podcasting, but the overwhelming majority of podcasts are super long form, interviews and they’re fine if you wanna take a nap, but if you’re trying to get out tactical stuff, it’s stuff. Yeah. So we keep it short.

[00:02:57] Jay Schwedelson: We try to share stuff you could test [00:03:00] immediately. That’s the goal. And that’s what we’re about to talk about here. Stuff you could test immediately. 

[00:03:04] Kris Ward: Yes. And one of the things you can test immediately, ’cause I did fumbled it, I apologize, is on subject line.com. Yeah. You have a tool where people can go in and test subject lines.

[00:03:15] Jay Schwedelson: So subject line.com is website. That’s part of my company. It’s free. You couldn’t pay me if you wanted to. Yeah. And you go there, you put on the subject line you’re thinking about using and it’ll tell you, give you a score if it’s good or bad. And it’ll actually also give you back about eight other suggestions using AI to tell you what you might wanna think about and why.

[00:03:31] Jay Schwedelson: Why do we even create subject line.com? Because at the end of the day, people have it backwards, especially when it comes to email, where they spend all this time on what’s in the email, your offer, your copy, your images, all the stuff, and they don’t spend enough time on the subject line. But the reality is, if you don’t get the email opened, who actually cares?

[00:03:47] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah. What’s in your email? So we spend, even though it’s just that one line in your inbox, you could do little things and it can radically change the outcome of your business. 

[00:03:56] Kris Ward: Yeah. Okay. Let’s dive into it. Let’s talk about email marketing. 

[00:03:59] Jay Schwedelson: [00:04:00] Yeah. Alright, so let’s talk about subject lines and what you can do.

[00:04:02] Jay Schwedelson: Okay. And this is for everybody and this is all based on, so my company, my agency actually sends out about 6 billion emails a year. So what I’m gonna share with you is based on actual sending of emails. Okay. And when we think about the subject line, people have it all wrong. The question I always get asked is how many characters should I have in my subject line?

[00:04:21] Jay Schwedelson: Should it be under 50, under 40? What? Who? That’s irrelevant. What you need to think about is the fact that people don’t read the whole subject line. You could write at the end of the subject line, Jay is a loser. No one would ever actually see it because no one reads it all. What we do is we do the social scroll in our inbox.

[00:04:40] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah. And whatever we see in those first few characters, the subject line is what gets us to have that millisecond pause to see if we want to go further. And if you look at it that way, then you say to yourself, okay, what could I do in those first few characters? So these are the different tactics that if you do in those first few characters, you will see the percentage of people opening up your emails lift by over [00:05:00] 20%.

[00:05:00] Jay Schwedelson: First one would be, start with a number. Okay. The three pitfalls to avoid for this, the seven habits you need to try here, the five biggest trends coming for whatever an actual number. And the reason the number works so well is again, it, you won’t consciously know it, but subconsciously you do a millisecond pause when you see it.

[00:05:19] Jay Schwedelson: And it’s also very authoritative. It makes it sound like they know what they’re gonna get out of it instantly. So starting with a number is the best thing you can do. Other things that you can do is capitalize the entire first word or two words. So let’s say the word new. You’d capitalize all the letters, NEW, or just in, and you capitalize the entire word just and the entire word in.

[00:05:41] Jay Schwedelson: And when you do that, again, it gets people to pause, right? And they wanna read the rest of the subject line, and then people say, you can’t capitalize on the subject line because you’ll go to the spam folder or you can’t use a question mark on the subject line, or you can’t use an emoji, or you can’t say the word free or you can’t do this, that, or whatever.

[00:05:57] Jay Schwedelson: And that’s where going online and Googling stuff is trash. [00:06:00] That is information from 10 years ago. You don’t go to the junk folder or spam folder for capitalization, special characters, emojis, the word free, things like that. That is what it used to be. You go to the spam or junk folder. If you don’t get people having a lot of engagement on your list.

[00:06:15] Jay Schwedelson: It’s a technical thing. It’s not based on the words and content of your emails. That is misinformation. Spam trigger words are, is actually a myth, and that bothers me that they get circulated so much. So capitalize at the start of your subject line. Put a number at the start of your subject line. And then also test really short subject lines.

[00:06:35] Jay Schwedelson: The mistake that we make in with our emails is we think it’s about what we’re writing. Sometimes it’s not about what you’re writing, it’s what it looks like. Meaning if you have a really short subject line, two word subject line, right? Three word subject line. After that, there’s all this white space.

[00:06:50] Jay Schwedelson: So when someone’s going down in their inbox, your email stands out a little bit because you have all this white space surrounding your email as compared to all the other ones, right? And [00:07:00] that allows it to stand out. And that’s the game. How do I get my email to stand out? Not everybody else’s. So testing these different things is a great way to increase the number of people opening up your emails.

[00:07:09] Kris Ward: That’s a, there’s a number of really important points there that I wanna unpack. First of all, I’m all about visual marketing and white space. Oh my gosh. I’ve taken courses, I’ve read books on white space, which sounds ridiculous, right? It was an empty book. No, I kid you. That’s fun. Okay. All right. So that white space, I never thought of that in the subject line, and that’s so important.

[00:07:29] Kris Ward: And I know so many of us still step over the subject line ’cause you’re like, all right, I wrote this really good thing and now I have to get, we do it backwards. I have to get somebody to open it. And I know that’s backwards. We should be putting all our heart and soul into that subject line.

[00:07:43] Kris Ward: ’cause it doesn’t, nothing matters until they open it. So there’s that. But you also bring up a really good point, like when you said name, give numbers, the top three do this or that. No. Having this myth, that capsule gets you evicted from your email. Yeah. This is where again, do this, not that your podcast is [00:08:00] incredibly helpful with these beautiful little sound bites and short pieces of information because we all run around like chicken little here, the sky’s falling and said, I heard recently oh, we shouldn’t be doing numbers anymore.

[00:08:11] Kris Ward: Maybe that was just on LinkedIn and maybe that they said it’s on LinkedIn, but marketing is marketing, so they’re probably still wrong even on LinkedIn, right? Yeah. So we just run around regurgitating information. Yeah. With no valuable or viable source and calling it gospel. And again, your show and all the content you show on different platforms is really tight, informative, and based on logistics and numbers and stats.

[00:08:36] Kris Ward: Yeah, so it’s very helpful because a lot of this stuff, I’ve been hearing different things lately. So then you just start running around avoiding it. 

[00:08:44] Jay Schwedelson: To that point you might be listening to say maybe Jay’s full of it too. Maybe what he’s saying is not right either if he, if everybody else is wrong too.

[00:08:50] Jay Schwedelson: And that very well may be true. So what should you listen to? What should you do? Here’s the reality of it. Listen to nobody and nothing. What you really want to do is think of yourself as a swimmer [00:09:00] or as a weightlifter, right? And you forget about industry averages. Forget about anything anybody’s saying.

[00:09:06] Jay Schwedelson: You wanna benchmark what your doing, let’s talk about email, for example. You don’t just send out promotional email promoting whatever it is that you’re selling. Maybe you send out a newsletter, maybe you send outran transactional emails. You have different buckets of types of email that you send out.

[00:09:21] Jay Schwedelson: You take each of these different buckets of types of emails that you send out, and then you benchmark yourself. Okay? With our newsletter that we send out, we send it on this day, we get this open rate, we get this click-through rate. This happens, and then you test one of these crazy things. I said I start with a number, with my subject line, my newsletter.

[00:09:37] Jay Schwedelson: You send it out. Now, did you do better? Did you get a higher open rate, a higher click-through rate? By doing that, did you beat yourself and benchmarking yourself in these different buckets and trying to beat yourself the way a swimmer does? Yeah. A swimmer’s really not competing against other people.

[00:09:52] Jay Schwedelson: They are trying to better their time. Every time they get in the water, they’re competing against themselves. It doesn’t matter what nonsense garbage industry [00:10:00] averages that you read out there, or some stat that you read out there or something that I say, you benchmark yourself and then you test everything. And then did it get better or worse? It’s really that simple. 

[00:10:11] Kris Ward: And that’s a really good point. I remember it sounds like back in the 18 hundreds I was watching tv. That alone is like an 1800 reference, and they were talking about having business cards and it was whatever, a, a company, staples or whatever producing business cards.

[00:10:25] Kris Ward: And they said, look, you can order 5,000 business cards here for $50. And you can start your own business. And I was like yeah, you could like you could get those bus business cards and you can technically start your own business. Those two things do not have a positive correlation.

[00:10:41] Kris Ward: And I think that to your point is we get all these pieces of information that are randomly falling from the sky. And maybe if half of them are true or none of them are true, but they’re not connected. And so I think you’re right. Nothing is all or nothing. Nothing is gospel. Nothing is abs. Very few things in this world are absolute.

[00:10:59] Kris Ward: So we have [00:11:00] to stop looking at whatever is the last person on the last platform to whisper in our ear that we know nothing of their success or credentials and start testing against ourselves while listening to do this, not that. 

[00:11:12] Jay Schwedelson: There you go. Always. Absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:11:15] Kris Ward: Yeah. Okay. That’s fantastic. So that’s the subject line. Where do we go from there? 

[00:11:21] Jay Schwedelson: So I think we should talk a little bit about AI. Okay. And how it can help you with your marketing. And I think that the when you hear AI, everyone’s oh no, they’re gonna say something complicated. They’re gonna tell me that AI’s gonna come from my job or my business, some garbage.

[00:11:33] Jay Schwedelson: I don’t care about that. Okay. Here are some simple things you could do with ChatGPT the free version that can really have a massive impact on your marketing. The first one is take whatever email that you got. Okay? Your last promotional email or your last newsletter. This is so simple. Take a screenshot of your email.

[00:11:53] Jay Schwedelson: Okay, what did you send out? Then go to chatGPT the free version, chatgpt.com, upload it and then say [00:12:00] to ChatGPT hey, this is the email I just sent out. I’m trying to sell blah, blah, blah. The audience I’m trying I reach is blah, blah, blah. I want you to act as the world’s greatest email marketing consultant.

[00:12:10] Jay Schwedelson: Tell me everything that’s wrong with this. Everything I’m not doing right, everything that I should be testing, maybe stuff I am doing right. I want you to shred this email and tell me what it is I need to be rethinking and it will blow your mind. Thank God I’m not an email consultant. ’cause I feel like they’re out of business.

[00:12:25] Jay Schwedelson: ’cause what you get back is a menu, a thing, a that you should, oh my goodness, I gotta try this, I gotta try that. It’s amazing. And I don’t think enough of us are doing that to get it, to actually give us feedback. What we’re doing is hell help me write a blog. What do you think of this subject? No.

[00:12:41] Jay Schwedelson: It’s have it critique an image. It’s too easy. Now besides for just that. Here’s the other big one you really want. Now we’re gonna get a little fancy here. So about a billion people a week now are going to ChatGPT And they are asking its stuff, right? The way you would go to Google [00:13:00] and ask its stuff, right?

[00:13:01] Jay Schwedelson: But the problem is when you go to Google search, you’re not asking it in a conversational tone. You’re asking it, very specific stuff to get a very specific answer. We’ve been trained how to use search engines, but now a billion people a week are gonna ChatGPT, and they’re asking for information that hopefully will lead to them finding your business, who’s ever listening to buy from you.

[00:13:21] Jay Schwedelson: So the thing that you really wanna be thinking about is, wait a minute, how do I get my content, my information to show up in the results to those billion people? Because it is not the same stuff that gets it to show up in Google. Okay? So forever in Google we’ve been dealing with SEO search engine.

[00:13:42] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah, optimization. People try to make their website so it shows up high in the searches. 

[00:13:46] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:13:47] Jay Schwedelson: But in AI, it’s a different game. In AI, it’s something called answer engine optimization. A EO. Alright, and who cares with all these acronyms? Whatever. Here’s the secret. What you wanna do to make your life really easy, you go [00:14:00] to ChatGPT, the free one, the free version, and you say, Hey, ChatGPT here is the web address for my business.

[00:14:06] Jay Schwedelson: You put in your URL. What do I need to do? What do I need to add onto my website? So that way when people come to ChatGPT, my content will show up. And who cares about everybody else’s, and it will blow your mind because it’s very different than what you have to do for Google. What it will tell you most often is what they are looking for is ask and answer content, meaning FAQs are now more important than ever.

[00:14:35] Jay Schwedelson: Why? Because when you go to ChatGPT you ask a question, you say, what’s the easiest way to start a new business? That is how you communicate with ChatGPT. You’re asking these like really elongated questions like you’re talking to a person even though you’re not. 

[00:14:49] Kris Ward: Yeah. 

[00:14:49] Jay Schwedelson: And then it gives you back this is the best way to start a business according to this blah, blah, blah.

[00:14:52] Jay Schwedelson: And so this ask an answer, format ChatGPT is hungry for finding these answers to these [00:15:00] questions. So if you don’t have that on your site ChatGPT is not inserting your information in those answers. But if you do, here’s the wild stat. Less than 10% of websites in the world right now are optimized for AEO for answer engine optimization.

[00:15:17] Jay Schwedelson: So you have the ability right now to leapfrog over massive companies, huge people in the category, big competitors, because their content’s not showing up in ChatGPT, ’cause they’re not optimized for it. And all you gotta do is ask ChatGPT, how do I do it? And it tells you do these five things, you do it and you win.

[00:15:36] Kris Ward: My brain actually I think just exploded. 

[00:15:40] Kris Ward: I truly thought we were gonna go a different direction with that. That makes so much sense. And it’s so simple and so easy to do and so profound. And we do have frequently asked questions on our website, but I would beg to argue that it’s probably just ’cause we thought we should have them up there and it can be done better.

[00:15:59] Kris Ward: So now [00:16:00] with that huge awakening, oh my gosh, I don’t even know if I can formulate a thought with that huge awakening. Would that even change how you do the information, say on your homepage? We have this previous, ah, look at me, I’m grand and it has this brochure thing. So would that change E even all the other pages.

[00:16:18] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah. And I think that’s where you have to push chacha. Bt say, okay, what about just my homepage? Is there anything here I should change just on my homepage? To make sure my stuff shows up. And really to your point, it’s almost, I, the only reason I say FAQ, it’s the only thing that we all understand when I say ask and answer.

[00:16:32] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah. But it’s more than that. You almost have to get in the mind of people going to ChatGPT. What would they ask it to arrive at? The your company, right? And that’s why some people will tell you, oh, listicles, we say the seven things you need to know about this, that listicles are a thing in the past.

[00:16:49] Jay Schwedelson: They’re really not. Listicles are having a big moment right now because ChatGPT is looking for like list related content. They’re looking for any type of authoritative [00:17:00] statements, what are the three biggest pitfalls for whatever? Because when we go to ChatGPT, we say, what are the three biggest things I need to avoid?

[00:17:06] Jay Schwedelson: And then it finds your listicle that speaks to that topic. And it literally be like, here it is. Go right here. Yeah. So you have to almost get in the mindset, and that’s why you have to ask ChatGPT what do I need to do? It will tell you. So explicitly do these five things right now. 

[00:17:25] Kris Ward: So interesting.

[00:17:26] Kris Ward: I know for me I think I use ChatGPT, which I think they could have named differently ’cause I have to slow down every time. We’ll call it chat.

[00:17:32] Kris Ward: I use chat differently. I or I think in a room full of people, I would say I’m getting about a 60%. I use it better than most. And there’s still, every day I learn things or I go, I never thought of that.

[00:17:42] Kris Ward: I never thought of that. And I use it in a conversation. I like to talk to it more than type out. And I do find the answers are getting very expansive and they even change the tone so that sometimes chat sounds like it’s thinking and it’s got variations in its voice like it is getting humanized.

[00:17:58] Kris Ward: I’m sure if I applied myself we could have [00:18:00] an argument, me and chat. Like it’s going full tilt. And it’s so interesting to me. There’s things that I, we often do this as users. I see how I’m using this as a user and all the things you said right there made perfect sense. I’ve asked it to scrape different websites or pull this out or summarize a book ’cause I wanna make a point or a client is giving me pushback on something and I read this book.

[00:18:20] Kris Ward: Can you bring up some salient points again? ’cause I wanna nail, I wanna tie down this position I have, right? But yet then I don’t think of me, people looking for my stuff, right? Because we do get academic with our words. When we talk about things we’re doing, ’cause we think they’re good SEO words, but are they words that now people are gonna talk into? Chat is very different than the SEO words. We all know we type and talk differently.

[00:18:46] Jay Schwedelson: A hundred percent. And and to your point, and another easy one for everybody out there, people aren’t doing this is you. People don’t realize you could send chatGPT on missions. Yeah. Meaning that they think it’s very content based.

[00:18:59] Jay Schwedelson: Like how do I [00:19:00] write this better for me, whatever. But you can send ChatGPT onto the internet to go look for things. So for example, what do let’s say you said, hey, ChatGPT, these are three other companies that I compete with or that are in my category that are similar to me. Here are their URLs.

[00:19:13] Jay Schwedelson: Okay. And here’s the URL for my company. Can you make me a table that shows, all of their pricing, the industries that they serve, their unique selling proposition, everything that my site though is different than theirs. How do I stand out against them? You can send it on a mission saying here’s all these URLs to check out.

[00:19:30] Jay Schwedelson: How do I compare? Whatever. And it will blow your mind. What it gives you back. Yeah. It is not this one way street. Even if like gifting, I go on all the time. I’ll be like, okay, I have a friend loves eighties, heavy metal. Alright. And then I wanna give ’em a gift for under $50. What should I buy this person?

[00:19:48] Jay Schwedelson: Gimme the URLs, the websites, the actual things that I should buy with all the specifics. Send it onto the internet to find this stuff and then bring you back links information, whatever. Stop just saying. Help me [00:20:00] write a newsletter.

[00:20:00] Kris Ward: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s an exciting time to be in business.

[00:20:05] Kris Ward: Every day you just go oh, yeah. Wow. And just so you know, when I don’t think I’m a, I don’t know. I’m not a great human being because. Now you sit there and you ask chat something and you’re like, oh my gosh, I have been waiting four seconds for this very 

[00:20:20] Kris Ward: I wanted to scrape all my competitors’ websites. And then it says, hold on a minute. And you’re like, oh, who has the time?

[00:20:26] Jay Schwedelson: And I think people are intimidated by AI and what they punt on it, meaning that they’re like it’s scary. It’s, I don’t understand it. I’m not an expert.

[00:20:33] Jay Schwedelson: There are experts out there. Here’s the, I think that’s such a load of garbage. When Malcolm Gladwell years ago got the 10,000 hours you have to do something for 10,000 hours to be an expert crap into the universe, which he has since backpedaled on. It was such a disservice to humanity because people think that they need to be, become an expert in something to be able to do anything.

[00:20:51] Jay Schwedelson: It just couldn’t be further from the truth. If you spend hours for a one week, I promise you, you will know more about [00:21:00] AI than 99% of people on Earth, okay? And we can’t be scared of AI. It’s not going anywhere. I remember when Amazon first started, nobody wanted to give their credit card number because I’m never gonna give my credit card number.

[00:21:12] Jay Schwedelson: I’m not gonna give that and buy something online. It wasn’t going anywhere, right? You could be scared all you want, but you’re gonna scare yourself outta business, and you can be an expert. For free in a matter of hours. So I think everyone needs to stop getting intimidated by AI 

[00:21:29] Kris Ward: Yeah. I mean that I wanna apologize, but you just sound like grandma and grandpa on the porch when you push back on AI.

[00:21:35] Kris Ward: You know what? It’s here. And it, and also I would argue too, not to get, go down a side road here. There’s been all kinds of things that have been AI for years. We just didn’t call it AI. Like it just wasn’t so blatantly AI. But I think to the bigger point, I think back to tying it down to your expertise of marketing and how good you are at that.

[00:21:55] Kris Ward: Really anything in business and life, and especially marketing, [00:22:00] it’s only as good as the questions you ask. 

[00:22:02] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah.

[00:22:03] Kris Ward: And that determine, the questions you ask, determine the answers you get, right? Totally. Yes. And that’s where. We really lean into your zone of genius and your ability to go, okay, let’s look at this from a marketing position.

[00:22:16] Kris Ward: Let’s ask different questions. Let’s ask deeper questions. And and then the tool happens to be chat. But I think it ties back again to how powerful and really poignant your conversation about marketing is and how it rises above the noise because it’s so specific. And it’s always something that I think personally, we always reenergizes me about marketing instead of it being this big heavy blanket that yes, we have to think about it all the time.

[00:22:42] Kris Ward: It’s very important. Every company needs it, blah, blah, blah. It’s like talking about health and fitness when somebody says, Hey, do this. You really feel good in five minutes, or You should be healthy for your grandchildren, right?

[00:22:53] Jay Schwedelson: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:53] Kris Ward: And so again, I think it’s, the questions you ask determine the answers, and that’s where just in the last 15 minutes [00:23:00] alone has given us so much that we can take away from just from here.

[00:23:04] Jay Schwedelson: No, that’s amazing. I appreciate that. And in general, especially if you’re a small business owner out there good is more than good. Meaning just get it out the door, just hit send, just post on social media. Who cares? It wasn’t great, didn’t do great onto the next don’t sit there and try to make whatever it is that you’re working on.

[00:23:21] Jay Schwedelson: Be perfect. ’cause it’s a waste of your, it’s a time suck and it doesn’t matter. Yeah. And the other thing is people are like I don’t know how to set up a really sophisticated test ab this. Who cares? Send it out. Or whatever you’re doing. Did it do okay? Did it do better than last time? It did.

[00:23:35] Jay Schwedelson: Great Win. Move forward. Live in the art of the possible because everybody tries to make marketing sound so complicated. ’cause they’re trying to make themselves sound more important. It’s not that complicated. It’s just do it. Just get it out the door. 

[00:23:49] Kris Ward: Yeah. And I know back in my rookie days where I would try to get something so right, ’cause I thought it made me look professional.

[00:23:54] Kris Ward: I was trying to look polished and I’d see something in very condescending judgment online. I’d go, oh my [00:24:00] gosh, we’re gonna make ours look so much better. Meanwhile, they’re cranking up dollars and getting customers and clients and we’re by ourselves fussing, right? But, and I always lend itself to, and I give Chat as an example, saying, look, the biggest companies in the world, the software companies put out flawed products and say, yeah, we know it’s not working here.

[00:24:17] Kris Ward: Help us out. We will give it to you for free for a little bit. Oh, now it’s working. We’ll start charging you a little. We’ll start charging more. But we know that it’s clunky. We, they tell us it’s not gonna work, and yet they get it out the door. So if it’s good enough for them, it’s gotta be good enough for us. You’re right, marketing is a process, not an end result. 

[00:24:34] Jay Schwedelson: I love that. A hundred percent. 

[00:24:35] Kris Ward: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, Jay, where can people find more of your brilliance? 

[00:24:41] Jay Schwedelson: So let’s see. First off, I do have a podcast called Do This, Not That. If you wanna check it out, it is just a lot, it’s a fire hose and so please check that out. That would be amazing.

[00:24:49] Kris Ward: And when you listen, be ready and able to take notes. Okay, lemme try. It is not a passive sport. You must participate. 

[00:24:56] Jay Schwedelson: I appreciate that. And then I share a lot of garbage on LinkedIn. [00:25:00] I’m there and I’m now sharing garbage on Instagram. So it’s my full name at Jay Schwedelson. And if you want to get to my, I have a couple different companies, but just go to jayschwedelson.com and you’ll see my whole universe and would love to connect, love connecting with everybody, and it’s an honor to be on the show.

[00:25:17] Kris Ward: Oh my gosh, we’re thrilled to have you. Please make sure to share this show with a business buddy. There is a ton of takeaways here. Do not have them banging around by themselves. Alright, everyone else, we will see you in the next episode. Jay, thank you so much.

[00:25:31] Jay Schwedelson: Thank you.